From jwind at gmx.de  Mon Jan  1 06:18:02 2007
From: jwind at gmx.de (=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Wind?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 03:18:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP_SELF problems
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380612291205r205a5c7dy48d9de2acaf24e10@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45913339.30800@qualityadvantages.com> <459177A1.3040305@php.net>
	<8d9a42800612261411n20af36eat3c5246ff51eb0b7b@mail.gmail.com>
	<200612261751.33246.jellicle@gmail.com>
	<45953E8C.4040703@phpwerx.net>
	<c5949a380612291205r205a5c7dy48d9de2acaf24e10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8112979.post@talk.nabble.com>


>I have not really followed this discussion, but when i see something like
this:
>"$_SERVER['SCRIPT_NAME'] will contain the full _filesystem_ path,
>which is not what we're after."
>
>Can you just do a 1 line regex and pull out what you need? And you are all
set.
>
>:-) ed 

no need for regex here, a simple  basename($_SERVER['SCRIPT_NAME']) will do 
Happy New Year!
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Holiday-Greetings-to-Everyone...-tf2882582.html#a8112979
Sent from the NYPHP-Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jwind at gmx.de  Mon Jan  1 06:26:07 2007
From: jwind at gmx.de (=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Wind?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 03:26:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP_SELF problems
In-Reply-To: <4598688F.2030607@qualityadvantages.com>
References: <45913339.30800@qualityadvantages.com> <459177A1.3040305@php.net>
	<8d9a42800612261411n20af36eat3c5246ff51eb0b7b@mail.gmail.com>
	<200612261751.33246.jellicle@gmail.com>
	<45953E8C.4040703@phpwerx.net> <20061229184144.GA27704@panix.com>
	<4598688F.2030607@qualityadvantages.com>
Message-ID: <8113012.post@talk.nabble.com>




mikesz at qualityadvantages.com wrote:
> 
> Daniel Convissor wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, Dec 29, 2006 at 11:13:00AM -0500, Dan Cech wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>I'm not 100% sure what the solution to this problem is.  Right now the
>>>only thing I can think of is to try and figure out the common part of
>>>PHP_SELF and SCRIPT_NAME, so as to drop both the extra filesystem info
>>>and any url garbage, but that seems pretty fragile to me.
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>I always use the __FILE__ constant.  Can't be touched by user input.  The 
>>basename() and dirname() are handy to use along with it.
>>
>>--Dan
>>
>>  
>>
> Hey Dan,
> 
> thanks for the tip. I have an app I work on that has about a hundred of 
> these:
> 
> <form action="<? echo $_SERVER['PHP_SELF']; ?>" method=post>
> 
> so using your technique it would change to :
> 
> <form action="<? echo basename(__FILE__); ?>" method=post>
> 
> is this what you mean?
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree that in this and most other form applications, 
> you don't need to expose this variable to user input and would (and 
> will) happily replace all of them in my application for better security.
> 
> Thanks in advanced, mikesz
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 
but beware: if basename(__FILE__) is used in an include file you'll get the
name of that include file.
what you may want is probably the name of the running script: 
basename($_SERVER['SCRIPT_NAME'])

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Holiday-Greetings-to-Everyone...-tf2882582.html#a8113012
Sent from the NYPHP-Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Jan  1 10:38:31 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:38:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP_SELF problems
In-Reply-To: <8112979.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <45913339.30800@qualityadvantages.com>
	<459177A1.3040305@php.net>	<8d9a42800612261411n20af36eat3c5246ff51eb0b7b@mail.gmail.com>	<200612261751.33246.jellicle@gmail.com>	<45953E8C.4040703@phpwerx.net>	<c5949a380612291205r205a5c7dy48d9de2acaf24e10@mail.gmail.com>
	<8112979.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <45992AF7.60102@phpwerx.net>

J?rgen Wind wrote:
>> I have not really followed this discussion, but when i see something like
> this:
>> "$_SERVER['SCRIPT_NAME'] will contain the full _filesystem_ path,
>> which is not what we're after."
>>
>> Can you just do a 1 line regex and pull out what you need? And you are all
> set.
>> :-) ed 
> 
> no need for regex here, a simple  basename($_SERVER['SCRIPT_NAME']) will do 
> Happy New Year!

As I outlined earlier in this thread, this will _not_ work if php is
running as a cgi, you'll get 'php4-cgi' instead of 'myfilename.php'
unless you have cgi.fix_pathinfo set to 1 (default is 0).

Your previous comment regarding the fact that __FILE__ will give the
name of the file it is placed in rather than the requested file is
perfectly valid and worth keeping in mind.

I'm starting to wonder whether the construct

<form action="?" method="post">

might be a simple secure way of getting around the requirement of having
something in the action field.  That doesn't help with the problem of
correctly and securely generating the root-relative URL of a script however.

Dan




From jwind at gmx.de  Mon Jan  1 11:35:42 2007
From: jwind at gmx.de (=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Wind?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 08:35:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP_SELF problems
In-Reply-To: <45992AF7.60102@phpwerx.net>
References: <45913339.30800@qualityadvantages.com> <459177A1.3040305@php.net>
	<8d9a42800612261411n20af36eat3c5246ff51eb0b7b@mail.gmail.com>
	<200612261751.33246.jellicle@gmail.com>
	<45953E8C.4040703@phpwerx.net>
	<c5949a380612291205r205a5c7dy48d9de2acaf24e10@mail.gmail.com>
	<8112979.post@talk.nabble.com> <45992AF7.60102@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <8114735.post@talk.nabble.com>



Dan Cech wrote:
> 
> 
> As I outlined earlier in this thread, this will _not_ work if php is
> running as a cgi, you'll get 'php4-cgi' instead of 'myfilename.php'
> unless you have cgi.fix_pathinfo set to 1 (default is 0).
> 
> Your previous comment regarding the fact that __FILE__ will give the
> name of the file it is placed in rather than the requested file is
> perfectly valid and worth keeping in mind.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder whether the construct
> 
> <form action="?" method="post">
> 
> might be a simple secure way of getting around the requirement of having
> something in the action field.  That doesn't help with the problem of
> correctly and securely generating the root-relative URL of a script
> however.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 

sorry for not remembering that earlier post of yours.
i never had problems with forms without any "action" field at all, 
although someone stated that it was "undefined" - at least it is better than
$PHP_SELF ;)
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Holiday-Greetings-to-Everyone...-tf2882582.html#a8114735
Sent from the NYPHP-Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jwind at gmx.de  Mon Jan  1 11:56:18 2007
From: jwind at gmx.de (=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Wind?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 08:56:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP_SELF problems
In-Reply-To: <45992AF7.60102@phpwerx.net>
References: <45913339.30800@qualityadvantages.com> <459177A1.3040305@php.net>
	<8d9a42800612261411n20af36eat3c5246ff51eb0b7b@mail.gmail.com>
	<200612261751.33246.jellicle@gmail.com>
	<45953E8C.4040703@phpwerx.net>
	<c5949a380612291205r205a5c7dy48d9de2acaf24e10@mail.gmail.com>
	<8112979.post@talk.nabble.com> <45992AF7.60102@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <8114887.post@talk.nabble.com>




Dan Cech wrote:
> 
> As I outlined earlier in this thread, this will _not_ work if php is
> running as a cgi, you'll get 'php4-cgi' instead of 'myfilename.php'
> unless you have cgi.fix_pathinfo set to 1 (default is 0).
> 
> Your previous comment regarding the fact that __FILE__ will give the
> name of the file it is placed in rather than the requested file is
> perfectly valid and worth keeping in mind.
> ---8<---
> Dan
> 
i wonder what  basename($_SERVER['PHP_SELF']) does on a CGI system,
from php running as module i get the filename only (w/o path and
QUERY_STRING)
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Holiday-Greetings-to-Everyone...-tf2882582.html#a8114887
Sent from the NYPHP-Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Jan  1 12:40:08 2007
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:40:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP_SELF problems
In-Reply-To: <45992AF7.60102@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <00b901c72dcb$e1ba1c30$6d0aa8c0@MobileZ>



Dan Cech wrote on Monday, January 01, 2007 10:39 AM:
> J?rgen Wind wrote:
> > > I have not really followed this discussion, but when i see
> > > something like this: "$_SERVER['SCRIPT_NAME'] will contain the
> > > full _filesystem_ path, 
> > > which is not what we're after."
> > > 
> > > Can you just do a 1 line regex and pull out what you need? And
> > > you are all set. :-) ed
> > 
> > no need for regex here, a simple  basename($_SERVER['SCRIPT_NAME'])
> > will do Happy New Year!

This is akin to what I do.

> As I outlined earlier in this thread, this will _not_ work if php is
> running as a cgi, you'll get 'php4-cgi' instead of 'myfilename.php'
> unless you have cgi.fix_pathinfo set to 1 (default is 0).

I think there's two important sides to this discussion.

In the larger more complex applications, it's vital that paths/URLs be
dynamically generated and understood.  Like most complex applications, there
are some environmental constraints - one of which is a properly configured
PHP running as an Apache DSO.  Thus I use a combination of SCRIPT_NAME and
other URL/filesystem variables to determine how to write out and read in
URLS/paths/etc.

For simpler application, you're likely running in an environment that isn't
always known, or that can change - ie, shared hosting with a prepackaged CMS
system of some sort.  In such cases, maybe it is possible to always use
hardwired filenames, etc..  I know that's what I did for my first
application :)

In a similar context, there's and always exciting flame war on NYLUG
regarding PHP security:

http://www.nylug.org/pipermail/nylug-talk/2006-December/thread.html

And search for PHP Security.

They're also looking to deploy Joomla for their next release of
www.nylug.org


Happy New Year everyone - to a good 2007!

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com





From ken at secdat.com  Tue Jan  2 16:39:03 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:39:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Need HTML expert for quick job
Message-ID: <459AD0F7.5080307@secdat.com>

Hi folks,

I have a graphic design that I am very happy with.  As I am more of a 
database guy, I need an HTML guru who can convert it into something 
compatible with both Firefox and IE.

The job is simple, if you look at my current site: www.secdat.com, it 
basically works except I need the height of the table to stretch to 
100%, even if the content does not go down that far.  Of course it would 
scroll if it does go over.

I'm happy to pay for a re-coding of the HTML to make it clean and 
perfect if somebody out there knows what to do.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070102/cc96404a/attachment.vcf>

From rolan at omnistep.com  Tue Jan  2 16:58:36 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:58:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Need HTML expert for quick job
In-Reply-To: <459AD0F7.5080307@secdat.com>
References: <459AD0F7.5080307@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <459AD58C.9000807@omnistep.com>

replace line #2
<table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
with
<table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%">

~Rolan
Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I have a graphic design that I am very happy with.  As I am more of a 
> database guy, I need an HTML guru who can convert it into something 
> compatible with both Firefox and IE.
>
> The job is simple, if you look at my current site: www.secdat.com, it 
> basically works except I need the height of the table to stretch to 
> 100%, even if the content does not go down that far.  Of course it 
> would scroll if it does go over.
>
> I'm happy to pay for a re-coding of the HTML to make it clean and 
> perfect if somebody out there knows what to do.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Jan  2 17:07:49 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:07:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Need HTML expert for quick job
In-Reply-To: <459AD58C.9000807@omnistep.com>
References: <459AD0F7.5080307@secdat.com> <459AD58C.9000807@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <459AD7B5.1060904@optonline.net>

as well as replacing line #24
height: 118px;
in your CSS file with:
 height: 75px;

Rolan Yang wrote:
> replace line #2
> <table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
> with
> <table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%">
>
> ~Rolan
> Kenneth Downs wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I have a graphic design that I am very happy with.  As I am more of a 
>> database guy, I need an HTML guru who can convert it into something 
>> compatible with both Firefox and IE.
>>
>> The job is simple, if you look at my current site: www.secdat.com, it 
>> basically works except I need the height of the table to stretch to 
>> 100%, even if the content does not go down that far.  Of course it 
>> would scroll if it does go over.
>>
>> I'm happy to pay for a re-coding of the HTML to make it clean and 
>> perfect if somebody out there knows what to do.
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


From ken at secdat.com  Tue Jan  2 17:29:57 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:29:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Need HTML expert for quick job
In-Reply-To: <459AD58C.9000807@omnistep.com>
References: <459AD0F7.5080307@secdat.com> <459AD58C.9000807@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <459ADCE5.8050505@secdat.com>

Rolan Yang wrote:
> replace line #2
> <table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
> with
> <table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%">

This does not work on IE 6.  The top TD element ends up measuring about 
135px, leaving a blank band.

>
> ~Rolan
> Kenneth Downs wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I have a graphic design that I am very happy with.  As I am more of a 
>> database guy, I need an HTML guru who can convert it into something 
>> compatible with both Firefox and IE.
>>
>> The job is simple, if you look at my current site: www.secdat.com, it 
>> basically works except I need the height of the table to stretch to 
>> 100%, even if the content does not go down that far.  Of course it 
>> would scroll if it does go over.
>>
>> I'm happy to pay for a re-coding of the HTML to make it clean and 
>> perfect if somebody out there knows what to do.
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070102/9b44c8ee/attachment.vcf>

From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Jan  2 17:44:14 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:44:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Need HTML expert for quick job
In-Reply-To: <459ADCE5.8050505@secdat.com>
References: <459AD0F7.5080307@secdat.com> <459AD58C.9000807@omnistep.com>
	<459ADCE5.8050505@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <459AE03E.4010903@optonline.net>

follow that as well as my fix, and you'll be good as gold :)


Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Rolan Yang wrote:
>> replace line #2
>> <table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
>> with
>> <table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%">
>
> This does not work on IE 6.  The top TD element ends up measuring 
> about 135px, leaving a blank band.
>
>>
>> ~Rolan
>> Kenneth Downs wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I have a graphic design that I am very happy with.  As I am more of 
>>> a database guy, I need an HTML guru who can convert it into 
>>> something compatible with both Firefox and IE.
>>>
>>> The job is simple, if you look at my current site: www.secdat.com, 
>>> it basically works except I need the height of the table to stretch 
>>> to 100%, even if the content does not go down that far.  Of course 
>>> it would scroll if it does go over.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to pay for a re-coding of the HTML to make it clean and 
>>> perfect if somebody out there knows what to do.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date: 1/1/2007 2:50 PM
>   


From ken at secdat.com  Tue Jan  2 20:05:53 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:05:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Need HTML expert for quick job
In-Reply-To: <459AE03E.4010903@optonline.net>
References: <459AD0F7.5080307@secdat.com>
	<459AD58C.9000807@omnistep.com>	<459ADCE5.8050505@secdat.com>
	<459AE03E.4010903@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <459B0171.700@secdat.com>

Donald J Organ IV wrote:
> follow that as well as my fix, and you'll be good as gold :)

Hmm, I tried setting the height of the top row to 83 px (through 
trial-and-error) and that worked in IE, but then the top banner was 
clipped in firefox.


>
>
> Kenneth Downs wrote:
>> Rolan Yang wrote:
>>> replace line #2
>>> <table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
>>> with
>>> <table id="table_wrapper" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" 
>>> height="100%">
>>
>> This does not work on IE 6.  The top TD element ends up measuring 
>> about 135px, leaving a blank band.
>>
>>>
>>> ~Rolan
>>> Kenneth Downs wrote:
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> I have a graphic design that I am very happy with.  As I am more of 
>>>> a database guy, I need an HTML guru who can convert it into 
>>>> something compatible with both Firefox and IE.
>>>>
>>>> The job is simple, if you look at my current site: www.secdat.com, 
>>>> it basically works except I need the height of the table to stretch 
>>>> to 100%, even if the content does not go down that far.  Of course 
>>>> it would scroll if it does go over.
>>>>
>>>> I'm happy to pay for a re-coding of the HTML to make it clean and 
>>>> perfect if somebody out there knows what to do.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>>
>>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>   
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date: 
>> 1/1/2007 2:50 PM
>>   
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070102/e6d84cec/attachment.vcf>

From skyline at publicmine.com  Tue Jan  2 21:56:26 2007
From: skyline at publicmine.com (Ben Sgro (sk))
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 21:56:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Based Ecommerce solutions
Message-ID: <032101c72ee2$c477f170$6401a8c0@gamebox>

Hello all and happy new year!

I'm looking to construct an ecommerce store and since I prefer working with 
php/mySQL
are there any packages that you all have had experiance with and can 
recommend?

Also something, that if need be, I can get under the hood off (php/mysql 
related)?

Thanks again!

- Ben 



From nyphp at dynamicink.com  Wed Jan  3 11:05:06 2007
From: nyphp at dynamicink.com (Dynamic Ink)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 08:05:06 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Based Ecommerce solutions
References: <032101c72ee2$c477f170$6401a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <002a01c72f50$f25d2bf0$0401a8c0@e6300>

Check out the Ultimate Shopping Cart in August & September 2004 PHP 
Architect magazine.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Sgro (sk)" <skyline at publicmine.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 6:56 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Based Ecommerce solutions


> Hello all and happy new year!
>
> I'm looking to construct an ecommerce store and since I prefer working 
> with php/mySQL
> are there any packages that you all have had experiance with and can 
> recommend?
>
> Also something, that if need be, I can get under the hood off (php/mysql 
> related)?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> - Ben
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> 



From brandywhine2007 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 17:49:17 2007
From: brandywhine2007 at yahoo.com (Brandy Whine)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:49:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] multi-part form without refresh - point me to a
	working solution?
Message-ID: <304803.76627.qm@web59101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone. You have all helped me as a lurker for almost a year, but now my PHP has advanced a bit and I need to ask a specific question if that's ok. I don't know AJAX but I think I need it now.

I have a multipart form to build.  I need some parts to appear conditional on the data entered in prior parts. Right now, it's very specific:

offer a text box. It will grow from here I am sure, but for now it's just "if text box is filled, offer part B if not, offer part C".

Since I want to "save" the content of the text field that was entered, no matter what they do with the following (optional) form parts, do I need an ajax solution? And if so, can someone point me to working code I can start with as a noob on this topic, so I can learn as I use it?

Thanks again for all the help. You guys rock.

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070103/cdc79a39/attachment.html>

From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Wed Jan  3 18:10:13 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:10:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] multi-part form without refresh - point me to a
	working solution?
In-Reply-To: <304803.76627.qm@web59101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <304803.76627.qm@web59101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0701031510h1a7e49a2g2758a2c00ca11ab5@mail.gmail.com>

well, to save it, you will have to use Ajax, to save the content even if it
wasn't added.
your saying, if text box A isn't filled, then text box B should be filled,
and if neither are filled in then text box C must be filled in, then some
sort of error will come?
and also, this is working, on through the users browser, or through the
server after the form values are put in. if it is through the users browser,
then it shud be AJAX

On 1/3/07, Brandy Whine <brandywhine2007 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone. You have all helped me as a lurker for almost a year, but now
> my PHP has advanced a bit and I need to ask a specific question if that's
> ok. I don't know AJAX but I think I need it now.
>
> I have a multipart form to build.  I need some parts to appear conditional
> on the data entered in prior parts. Right now, it's very specific:
>
> offer a text box. It will grow from here I am sure, but for now it's just
> "if text box is filled, offer part B if not, offer part C".
>
> Since I want to "save" the content of the text field that was entered, no
> matter what they do with the following (optional) form parts, do I need an
> ajax solution? And if so, can someone point me to working code I can start
> with as a noob on this topic, so I can learn as I use it?
>
> Thanks again for all the help. You guys rock.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070103/873c8798/attachment.html>

From paul at devonianfarm.com  Wed Jan  3 18:23:41 2007
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul Houle)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 18:23:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] multi-part form without refresh - point me to a
	working solution?
In-Reply-To: <304803.76627.qm@web59101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <304803.76627.qm@web59101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <459C3AFD.20205@devonianfarm.com>

Brandy Whine wrote:
> Hi everyone. You have all helped me as a lurker for almost a year, but 
> now my PHP has advanced a bit and I need to ask a specific question if 
> that's ok. I don't know AJAX but I think I need it now.
>
    You can certainly do this with Javascript;  actual AJAX,  involving 
a call to a server,  may or may not be necessary.

    It's easy to change the "display" attribute of a <div> element in 
Javascript to show or hide the element:

http://support.internetconnection.net/CODE_LIBRARY/Javascript_Show_Hide.shtml

    The idea is that you put <div> elements containing all the form 
elements that could ever be displayed on the page:  use onChange 
handlers on controlling form form elements to  "morph" the form,  say,  
somebody chooses an option from a dropdown.

    Libraries like prototype,  scriptaculous,  moo and such smooth over 
differences between broswers,   make this kind of code more 
maintainable,  and can also give you really cool effects (parts of the 
form can slide or fade in.)

    AJAX can enter if you'd like to pull information in from the web in 
the process of updating the form.  For instance,  a user might a state 
from a list of US states,  and then the page uses AJAX to populate a 
list of counties from that state.  You can accomplish the same thing,  
in this case,  by including a big array with lots of states and counties 
in the page -- it saves bandwidth to send just the counties that are needed.

---

    It's old-school,  but you can get accomplish the same aims without 
Javascript.  The idea here is to make a "wizard" interface that has more 
than one form...  Let's call them form1, form2,  and form3:

form1: asks some really basic questions that help determine what to 
display on form2
form2: asks more questions to determine what's on form3
form3: collects the last information and "submits" the form for real.

    You can pass answers from form1 into form2 by using hidden form 
variables...  Make your life easy and write a function like

function hide_variable($name,$value) {
    print "<input type=hidden name=$name 
value=".htmlspecialchars($value).">\n";
}

    I still think that most people find this kind of interface to be the 
easiest to use,  when it's designed right.






From brandywhine2007 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 18:23:03 2007
From: brandywhine2007 at yahoo.com (Brandy Whine)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:23:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] multi-part form without refresh - point me to a
	working solution?
In-Reply-To: <b05cec1c0701031510h1a7e49a2g2758a2c00ca11ab5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <287754.83826.qm@web59109.mail.re1.yahoo.com>



Nazmul Hassan <xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com> wrote: well, to save it, you will have to use Ajax, to save the content even if it wasn't added. 
your saying, if text box A isn't filled, then text box B should be filled, and if neither are filled in then text box C must be filled in, then some sort of error will come? 
and also, this is working, on through the users browser, or through the server after the form values are put in. if it is through the users browser, then it shud be AJAX
yes, it seems that inorder to save the info I need to asynchronously send it back to the server even if the browsers js is show/hiding different parts of the form. Otherwise if someone filled in part but didnt "submit" I wouldn't get data.

is that right?

I'm not much for js programming.

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070103/9d9a67e4/attachment.html>

From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Jan  3 21:53:45 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 21:53:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hola!
Message-ID: <459C6C39.4020703@cyberxdesigns.com>

Hola mi amigos!  I am back.

Hans K


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jan  3 22:04:40 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 19:04:40 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hola!
In-Reply-To: <459C6C39.4020703@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <459C6C39.4020703@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <29681-77229@sneakemail.com>

Hans C. Kaspersetz hans-at-cyberxdesigns.com |nyphp dev/internal group 
use| wrote:

> Hola mi amigos!  I am back.
>
> Hans K


Elvis is in the building.


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Jan  3 22:08:04 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:08:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hola!
In-Reply-To: <29681-77229@sneakemail.com>
References: <459C6C39.4020703@cyberxdesigns.com> <29681-77229@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <459C6F94.9000308@cyberxdesigns.com>

I thought you were giving all this up boss?

inforequest wrote:
> Hans C. Kaspersetz hans-at-cyberxdesigns.com |nyphp dev/internal group 
> use| wrote:
>
>> Hola mi amigos!  I am back.
>>
>> Hans K


From tedd at sperling.com  Thu Jan  4 00:56:09 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 00:56:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hola!
In-Reply-To: <459C6C39.4020703@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <459C6C39.4020703@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c1c247433c51@[192.168.1.101]>

At 9:53 PM -0500 1/3/07, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>Hola mi amigos!  I am back.
>

Reminds me of Happy Feet.

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From ken at secdat.com  Thu Jan  4 09:12:42 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 09:12:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
Message-ID: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>

Hi folks,

A helpful HTML guru has given me the solution to my height-dont-work 
problem in IE 6.

The guru is.... (drumroll)  Tom Melendez of LIPHP fame.  He pointed out 
that changing the document type declaration to "quirks" mode makes IE 
work, instantly fixing the problem.

For completeness, here is a simplified snipeet that illustrates the 
fixed situation:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">        
<html>
<head>
   <style>
   html, body {
      height: 100%;
      width: 100%;
      margin: 0px;
   }
   </style>
</head>
<body>
<center>
   <table cellspacing=0
          style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
   <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=red>a </td></tr>
   <tr><td>hello </td></tr>
   <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=blue>b </td></tr>
   </table>
</center>
</body>

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/5945742c/attachment.vcf>

From lk613m at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 10:16:34 2007
From: lk613m at yahoo.com (LK)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 07:16:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
Message-ID: <20070104151634.56984.qmail@web53303.mail.yahoo.com>

In this snippet I don't see where the document type is declared as "quirks" mode. What am I missing?


----- Original Message ----
From: Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2007 9:12:42 AM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....


Hi folks,

A helpful HTML guru has given me the solution to my height-dont-work 
problem in IE 6.

The guru is.... (drumroll)  Tom Melendez of LIPHP fame.  He pointed out 
that changing the document type declaration to "quirks" mode makes IE 
work, instantly fixing the problem.

For completeness, here is a simplified snipeet that illustrates the 
fixed situation:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">        
<html>
<head>
   <style>
   html, body {
      height: 100%;
      width: 100%;
      margin: 0px;
   }
   </style>
</head>
<body>
<center>
   <table cellspacing=0
          style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
   <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=red>a </td></tr>
   <tr><td>hello </td></tr>
   <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=blue>b </td></tr>
   </table>
</center>
</body>
begin:vcard
fn:Kenneth  Downs
n:Downs;Kenneth 
adr;dom:;;347 Main Street;East Setauket;NY;11733
email;internet:ken at secdat.com
tel;work:631-689-7200
tel;fax:631-689-0527
tel;cell:631-379-0010
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.secdat.com
version:2.1
end:vcard
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/07f861b5/attachment.html>

From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 10:24:45 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:24:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
In-Reply-To: <20070104151634.56984.qmail@web53303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20070104151634.56984.qmail@web53303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50701040724k47ae709odf545ed82e95f776@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, LK <lk613m at yahoo.com> wrote:

> In this snippet I don't see where the document type is declared as "quirks"
> mode. What am I missing?

Quirks mode is triggered primarily by providing an incomplete DOCTYPE
to the browser.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quirks_mode

This complete DOCTYPE for this...

> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

...is....

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From ken at secdat.com  Thu Jan  4 10:27:10 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:27:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
In-Reply-To: <20070104151634.56984.qmail@web53303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20070104151634.56984.qmail@web53303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <459D1CCE.7010500@secdat.com>

Googling "quirks mode ie doctype" brought this up as first link:

http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/


LK wrote:
> In this snippet I don't see where the document type is declared as 
> "quirks" mode. What am I missing?
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com>
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2007 9:12:42 AM
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
>
> Hi folks,
>
> A helpful HTML guru has given me the solution to my height-dont-work
> problem in IE 6.
>
> The guru is.... (drumroll)  Tom Melendez of LIPHP fame.  He pointed out
> that changing the document type declaration to "quirks" mode makes IE
> work, instantly fixing the problem.
>
> For completeness, here is a simplified snipeet that illustrates the
> fixed situation:
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">        
> <html>
> <head>
>    <style>
>    html, body {
>       height: 100%;
>       width: 100%;
>       margin: 0px;
>    }
>    </style>
> </head>
> <body>
> <center>
>    <table cellspacing=0
>           style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=red>a </td></tr>
>    <tr><td>hello </td></tr>
>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=blue>b </td></tr>
>    </table>
> </center>
> </body>
> begin:vcard
> fn:Kenneth  Downs
> n:Downs;Kenneth
> adr;dom:;;347 Main Street;East Setauket;NY;11733
> email;internet:ken at secdat.com
> tel;work:631-689-7200
> tel;fax:631-689-0527
> tel;cell:631-379-0010
> x-mozilla-html:FALSE
> url:http://www.secdat.com <http://www.secdat.com/>
> version:2.1
> end:vcard
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com <http://www.nyphpcon.com/>
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/812a7cd1/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/812a7cd1/attachment.vcf>

From willie at pdfsystems.com  Thu Jan  4 11:27:37 2007
From: willie at pdfsystems.com (willie klein)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:27:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] mysqli prepared statements
Message-ID: <EECDF5E03326984FB1DB40FA25957B2425051C@gt1u-w3kfs1.pdfkqs.local>

Hi All;

 

I just started using prepared statements.  So far I have been very
impressed by how much of a performance enhancement there is when using
them.  I have a query that isn't working now though and I'm not sure how
to troubleshoot it.  I used to just echo out the query and I could see
where the problem was.  I keep getting an empty result set from a query
I know should have data in it.  Is there a way to see the prepared query
as the server sees it?  I keep echoing out mysqli_error($dbi) but there
is nothing in it.  

 

Relevant Code:

$statement2 = $dbi->prepare("select  date, date_format(date ,' %b %d
%y') as dta from 1TrackUser where loginID = ? ORDER BY date");// if
(mysqli_error($dbi)) {

          echo "ERROR: ".mysqli_error($dbi)."<BR>"; } echo
"ShowroomLoginID = $ShowroomloginID<br>"; // something valid is here

$statement2->bind_param("s",$ShowroomloginID);        

$statement2->execute();

$statement2->bind_result($date,$dta);

$TotalLogin = $statement2->num_rows ; // always 0 when I run query
manually it works.

 

Thanks

Willie            

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/3960ab2a/attachment.html>

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 11:30:55 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:30:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hola!
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c1c247433c51@192.168.1.101>
References: <459C6C39.4020703@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<p06240806c1c247433c51@192.168.1.101>
Message-ID: <b76252690701040830m6277a510s654473da3a9c077b@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, tedd <tedd at sperling.com> wrote:
> At 9:53 PM -0500 1/3/07, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
> >Hola mi amigos!  I am back.
> >
>
> Reminds me of Happy Feet.
>
> tedd

Reminded me of Borat, actually.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 11:39:08 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:39:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Passing array elements as... strings?
Message-ID: <b76252690701040839j18397c74v4695ae4892bbde77@mail.gmail.com>

Let's say you've got an object, with a property that contains an array
with several values:

$foo->bar = array( 0=>'quiz', 1=>'quuz', 2=>'quux' );

You want to get the value of $foo->bar[1], but all you have is the
string "bar[1]" to work with (because it's a key in a submitted form),
as $key = "bar[1]";

The classic, and deeply abhorrent, way to do this is:
eval( "\$value = \$foo->$key;" );

I thought that $value = $foo->{$key} might work, but it doesn't.

Does anyone have a pattern to solve this?

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Thu Jan  4 12:04:42 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:04:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Passing array elements as... strings?
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701040839j18397c74v4695ae4892bbde77@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b76252690701040839j18397c74v4695ae4892bbde77@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070104170441.GA24334@panix.com>

On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 11:39:08AM -0500, csnyder wrote:
> 
> I thought that $value = $foo->{$key} might work, but it doesn't.

Perhaps you can split the submission into two parts?

$bar = array( 0=>'quiz', 1=>'quuz', 2=>'quux' );
$var = 'bar';
$key = 1;
echo ${$var}[$key];

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From nate at cakephp.org  Thu Jan  4 12:15:33 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:15:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Passing array elements as... strings?
In-Reply-To: <20070104163501.674EA10A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070104163501.674EA10A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <B5EB18F5-0D54-4333-A33E-34FDEEAFCBF1@cakephp.org>

Two solutions that come to mind are to (a) parse out the var name and  
the index from the string, or (b) submit the var name and the index  
as two separate POST vars.  Any reason either of those wouldn't work?

- Nate

> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:39:08 -0500
> From: csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Passing array elements as... strings?
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<b76252690701040839j18397c74v4695ae4892bbde77 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Let's say you've got an object, with a property that contains an array
> with several values:
>
> $foo->bar = array( 0=>'quiz', 1=>'quuz', 2=>'quux' );
>
> You want to get the value of $foo->bar[1], but all you have is the
> string "bar[1]" to work with (because it's a key in a submitted form),
> as $key = "bar[1]";
>
> The classic, and deeply abhorrent, way to do this is:
> eval( "\$value = \$foo->$key;" );
>
> I thought that $value = $foo->{$key} might work, but it doesn't.
>
> Does anyone have a pattern to solve this?
>
> -- 
> Chris Snyder
> http://chxo.com/



From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Jan  4 12:20:42 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:20:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HTML/CSS div hide/show form problem
Message-ID: <003101c73024$a98107b0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

Ok, so this isn't PHP, but it's what drives us PHP programmers' crazy
right - "quirks" mode, browser incompatibilities, etc. It's maddening.
 
I asked my Boston PHP buddies if they can figure this one out. Let's see
who can provide an answer first: Yankees or Red Sox:
------
I have a form that can be toggled to be visible or hidden using the
following statement:
 
<div id="inviteform" style="display:none;">
   the form... 
</div>
 
The form is initially set to be hidden. A simple JavaScript function
toggles the div display property to nothing/block or none.
 
Problem:
Without this code, the cursor appears normally in the input elements
With this code, the cursor disappears in the input elements. It's
awfully annoying to type text in an input element without the visual cue
of a cursor.
 
This occurs in FireFox, but not IE.
 
Does anyone know why the cursor is disappearing? I'm guessing that the
input element cursor attribute picks up the none property (as in
cascading) when hidden, but does not revert back to visible when the div
display element is changed back to '' or block.
 
Any ideas regarding a solution?
 
Cliff
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/b440d947/attachment.html>

From support at dailytechnology.net  Thu Jan  4 12:22:51 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:22:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CakePHP and HTTP Auth
Message-ID: <459D37EB.9030400@dailytechnology.net>

Have any of you cake-users on the list tried to password protect a 
single cake subdir (in my case, a plugin)? I got this working at one 
point, but I can't figure out how I did it. I'm currently attempting to 
pull in the Security->requireLogin() param, but it's just redirecting to 
somewhere else and not asking for authentication at all.

All I'm looking for is a simple password protect - the kind you'd use 
with a .htaccess file normally.

<rant>
By the way, this is my biggest complaint with Cake. Documentation. 
Relying on the "shotgun documentation", leaving little bits and pieces 
here and there (wiki, google groups, irc) is killing me. The more time I 
spend trying to figure out how do to something that should be relatively 
simple, the less beneficial it is for me to use Cake. It's a great 
system, but man, the documentation is horrendous.
</rant>

Thanks,
- Brian


From ken at secdat.com  Thu Jan  4 12:44:19 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:44:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HTML/CSS div hide/show form problem
In-Reply-To: <003101c73024$a98107b0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <003101c73024$a98107b0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <459D3CF3.8030806@secdat.com>

Cliff,

Can you simply set the focus of a control when the display is turned off 
or on?



Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>
> Ok, so this isn't PHP, but it's what drives us PHP programmers' crazy 
> right -- "quirks" mode, browser incompatibilities, etc. It's maddening...
>
>  
>
> I asked my Boston PHP buddies if they can figure this one out. Let's 
> see who can provide an answer first: Yankees or Red Sox:
>
> ------
>
> I have a form that can be toggled to be visible or hidden using the 
> following statement:
>
>  
>
> <div id="inviteform" style="display:none;">
>
>    the form.....
>
> </div>
>
>  
>
> The form is initially set to be hidden. A simple JavaScript function 
> toggles the div display property to nothing/block or none.
>
>  
>
> Problem:
>
> Without this code, the cursor appears normally in the input elements
>
> With this code, the cursor disappears in the input elements. It's 
> awfully annoying to type text in an input element without the visual 
> cue of a cursor.
>
>  
>
> This occurs in FireFox, but not IE.
>
>  
>
> Does anyone know why the cursor is disappearing? I'm guessing that the 
> input element cursor attribute picks up the none property (as in 
> cascading) when hidden, but does not revert back to visible when the 
> div display element is changed back to '' or block.
>
>  
>
> Any ideas regarding a solution?
>
>  
>
> Cliff
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/1c898758/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/1c898758/attachment.vcf>

From nate at cakephp.org  Thu Jan  4 13:14:20 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:14:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: CakePHP and HTTP Auth
In-Reply-To: <20070104174014.F1C8510A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070104174014.F1C8510A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <81E15C39-C631-4E0B-8A94-2F80E0BEBFDC@cakephp.org>

class PluginAppController extends AppController {

	var $components = array("Security");

	function beforeFilter() {
		$this->Security->requireLogin(array('users' => array(
			'admin' => 'admin',
			'guest' => 'guest'
		)));
		parent::beforeFilter();
	}
}

<rant>
You know, I get so sick of people ranting about Open Source projects  
as if the authors somehow owe them something.  We are three people,  
three and a half on a good day.  Some of us have social lives, and  
all of us have bills to pay.  Documentation is often a sore spot for  
OS projects, and ours certainly isn't perfect, but it is far better  
than it was, and far, far better than many other projects out there.

Also, at this point it's pretty unfair to characterize our  
documentation as so scattershot.  If you bothered to look, you'd  
notice that the wiki has been shut down, and we've created a new  
community documentation system as http://bakery.cakephp.org/ which is  
filling out quite nicely.

Furthermore, and this one goes out to anyone else not paying  
attention, SecurityComponent::requireLogin() is part of CakePHP 1.2,  
which is currently in development status, and thus neither feature- 
complete nor fully debugged.  That particular method is undocumented  
due largely to the fact that *it's not done yet*.

Finally, it's true, we are keenly aware that our documentation could  
use a little more work, but that's part of why we're an Open Source  
project.  If you dig into a specific Cake feature, find there's no  
documentation, and learn to use it anyway, here's a novel idea: HELP  
US.  John Anderson heads up the documentation team (of one), and can  
be reached at psychic at cakephp d0t org.

Oh, and this has to be a first.  I don't think I've ever actually  
heard anyone complain about the fact that we have an IRC channel  
offering live support, which one of the core developers of the  
framework is almost always on.
</rant>

Thanks,
- Nate
Core Developer, CakePHP

> Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:22:51 -0500
> From: Brian Dailey <support at dailytechnology.net>
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] CakePHP and HTTP Auth
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID: <459D37EB.9030400 at dailytechnology.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Have any of you cake-users on the list tried to password protect a
> single cake subdir (in my case, a plugin)? I got this working at one
> point, but I can't figure out how I did it. I'm currently  
> attempting to
> pull in the Security->requireLogin() param, but it's just  
> redirecting to
> somewhere else and not asking for authentication at all.
>
> All I'm looking for is a simple password protect - the kind you'd use
> with a .htaccess file normally.
>
> <rant>
> By the way, this is my biggest complaint with Cake. Documentation.
> Relying on the "shotgun documentation", leaving little bits and pieces
> here and there (wiki, google groups, irc) is killing me. The more  
> time I
> spend trying to figure out how do to something that should be  
> relatively
> simple, the less beneficial it is for me to use Cake. It's a great
> system, but man, the documentation is horrendous.
> </rant>
>
> Thanks,
> - Brian



From rotsen at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 13:16:31 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:16:31 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
Message-ID: <a304e2d60701041016h4c68f1a7kb85a931b59e5c0a0@mail.gmail.com>

People,

I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.

I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file does not
exist, but the file does exist.

What function should I use to check for existance of a file
on a different web server???

Thanks,

N?stor :-)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/4fa9cbd4/attachment.html>

From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jan  4 13:27:05 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:27:05 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: CakePHP and HTTP Auth
In-Reply-To: <81E15C39-C631-4E0B-8A94-2F80E0BEBFDC@cakephp.org>
References: <20070104174014.F1C8510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<81E15C39-C631-4E0B-8A94-2F80E0BEBFDC@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <8378-41228@sneakemail.com>

Nate Abele nate-at-cakephp.org |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> <rant>
> You know, I get so sick of people ranting about Open Source projects  
> as if the authors somehow owe them something.  We are three people,  
> three and a half on a good day.

Wow, thanks for the reminder, Nate.

I don't mean to speak for the guy who criticized the Cake docs, but with 
something as good as Cake, I would never have assumed it was 3 people. I 
would have imagined a team of contributors from around the world, etc. 
I'm pretty sure that when a PHP learner writes to a PHP talk list about 
Cake, he's not cognitive about the community being a benevolent handful 
of people (might have something to do with the branding of Open Source a 
few years ago... it was all about many eyes on code, frequent 
contributions from many people, etc).

Anyway nice work 1) contributing an answer inside of 1 hour and 8 
minutes and 2) reminding everybody of just how fragile this great PHP 
world is.

Everybody can ask themselves: when's the last time you contributed to an 
open source effort (such as docs) and isn't it time to contribute some more?

-=john andrews

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From jface at mercenarylabs.com  Thu Jan  4 13:34:19 2007
From: jface at mercenarylabs.com (Jonathan Face)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:34:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60701041016h4c68f1a7kb85a931b59e5c0a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60701041016h4c68f1a7kb85a931b59e5c0a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <459D48AB.9020709@mercenarylabs.com>

I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might try 
out:
 file_exists($url);

N?stor wrote:

> People,
>
> I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
>
> I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file does not
> exist, but the file does exist.
>
> What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> on a different web server???
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 13:39:36 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:39:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60701041016h4c68f1a7kb85a931b59e5c0a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60701041016h4c68f1a7kb85a931b59e5c0a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701041039n5e53fcc4m76febff9e7e41c07@mail.gmail.com>

well . . .

I assume you can 100% of the time see this file in your browser -- so
it must exist. It's pretty easy to confuse web paths with file paths
too. I would start looking at that.

url?

:-) ed

On 1/4/07, N?stor <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> People,
>
> I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
>
> I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file does not
> exist, but the file does exist.
>
> What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> on a different web server???
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From dirn at dirnonline.com  Thu Jan  4 13:39:54 2007
From: dirn at dirnonline.com (Andy Dirnberger)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:39:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <459D48AB.9020709@mercenarylabs.com>
Message-ID: <005901c7302f$ba4c30a0$b365a8c0@andyabs>

There are a few url_exists functions in the manual:
http://us3.php.net/file_exists

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Face
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:34 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server

I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might try 
out:
 file_exists($url);

N?stor wrote:

> People,
>
> I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
>
> I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file does not
> exist, but the file does exist.
>
> What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> on a different web server???
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From support at dailytechnology.net  Thu Jan  4 13:39:54 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:39:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: CakePHP and Documentation
In-Reply-To: <81E15C39-C631-4E0B-8A94-2F80E0BEBFDC@cakephp.org>
References: <20070104174014.F1C8510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<81E15C39-C631-4E0B-8A94-2F80E0BEBFDC@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <459D49FA.1040206@dailytechnology.net>

I'll reply to the HTTP auth question in a separate thread...

I'm aware of the Bakery, but thus far I've been unable to use it to find 
effectual answers to questions I've had about the project.

I realize you don't "owe" anyone anything, and I apologize that I 
perhaps implied that. I realize you're busy fellows and your life 
doesn't revolve around Cake.

(Additionally, I'm not complaining about IRC... I'm just saying that 
some sort of documentation should be the *first* place I should find 
help - IRC should be *last*. You'd probably agree with that yourself.)

That said, I've been using Cake for about a year now, I think, and it's 
by far the best php framework I've employed. Period. So kudos to you and 
the other two-and-a-half guys. :P My complaint was perhaps mistaken as a 
whine, but it's really just me venting frustration. I'm not blaming you, 
or any other participant in the Cake team.

"Finally, it's true, we are keenly aware that our documentation could 
use a little more work..."

Great, then we agree. :)

In the future, I will attempt to be more aware of areas that I may be 
able to contribute to the project.

- Brian

Nate Abele wrote:
> class PluginAppController extends AppController {
> 
>     var $components = array("Security");
> 
>     function beforeFilter() {
>         $this->Security->requireLogin(array('users' => array(
>             'admin' => 'admin',
>             'guest' => 'guest'
>         )));
>         parent::beforeFilter();
>     }
> }
> 
> <rant>
> You know, I get so sick of people ranting about Open Source projects as 
> if the authors somehow owe them something.  We are three people, three 
> and a half on a good day.  Some of us have social lives, and all of us 
> have bills to pay.  Documentation is often a sore spot for OS projects, 
> and ours certainly isn't perfect, but it is far better than it was, and 
> far, far better than many other projects out there.
> 
> Also, at this point it's pretty unfair to characterize our documentation 
> as so scattershot.  If you bothered to look, you'd notice that the wiki 
> has been shut down, and we've created a new community documentation 
> system as http://bakery.cakephp.org/ which is filling out quite nicely.
> 
> Furthermore, and this one goes out to anyone else not paying attention, 
> SecurityComponent::requireLogin() is part of CakePHP 1.2, which is 
> currently in development status, and thus neither feature-complete nor 
> fully debugged.  That particular method is undocumented due largely to 
> the fact that *it's not done yet*.
> 
> Finally, it's true, we are keenly aware that our documentation could use 
> a little more work, but that's part of why we're an Open Source 
> project.  If you dig into a specific Cake feature, find there's no 
> documentation, and learn to use it anyway, here's a novel idea: HELP 
> US.  John Anderson heads up the documentation team (of one), and can be 
> reached at psychic at cakephp d0t org.
> 
> Oh, and this has to be a first.  I don't think I've ever actually heard 
> anyone complain about the fact that we have an IRC channel offering live 
> support, which one of the core developers of the framework is almost 
> always on.
> </rant>
> 
> Thanks,
> - Nate
> Core Developer, CakePHP
> 
>> Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:22:51 -0500
>> From: Brian Dailey <support at dailytechnology.net>
>> Subject: [nycphp-talk] CakePHP and HTTP Auth
>> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>> Message-ID: <459D37EB.9030400 at dailytechnology.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Have any of you cake-users on the list tried to password protect a
>> single cake subdir (in my case, a plugin)? I got this working at one
>> point, but I can't figure out how I did it. I'm currently attempting to
>> pull in the Security->requireLogin() param, but it's just redirecting to
>> somewhere else and not asking for authentication at all.
>>
>> All I'm looking for is a simple password protect - the kind you'd use
>> with a .htaccess file normally.
>>
>> <rant>
>> By the way, this is my biggest complaint with Cake. Documentation.
>> Relying on the "shotgun documentation", leaving little bits and pieces
>> here and there (wiki, google groups, irc) is killing me. The more time I
>> spend trying to figure out how do to something that should be relatively
>> simple, the less beneficial it is for me to use Cake. It's a great
>> system, but man, the documentation is horrendous.
>> </rant>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> - Brian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 


From tom at supertom.com  Thu Jan  4 14:00:30 2007
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:00:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Passing array elements as... strings?
In-Reply-To: <B5EB18F5-0D54-4333-A33E-34FDEEAFCBF1@cakephp.org>
References: <20070104163501.674EA10A806D@cakephp.org>
	<B5EB18F5-0D54-4333-A33E-34FDEEAFCBF1@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <117286890701041100p2e6d517fj13edefbbabce8433@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
> Two solutions that come to mind are to (a) parse out the var name and
> the index from the string, or (b) submit the var name and the index
> as two separate POST vars.  Any reason either of those wouldn't work?

That's what I came up with too.
$key = "bar[1]";
preg_match("/(.*)\[(\d)\]/",$key,$m);
$name=$m[1];
$index=$m[2];
$myarray=$foo->$name;
print $myarray[$index];

Very interested in other solutions.  If bar comes in as an array (like
$_POST[bar][1]) you could probably use array_keys to suck out keys,
although I haven't tried it.

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


From rotsen at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 14:00:43 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:00:43 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <005901c7302f$ba4c30a0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
References: <459D48AB.9020709@mercenarylabs.com>
	<005901c7302f$ba4c30a0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60701041100vbdc30fahcd39ef28850f14ae@mail.gmail.com>

I have tried all of those and they return false weather the file is exist
and is readable or not
I have tried file_exists()
                stat()
                is_readable()

Wow, I never thought that this would be a problem.....

Thanks,

N?stor :-)

On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger <dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:
>
> There are a few url_exists functions in the manual:
> http://us3.php.net/file_exists
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Face
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:34 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
>
> I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might try
> out:
> file_exists($url);
>
> N?stor wrote:
>
> > People,
> >
> > I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> > and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
> >
> > I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file does
> not
> > exist, but the file does exist.
> >
> > What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> > on a different web server???
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > N?stor :-)
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> >NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> >http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> >Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> >http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/2090070c/attachment.html>

From tom at supertom.com  Thu Jan  4 14:06:55 2007
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:06:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60701041100vbdc30fahcd39ef28850f14ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459D48AB.9020709@mercenarylabs.com>
	<005901c7302f$ba4c30a0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
	<a304e2d60701041100vbdc30fahcd39ef28850f14ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <117286890701041106l3ef5980fidc72072aa23aaff1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi N?stor,

What happens if you do a basic fopen on the file (assuming that
allow_open_url is set to On in php.ini)?

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


On 1/4/07, N?stor <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have tried all of those and they return false weather the file is exist
> and is readable or not
> I have tried file_exists()
>                 stat()
>                 is_readable()
>
> Wow, I never thought that this would be a problem.....
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
> On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger <dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:
> > There are a few url_exists functions in the manual:
> > http://us3.php.net/file_exists
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Face
> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:34 PM
> > To: NYPHP Talk
> > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
> >
> > I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might try
> > out:
> > file_exists($url);
> >
> > N?stor wrote:
> >
> > > People,
> > >
> > > I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> > > and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
> > >
> > > I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file does
> not
> > > exist, but the file does exist.
> > >
> > > What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> > > on a different web server???
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > N?stor :-)
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > >NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > >Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > >http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 14:16:06 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:16:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60701041100vbdc30fahcd39ef28850f14ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459D48AB.9020709@mercenarylabs.com>
	<005901c7302f$ba4c30a0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
	<a304e2d60701041100vbdc30fahcd39ef28850f14ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701041116h26149019q6bd72ef958f3aaca@mail.gmail.com>

What's the url?

On 1/4/07, N?stor <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have tried all of those and they return false weather the file is exist
> and is readable or not
> I have tried file_exists()
>                 stat()
>                 is_readable()
>
> Wow, I never thought that this would be a problem.....
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
> On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger <dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:
> > There are a few url_exists functions in the manual:
> > http://us3.php.net/file_exists
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Face
> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:34 PM
> > To: NYPHP Talk
> > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
> >
> > I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might try
> > out:
> > file_exists($url);
> >
> > N?stor wrote:
> >
> > > People,
> > >
> > > I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> > > and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
> > >
> > > I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file does
> not
> > > exist, but the file does exist.
> > >
> > > What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> > > on a different web server???
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > N?stor :-)
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > >NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > >Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > >http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From rotsen at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 14:18:54 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:18:54 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <117286890701041106l3ef5980fidc72072aa23aaff1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459D48AB.9020709@mercenarylabs.com>
	<005901c7302f$ba4c30a0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
	<a304e2d60701041100vbdc30fahcd39ef28850f14ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<117286890701041106l3ef5980fidc72072aa23aaff1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60701041118n4ed16b57j81992c25619b45cf@mail.gmail.com>

Tom,

I had just tried this and it works but it makes the entire web page very
slow to render.
See the page that I am dealing with needs to do this check in several
places.

One thing is that you need to use the fopen() with an '@' to suppress
warnings when
the file does not exist.

The fopen() fixes my problem but it is slow rendering. I will try to find
another solution.

Thanks,

n?stor :-)

On 1/4/07, Tom Melendez <tom at supertom.com> wrote:
>
> Hi N?stor,
>
> What happens if you do a basic fopen on the file (assuming that
> allow_open_url is set to On in php.ini)?
>
> Tom
> http://www.liphp.org
>
>
> On 1/4/07, N?stor <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have tried all of those and they return false weather the file is
> exist
> > and is readable or not
> > I have tried file_exists()
> >                 stat()
> >                 is_readable()
> >
> > Wow, I never thought that this would be a problem.....
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > N?stor :-)
> >
> > On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger <dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:
> > > There are a few url_exists functions in the manual:
> > > http://us3.php.net/file_exists
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:
> talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Face
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:34 PM
> > > To: NYPHP Talk
> > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
> > >
> > > I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might
> try
> > > out:
> > > file_exists($url);
> > >
> > > N?stor wrote:
> > >
> > > > People,
> > > >
> > > > I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> > > > and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
> > > >
> > > > I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file
> does
> > not
> > > > exist, but the file does exist.
> > > >
> > > > What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> > > > on a different web server???
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > N?stor :-)
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > >
> > > >NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > > >
> > > >Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > >http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/11925c0e/attachment.html>

From rotsen at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 14:21:17 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:21:17 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60701041118n4ed16b57j81992c25619b45cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459D48AB.9020709@mercenarylabs.com>
	<005901c7302f$ba4c30a0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
	<a304e2d60701041100vbdc30fahcd39ef28850f14ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<117286890701041106l3ef5980fidc72072aa23aaff1@mail.gmail.com>
	<a304e2d60701041118n4ed16b57j81992c25619b45cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60701041121t3ab0c85aje2d758559cb33657@mail.gmail.com>

It is an internal intranet page and I am accessing word(.doc) or pdf files
that are open when I type the url on the address bar on my browser.

:-)

On 1/4/07, N?stor <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> I had just tried this and it works but it makes the entire web page very
> slow to render.
> See the page that I am dealing with needs to do this check in several
> places.
>
> One thing is that you need to use the fopen() with an '@' to suppress
> warnings when
> the file does not exist.
>
> The fopen() fixes my problem but it is slow rendering. I will try to find
> another solution.
>
> Thanks,
>
> n?stor :-)
>
> On 1/4/07, Tom Melendez <tom at supertom.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi N?stor,
> >
> > What happens if you do a basic fopen on the file (assuming that
> > allow_open_url is set to On in php.ini)?
> >
> > Tom
> > http://www.liphp.org
> >
> >
> > On 1/4/07, N?stor < rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I have tried all of those and they return false weather the file is
> > exist
> > > and is readable or not
> > > I have tried file_exists()
> > >                 stat()
> > >                 is_readable()
> > >
> > > Wow, I never thought that this would be a problem.....
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > N?stor :-)
> > >
> > > On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger < dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:
> > > > There are a few url_exists functions in the manual:
> > > > http://us3.php.net/file_exists
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:
> > talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Jonathan Face
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:34 PM
> > > > To: NYPHP Talk
> > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
> > > >
> > > > I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might
> > try
> > > > out:
> > > > file_exists($url);
> > > >
> > > > N?stor wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > People,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> > > > > and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
> > > > >
> > > > > I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file
> > does
> > > not
> > > > > exist, but the file does exist.
> > > > >
> > > > > What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> > > > > on a different web server???
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > N?stor :-)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > > >
> > > > >NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > > > >
> > > > >Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > > >http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > >
> > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > > >
> > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > >
> > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > > >
> > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/b290c3da/attachment.html>

From enolists at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 14:23:04 2007
From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:23:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] sendmail and php mail
Message-ID: <cea129a00701041123u4160325apa8b1b748f2d6459e@mail.gmail.com>

Happy 2007, everyone.

I know this isn't directly a php, issue, but I was hoping someone here might
have some experience with such a thing.

My client has their site on one server and their their email server at
another hosting company.  I'm trying to send mail from a php script (using
the mail function) on the site.

I know sendmail is working correctly, as I can send email to my own domain
as well as to any other I've tried.  This only applies to sending email
internally.

Sendmail has a recipient check.  Basically, it talks to the recipient's
server and checks that the user exists before trying to send the message.
Unfortunately, since the hosting server has the same domain name as the mail
server.

** Here's the php:

$aHeaders = array();
$aHeaders[] = 'From: ' . EMAIL_DONATIONS;
$aHeaders[] = 'X-Mailer: PHP v' . phpversion();

$sSubject = 'New Donation Submitted';
$sMessage = 'A new donation has been submitted through the site.';
mail(EMAIL_DONATIONS, $sSubject, $sMessage, implode("\n", $aHeaders), '-v');




** Here's the verbose output of sendmail (with my domain in place of the
client's)

TheRecipient at enobrev.com... Connecting to localhost.localdomain. via relay...
220 ss07.shared.server-system.net ESMTP Sendmail
8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:09:10 -0800
>>> EHLO laco.org
250-ss07.shared.server-system.net Hello localhost.localdomain
[127.0.0.1], pleased to meet you
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-PIPELINING
250-8BITMIME
250-SIZE 15000000
250-DSN
250-ETRN
250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
250-STARTTLS
250-DELIVERBY
250 HELP
>>> STARTTLS
220 2.0.0 Ready to start TLS
>>> EHLO enobrev.com
250-ss07.shared.server-system.net Hello localhost.localdomain
[127.0.0.1], pleased to meet you
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-PIPELINING
250-8BITMIME
250-SIZE 15000000
250-DSN
250-ETRN
250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
250-DELIVERBY
250 HELP
>>> MAIL From:<enobrev at enobrev.com> SIZE=300 AUTH=enobrev at enobrev.com
250 2.1.0 <enobrev at enobrev.com>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT To:<TheRecipient at enobrev.com>
>>> DATA
550 5.1.1 <TheRecipient at enobrev.com>... User unknown
503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)
>>> RSET
250 2.0.0 Reset state
dead.letter... Saved message in dead.letter
Closing connection to localhost.localdomain.
>>> QUIT
221 2.0.0 ss07.shared.server-system.net closing connection



Now, I know for a fact the recipient's email exists on my client's mail
server (which is an exchange server).  The only thing I can figure is that
it's checking the local host for the recipient and not finding it, and hence
never sending the email.

Anybody ever run into this before?  Is there a switch i can use with php's
mail function or sendmail to get around this?

Thanks!!

Mark Armendariz
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/36f893bb/attachment.html>

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 14:24:47 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:24:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60701041118n4ed16b57j81992c25619b45cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459D48AB.9020709@mercenarylabs.com>
	<005901c7302f$ba4c30a0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
	<a304e2d60701041100vbdc30fahcd39ef28850f14ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<117286890701041106l3ef5980fidc72072aa23aaff1@mail.gmail.com>
	<a304e2d60701041118n4ed16b57j81992c25619b45cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701041124m788ef375k8c29faac509beb75@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, N?stor <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I had just tried this and it works but it makes the entire web page very
> slow to render.
> See the page that I am dealing with needs to do this check in several
> places.
>
> One thing is that you need to use the fopen() with an '@' to suppress
> warnings when
> the file does not exist.

The page will render particularly slowly if the other webserver goes
down, as each fopen() call will take around 30 seconds to time out.
You're right to look for another solution.

If the URLs don't change very often, you could write a quick cron
script to check for them every now and then, and update a local file
or database.

If they _do_ change a lot, then you will need to write (or find)
checking routines that make HTTP HEAD requests via fsockopen(). Not
only is HEAD more efficient then GET, but fsockopen() can be set to
have very short timeouts in case the server is unreachable or not
answering quickly.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From dirn at dirnonline.com  Thu Jan  4 14:26:52 2007
From: dirn at dirnonline.com (Andy Dirnberger)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:26:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60701041121t3ab0c85aje2d758559cb33657@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006f01c73036$4a8f6ff0$b365a8c0@andyabs>

If the server is on a local network, are you able to access the files
through the network?  Something like file_exists
(?\\sharename\path\to\file?)

 

  _____  

From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of N?stor
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:21 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server

 

It is an internal intranet page and I am accessing word(.doc) or pdf files
that are open when I type the url on the address bar on my browser.

:-)

On 1/4/07, N?stor <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:

Tom,

I had just tried this and it works but it makes the entire web page very
slow to render.
See the page that I am dealing with needs to do this check in several
places.

One thing is that you need to use the fopen() with an '@' to suppress
warnings when 
the file does not exist.

The fopen() fixes my problem but it is slow rendering. I will try to find
another solution.

Thanks,

n?stor :-)

 

On 1/4/07, Tom Melendez <tom at supertom.com> wrote:

Hi N?stor,

What happens if you do a basic fopen on the file (assuming that
allow_open_url is set to On in php.ini)?

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


On 1/4/07, N?stor < rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have tried all of those and they return false weather the file is exist
> and is readable or not
> I have tried file_exists()
>                 stat() 
>                 is_readable()
>
> Wow, I never thought that this would be a problem.....
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
> On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger < dirn at dirnonline.com
<mailto:dirn at dirnonline.com> > wrote:
> > There are a few url_exists functions in the manual:
> > http://us3.php.net/file_exists
> >
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:
<mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org>  talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Face 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:34 PM
> > To: NYPHP Talk
> > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
> >
> > I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might try

> > out:
> > file_exists($url);
> >
> > N?stor wrote:
> >
> > > People,
> > >
> > > I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server 
> > > and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
> > >
> > > I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file does
> not
> > > exist, but the file does exist. 
> > >
> > > What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> > > on a different web server???
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > N?stor :-) 
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > >NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online 
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > >Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
<http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php>  
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk 
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > 
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online 
> http://www.nyphpcon.com  <http://www.nyphpcon.com> 
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php 
>
>
_______________________________________________ 
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk 

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php 





 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/59aadb15/attachment.html>

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 14:34:10 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:34:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] sendmail and php mail
In-Reply-To: <cea129a00701041123u4160325apa8b1b748f2d6459e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cea129a00701041123u4160325apa8b1b748f2d6459e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701041134w684ecca9n8dd2af974af57b25@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, Mark Armendariz <enolists at gmail.com> wrote:

> Now, I know for a fact the recipient's email exists on my client's mail
> server (which is an exchange server).  The only thing I can figure is that
> it's checking the local host for the recipient and not finding it, and hence
> never sending the email.

There might be an MX record missing or incorrect, and/or sendmail on
the php server is misconfigured into thinking that it's supposed to be
the end-recipient of mail for the domain.

When you say you can send mail from the server, you're using the mail
command? Have you looked to see what mail command PHP is configured to
use? You never know, maybe there is more than one on the box...

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From rotsen at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 14:43:44 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:43:44 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <006f01c73036$4a8f6ff0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
References: <a304e2d60701041121t3ab0c85aje2d758559cb33657@mail.gmail.com>
	<006f01c73036$4a8f6ff0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60701041143s3fc9e0bcved9a0c1c13ce139e@mail.gmail.com>

file_exists() still returns false when using the local network name

 Thanks,

N?stor :-)

On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger <dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:
>
>  If the server is on a local network, are you able to access the files
> through the network?  Something like file_exists
> ("\\sharename\path\to\file")
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> *On Behalf Of *N?stor
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:21 PM
> *To:* NYPHP Talk
> *Subject:* Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
>
>
>
> It is an internal intranet page and I am accessing word(.doc) or pdf files
> that are open when I type the url on the address bar on my browser.
>
> :-)
>
> On 1/4/07, *N?stor* <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> I had just tried this and it works but it makes the entire web page very
> slow to render.
> See the page that I am dealing with needs to do this check in several
> places.
>
> One thing is that you need to use the fopen() with an '@' to suppress
> warnings when
> the file does not exist.
>
> The fopen() fixes my problem but it is slow rendering. I will try to find
> another solution.
>
> Thanks,
>
> n?stor :-)
>
>
>
> On 1/4/07, *Tom Melendez* <tom at supertom.com> wrote:
>
> Hi N?stor,
>
> What happens if you do a basic fopen on the file (assuming that
> allow_open_url is set to On in php.ini)?
>
> Tom
> http://www.liphp.org
>
>
> On 1/4/07, N?stor < rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have tried all of those and they return false weather the file is
> exist
> > and is readable or not
> > I have tried file_exists()
> >                 stat()
> >                 is_readable()
> >
> > Wow, I never thought that this would be a problem.....
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > N?stor :-)
> >
> > On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger < dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:
> > > There are a few url_exists functions in the manual:
> > > http://us3.php.net/file_exists
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
> ]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Face
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:34 PM
> > > To: NYPHP Talk
> > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
> > >
> > > I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might
> try
> > > out:
> > > file_exists($url);
> > >
> > > N?stor wrote:
> > >
> > > > People,
> > > >
> > > > I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> > > > and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
> > > >
> > > > I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file
> does
> > not
> > > > exist, but the file does exist.
> > > >
> > > > What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> > > > on a different web server???
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > N?stor :-)
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > >
> > > >NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > > >
> > > >Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/623eda6e/attachment.html>

From enolists at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 15:11:24 2007
From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:11:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Passing array elements as... strings?
In-Reply-To: <117286890701041100p2e6d517fj13edefbbabce8433@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070104163501.674EA10A806D@cakephp.org>
	<B5EB18F5-0D54-4333-A33E-34FDEEAFCBF1@cakephp.org>
	<117286890701041100p2e6d517fj13edefbbabce8433@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cea129a00701041211y601d2005kaec06fd14f48b43c@mail.gmail.com>

decided to play with this a bit.  first time i've ever found myself using
variable variables.  dunno if it helps at all, but here's what i came up
with (4.4.1, but should apply anywhere).  it seems you can't access the
array values directly, but copying it works.  You could also use var vars
for object properties instead if you wanted to go that route.  It seems to
me this could be nested as deeply as necessary as well.

<?php
    include_once 'base/function.debug.php';
    dbg($_POST, 'Post Array');

    class foo {
        function foo() {}
    }

    $foo = new foo;
    $foo->bar = array( 0=>'quiz', 1=>'quuz', 2=>'quux' );

    // loop through our posted vars
    foreach(array_keys($_POST) as $sObject) {
        // if we've posted an object, open'r up
        if (is_object($$sObject)) {
            dbg($$sObject, $sObject);

            foreach($_POST[$sObject] as $sProperty => $mValue) {
                // print out the property - boo, which is an array
                dbg($$sObject->$sProperty, $sObject . '->' . $sProperty);

                // try showing the array's value
                dbg($$sObject->$sProperty[$mValue], 'Direct Access - throws
error');

                // now copy the array and then show it
                $theArray = $$sObject->$sProperty;
                dbg($theArray[$mValue], 'Copied Array - should work');
            }
        }
    }
?>

<form method="post">
    <?php foreach($foo->bar as $mValue => $sDisplay) { ?>
        <label for="foo_bar_<?= $mValue ?>">
            <input type="radio"
                   name="foo[bar]"
                   value="<?= $mValue ?>"
                   id="foo_bar_<?= $mValue ?>"
                   <?= ($mValue == $_POST['foo']['bar']) ?
'checked="checked"' : '' ?> /> <?= $sDisplay ?>
        </label><br />
    <?php } ?>
    <input type="submit" />
</form>



and my debug function:

<?php
function dbg($mVar, $sTitle = '') {
        $sReturn = '';

        if (strlen($sTitle)) {
            $sReturn .= $sTitle .= ': ';
        }

        $sReturn .= '<pre>' . print_r($mVar, 1) . '</pre>';
}
?>


On 1/4/07, Tom Melendez <tom at supertom.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/4/07, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
> > Two solutions that come to mind are to (a) parse out the var name and
> > the index from the string, or (b) submit the var name and the index
> > as two separate POST vars.  Any reason either of those wouldn't work?
>
> That's what I came up with too.
> $key = "bar[1]";
> preg_match("/(.*)\[(\d)\]/",$key,$m);
> $name=$m[1];
> $index=$m[2];
> $myarray=$foo->$name;
> print $myarray[$index];
>
> Very interested in other solutions.  If bar comes in as an array (like
> $_POST[bar][1]) you could probably use array_keys to suck out keys,
> although I haven't tried it.
>
> Tom
> http://www.liphp.org
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/c8b9a626/attachment.html>

From enolists at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 15:17:20 2007
From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:17:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Passing array elements as... strings?
In-Reply-To: <cea129a00701041211y601d2005kaec06fd14f48b43c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070104163501.674EA10A806D@cakephp.org>
	<B5EB18F5-0D54-4333-A33E-34FDEEAFCBF1@cakephp.org>
	<117286890701041100p2e6d517fj13edefbbabce8433@mail.gmail.com>
	<cea129a00701041211y601d2005kaec06fd14f48b43c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cea129a00701041217u3a3f6e74i786cf90f95980b7b@mail.gmail.com>

oh, and here's my output after choosing 'quux' (with the error truncated -
also added note by *'s)

Post Array: Array
(
    [foo] => Array
        (
            [bar] => 2
        )

)
foo: foo Object
(
    [bar] => Array
        (
            [0] => quiz
            [1] => quuz
            [2] => quux
        )

)
foo->bar: Array
(
    [0] => quiz
    [1] => quuz
    [2] => quux
)


Notice: Undefined property: r on line 18
***** foo->bar[2] == 'Array' so foo->bar[2] == 'r'? ***

Direct Access - throws error:

Copied Array - should work: quux




On 1/4/07, Mark Armendariz <enolists at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> decided to play with this a bit.  first time i've ever found myself using
> variable variables.  dunno if it helps at all, but here's what i came up
> with (4.4.1, but should apply anywhere).  it seems you can't access the
> array values directly, but copying it works.  You could also use var vars
> for object properties instead if you wanted to go that route.  It seems to
> me this could be nested as deeply as necessary as well.
>
> <?php
>     include_once 'base/function.debug.php';
>     dbg($_POST, 'Post Array');
>
>     class foo {
>         function foo() {}
>     }
>
>     $foo = new foo;
>     $foo->bar = array( 0=>'quiz', 1=>'quuz', 2=>'quux' );
>
>     // loop through our posted vars
>     foreach(array_keys($_POST) as $sObject) {
>         // if we've posted an object, open'r up
>         if (is_object($$sObject)) {
>             dbg($$sObject, $sObject);
>
>             foreach($_POST[$sObject] as $sProperty => $mValue) {
>                 // print out the property - boo, which is an array
>                 dbg($$sObject->$sProperty, $sObject . '->' . $sProperty);
>
>                 // try showing the array's value
>                 dbg($$sObject->$sProperty[$mValue], 'Direct Access -
> throws error');
>
>                 // now copy the array and then show it
>                 $theArray = $$sObject->$sProperty;
>                 dbg($theArray[$mValue], 'Copied Array - should work');
>             }
>         }
>     }
> ?>
>
> <form method="post">
>     <?php foreach($foo->bar as $mValue => $sDisplay) { ?>
>         <label for="foo_bar_<?= $mValue ?>">
>             <input type="radio"
>                    name="foo[bar]"
>                    value="<?= $mValue ?>"
>                    id="foo_bar_<?= $mValue ?>"
>                    <?= ($mValue == $_POST['foo']['bar']) ?
> 'checked="checked"' : '' ?> /> <?= $sDisplay ?>
>         </label><br />
>     <?php } ?>
>     <input type="submit" />
> </form>
>
>
>
> and my debug function:
>
> <?php
> function dbg($mVar, $sTitle = '') {
>         $sReturn = '';
>
>         if (strlen($sTitle)) {
>             $sReturn .= $sTitle .= ': ';
>         }
>
>         $sReturn .= '<pre>' . print_r($mVar, 1) . '</pre>';
> }
> ?>
>
>
> On 1/4/07, Tom Melendez <tom at supertom.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 1/4/07, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
> > > Two solutions that come to mind are to (a) parse out the var name and
> > > the index from the string, or (b) submit the var name and the index
> > > as two separate POST vars.  Any reason either of those wouldn't work?
> >
> > That's what I came up with too.
> > $key = "bar[1]";
> > preg_match("/(.*)\[(\d)\]/",$key,$m);
> > $name=$m[1];
> > $index=$m[2];
> > $myarray=$foo->$name;
> > print $myarray[$index];
> >
> > Very interested in other solutions.  If bar comes in as an array (like
> > $_POST[bar][1]) you could probably use array_keys to suck out keys,
> > although I haven't tried it.
> >
> > Tom
> > http://www.liphp.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/77b39ad4/attachment.html>

From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Jan  4 15:25:43 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:25:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HTML/CSS div hide/show form problem
In-Reply-To: <459D3CF3.8030806@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <004701c7303e$82a81e70$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

Figured this one out, so I'll pass it along. Apparently it is a well
documented FireFox bug. Input elements can lose the cursor when inside a
div that is set to display:none, among other conditions. When the div is
set to be visible again, the cursor is simply gone - way annoying.
 
The workaround I used, which appears to work so far, is to set the focus
to some input element outside the div before setting the div display
property to none. This appears to "carry" the cursor to the focused
element. Then, when I expand the div again, I set the focus to an input
element inside the div.
 
Cliff
 
-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:44 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] HTML/CSS div hide/show form problem
 
Cliff,

Can you simply set the focus of a control when the display is turned off
or on? 



Cliff Hirsch wrote: 
Ok, so this isn't PHP, but it's what drives us PHP programmers' crazy
right - "quirks" mode, browser incompatibilities, etc. It's maddening.
 
I asked my Boston PHP buddies if they can figure this one out. Let's see
who can provide an answer first: Yankees or Red Sox:
------
I have a form that can be toggled to be visible or hidden using the
following statement:
 
<div id="inviteform" style="display:none;">
   the form... 
</div>
 
The form is initially set to be hidden. A simple JavaScript function
toggles the div display property to nothing/block or none.
 
Problem:
Without this code, the cursor appears normally in the input elements
With this code, the cursor disappears in the input elements. It's
awfully annoying to type text in an input element without the visual cue
of a cursor.
 
This occurs in FireFox, but not IE.
 
Does anyone know why the cursor is disappearing? I'm guessing that the
input element cursor attribute picks up the none property (as in
cascading) when hidden, but does not revert back to visible when the div
display element is changed back to '' or block.
 
Any ideas regarding a solution?
 
Cliff
 





  _____  



 
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
 
NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com
 
Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/105e013d/attachment.html>

From enolists at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 15:26:38 2007
From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:26:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] sendmail and php mail
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701041134w684ecca9n8dd2af974af57b25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cea129a00701041123u4160325apa8b1b748f2d6459e@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690701041134w684ecca9n8dd2af974af57b25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cea129a00701041226g5c3f0c40r8489ce32a52d050c@mail.gmail.com>

I'm about to ask the host to look into the MX records.  I'm convinced the
hosting server is checking the local mail server for the recipient.  Yes,
I'm using the mail command, and it looks to me (via ini) that it's using the
local sendmail.

On 1/4/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/4/07, Mark Armendariz <enolists at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Now, I know for a fact the recipient's email exists on my client's mail
> > server (which is an exchange server).  The only thing I can figure is
> that
> > it's checking the local host for the recipient and not finding it, and
> hence
> > never sending the email.
>
> There might be an MX record missing or incorrect, and/or sendmail on
> the php server is misconfigured into thinking that it's supposed to be
> the end-recipient of mail for the domain.
>
> When you say you can send mail from the server, you're using the mail
> command? Have you looked to see what mail command PHP is configured to
> use? You never know, maybe there is more than one on the box...
>
> --
> Chris Snyder
> http://chxo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/0d5d178f/attachment.html>

From enolists at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 15:48:06 2007
From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:48:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Passing array elements as... strings?
In-Reply-To: <cea129a00701041211y601d2005kaec06fd14f48b43c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070104163501.674EA10A806D@cakephp.org>
	<B5EB18F5-0D54-4333-A33E-34FDEEAFCBF1@cakephp.org>
	<117286890701041100p2e6d517fj13edefbbabce8433@mail.gmail.com>
	<cea129a00701041211y601d2005kaec06fd14f48b43c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cea129a00701041248t28319288na63f817eb3749b1b@mail.gmail.com>

sorry, skipped a line in the dbg function:


>
> and my debug function:
>
> <?php
> function dbg($mVar, $sTitle = '') {
>         $sReturn = '';
>
>         if (strlen($sTitle)) {
>             $sReturn .= $sTitle .= ': ';
>         }
>
>         $sReturn .= '<pre>' . print_r($mVar, 1) . '</pre>';

            echo $sReturn;  // <--------- This line


}
> ?>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/8fb06dbe/attachment.html>

From support at dailytechnology.net  Thu Jan  4 15:53:59 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:53:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HTML/CSS div hide/show form problem
In-Reply-To: <004701c7303e$82a81e70$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <004701c7303e$82a81e70$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <459D6967.1060909@dailytechnology.net>

The inverse of this (which I've run into a few times) is that if you 
start out with the layer as "block" and then set it to "none", when the 
user is tabbing down, the cursor will go to these "invisible" fields.

Annoying as heck, it is.

- Brian

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> Figured this one out, so I?ll pass it along. Apparently it is a well 
> documented FireFox bug. Input elements can lose the cursor when inside a 
> div that is set to display:none, among other conditions. When the div is 
> set to be visible again, the cursor is simply gone ? way annoying.
> 
>  
> 
> The workaround I used, which appears to work so far, is to set the focus 
> to some input element outside the div before setting the div display 
> property to none. This appears to ?carry? the cursor to the focused 
> element. Then, when I expand the div again, I set the focus to an input 
> element inside the div.
> 
>  
> 
> Cliff
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org 
> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] *On Behalf Of *Kenneth Downs
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:44 PM
> *To:* NYPHP Talk
> *Subject:* Re: [nycphp-talk] HTML/CSS div hide/show form problem
> 
>  
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> Can you simply set the focus of a control when the display is turned off 
> or on?
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> 
> Ok, so this isn?t PHP, but it?s what drives us PHP programmers? crazy 
> right ? ?quirks? mode, browser incompatibilities, etc. It?s maddening?
> 
>  
> 
> I asked my Boston PHP buddies if they can figure this one out. Let?s see 
> who can provide an answer first: Yankees or Red Sox:
> 
> ------
> 
> I have a form that can be toggled to be visible or hidden using the 
> following statement:
> 
>  
> 
> <div id="inviteform" style="display:none;">
> 
>    the form?..
> 
> </div>
> 
>  
> 
> The form is initially set to be hidden. A simple JavaScript function 
> toggles the div display property to nothing/block or none.
> 
>  
> 
> Problem:
> 
> Without this code, the cursor appears normally in the input elements
> 
> With this code, the cursor disappears in the input elements. It?s 
> awfully annoying to type text in an input element without the visual cue 
> of a cursor.
> 
>  
> 
> This occurs in FireFox, but not IE.
> 
>  
> 
> Does anyone know why the cursor is disappearing? I?m guessing that the 
> input element cursor attribute picks up the none property (as in 
> cascading) when hidden, but does not revert back to visible when the div 
> display element is changed back to ?? or block.
> 
>  
> 
> Any ideas regarding a solution?
> 
>  
> 
> Cliff
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
>  
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> 
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
>  
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> 
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 16:19:44 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:19:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hi
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0701041319ycc421c1md262cec94eaa15ce@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, well, im new here.

Well, I just wanted to know a little more about NYPHP i guess. im only 14;
just a question, how old are you?

I do know PHP tho, and i have coded stuff in the past, one project i worked
on the vacation http://www.nhassan.sveit.com/dual_database/dd.zip

its very amature, but yeh.

-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/d8698338/attachment.html>

From willie at pdfsystems.com  Thu Jan  4 16:38:46 2007
From: willie at pdfsystems.com (William Klein)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:38:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] mysqli prepared statements
In-Reply-To: <EECDF5E03326984FB1DB40FA25957B2425051C@gt1u-w3kfs1.pdfkqs.local>
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1363003644.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

Well I figured this out but I can't explain why it works.

This statement is in a while loop, which is why I was using prepared
statements to begin with.  I have another prepared statement which should
only have 1 record in the result, I'm searching on a unique primary key.
However when I do a $statement1->fetch() the second statement doesn't work.
When I put the first result into a while loop 
While($statement1->fetch()){
	Echo"showroom is $showroom<BR>";
}

The second statement executes fine.

Now would anyone know why this would be? 

________________________________________
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of willie klein
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:28 AM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] mysqli prepared statements

Hi All;

I just started using prepared statements.? So far I have been very impressed
by how much of a performance enhancement there is when using them.? I have a
query that isn?t working now though and I?m not sure how to troubleshoot
it.? I used to just echo out the query and I could see where the problem
was.? I keep getting an empty result set from a query I know should have
data in it.? Is there a way to see the prepared query as the server sees
it?? I keep echoing out mysqli_error($dbi) but there is nothing in it.? 

Relevant Code:
$statement2 = $dbi->prepare("select? date, date_format(date ,' %b %d %y') as
dta from 1TrackUser where loginID = ? ORDER BY date");// if
(mysqli_error($dbi)) {
????? ??? echo "ERROR: ".mysqli_error($dbi)."<BR>"; } echo "ShowroomLoginID
= $ShowroomloginID<br>"; // something valid is here
$statement2->bind_param("s",$ShowroomloginID);??????? 
$statement2->execute();
$statement2->bind_result($date,$dta);
$TotalLogin = $statement2->num_rows ; // always 0 when I run query manually
it works.

Thanks
Willie??????????? 





From rotsen at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 18:13:47 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:13:47 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60701041143s3fc9e0bcved9a0c1c13ce139e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60701041121t3ab0c85aje2d758559cb33657@mail.gmail.com>
	<006f01c73036$4a8f6ff0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
	<a304e2d60701041143s3fc9e0bcved9a0c1c13ce139e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60701041513q4586697dt7d4d1d1ae2228998@mail.gmail.com>

OK guys,

Just in case you are interested, I found a faster solution than fopen()

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<?
function url_exists($strURL) {
    $resURL = curl_init();
    curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_URL, $strURL);
    curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_BINARYTRANSFER, 1);
    curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_HEADERFUNCTION, 'curlHeaderCallback');
    curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_FAILONERROR, 1);

    curl_exec ($resURL);

    $intReturnCode = curl_getinfo($resURL, CURLINFO_HTTP_CODE);
    curl_close ($resURL);

    if ($intReturnCode != 200 && $intReturnCode != 302 && $intReturnCode !=
304) {
       return false;
    }Else{
        return true ;
    }
}

//need here because it spills all kinds of crap
ob_start();

//Usage Example :
If(url_exists("http://www.weberdev.com/addexample.php3")) {
    ob_end_clean();   // need to clean returned crap and start printing your
stuff
    Echo"URL Exists";
}Else{
    Echo"URL doesnot exist";
}
?>
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks,

N?stor :-)


On 1/4/07, N?stor <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> file_exists() still returns false when using the local network name
>
>  Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
> On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger < dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:
> >
> >  If the server is on a local network, are you able to access the files
> > through the network?  Something like file_exists
> > ("\\sharename\path\to\file")
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:
> > talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] *On Behalf Of *N?stor
> > *Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:21 PM
> > *To:* NYPHP Talk
> > *Subject:* Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
> >
> >
> >
> > It is an internal intranet page and I am accessing word(.doc) or pdf
> > files that are open when I type the url on the address bar on my browser.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > On 1/4/07, *N?stor* <rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > I had just tried this and it works but it makes the entire web page very
> > slow to render.
> > See the page that I am dealing with needs to do this check in several
> > places.
> >
> > One thing is that you need to use the fopen() with an '@' to suppress
> > warnings when
> > the file does not exist.
> >
> > The fopen() fixes my problem but it is slow rendering. I will try to
> > find another solution.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > n?stor :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/4/07, *Tom Melendez* <tom at supertom.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi N?stor,
> >
> > What happens if you do a basic fopen on the file (assuming that
> > allow_open_url is set to On in php.ini)?
> >
> > Tom
> > http://www.liphp.org
> >
> >
> > On 1/4/07, N?stor < rotsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I have tried all of those and they return false weather the file is
> > exist
> > > and is readable or not
> > > I have tried file_exists()
> > >                 stat()
> > >                 is_readable()
> > >
> > > Wow, I never thought that this would be a problem.....
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > N?stor :-)
> > >
> > > On 1/4/07, Andy Dirnberger < dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:
> > > > There are a few url_exists functions in the manual:
> > > > http://us3.php.net/file_exists
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
> > ]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Jonathan Face
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:34 PM
> > > > To: NYPHP Talk
> > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
> > > >
> > > > I haven't had a reason to experiment with this before, but you might
> > try
> > > > out:
> > > > file_exists($url);
> > > >
> > > > N?stor wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > People,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am trying to determine if a file exist in a another web server
> > > > > and if it does exist then I will display the link of the file.
> > > > >
> > > > > I tried is_readable() and stat() and they both say that the file
> > does
> > > not
> > > > > exist, but the file does exist.
> > > > >
> > > > > What function should I use to check for existance of a file
> > > > > on a different web server???
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > N?stor :-)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > > >
> > > > >NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > > > >
> > > > >Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > >
> > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > > >
> > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > >
> > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > > >
> > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/bac2f059/attachment.html>

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 18:20:06 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:20:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HTML/CSS div hide/show form problem
In-Reply-To: <459D6967.1060909@dailytechnology.net>
References: <004701c7303e$82a81e70$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<459D6967.1060909@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <b76252690701041520v7bcd0b28t1ba1607f1560a1f8@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, Brian Dailey <support at dailytechnology.net> wrote:
> The inverse of this (which I've run into a few times) is that if you
> start out with the layer as "block" and then set it to "none", when the
> user is tabbing down, the cursor will go to these "invisible" fields.
>
> Annoying as heck, it is.
>
> - Brian

Does that happen if you disable them as well?

Seems like best practice if you're hiding form fields is to disable
them too, so that they don't get submitted along with everything else.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From rolan at omnistep.com  Thu Jan  4 19:11:43 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:11:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] sendmail and php mail
In-Reply-To: <cea129a00701041123u4160325apa8b1b748f2d6459e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cea129a00701041123u4160325apa8b1b748f2d6459e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <459D97BF.3050205@omnistep.com>

 From what I gather, your web server's sendmail is intercepting the the 
email instead of routing it to the correct mail server because it has 
the same domain name as the recipient address? You need to manually 
create a rule in the sendmail to override that so it routes all email 
addressed to "@yourdomain.com" over to the correct external mail server. 
See the sendmail section of 
http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_rteoutgoing.html for an idea. It's been a 
long time since I hacked sendmail.

~Rolan




Mark Armendariz wrote:
> Happy 2007, everyone.
>
> I know this isn't directly a php, issue, but I was hoping someone here 
> might have some experience with such a thing.
>
> My client has their site on one server and their their email server at 
> another hosting company.  I'm trying to send mail from a php script 
> (using the mail function) on the site.
>
> I know sendmail is working correctly, as I can send email to my own 
> domain as well as to any other I've tried.  This only applies to 
> sending email internally.
>
> Sendmail has a recipient check.  Basically, it talks to the 
> recipient's server and checks that the user exists before trying to 
> send the message.  Unfortunately, since the hosting server has the 
> same domain name as the mail server.
>
> ** Here's the php:
>
> $aHeaders = array();
> $aHeaders[] = 'From: ' . EMAIL_DONATIONS;
> $aHeaders[] = 'X-Mailer: PHP v' . phpversion();
>
> $sSubject = 'New Donation Submitted';
> $sMessage = 'A new donation has been submitted through the site.';
> mail(EMAIL_DONATIONS, $sSubject, $sMessage, implode("\n", $aHeaders), 
> '-v');
>
>
>
> ** Here's the verbose output of sendmail (with my domain in place of 
> the client's)
> TheRecipient at enobrev.com... Connecting to localhost.localdomain. via relay...
> 220 ss07.shared.server-system.net <http://ss07.shared.server-system.net> ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:09:10 -0800
>
> >>> EHLO laco.org <http://laco.org>
> 250-ss07.shared.server-system.net <http://250-ss07.shared.server-system.net> Hello localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1 <http://127.0.0.1>
> ], pleased to meet you
> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
> 250-PIPELINING
> 250-8BITMIME
> 250-SIZE 15000000
> 250-DSN
> 250-ETRN
> 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
> 250-STARTTLS
> 250-DELIVERBY
> 250 HELP
> >>> STARTTLS
>
> 220 2.0.0 Ready to start TLS
> >>> EHLO enobrev.com <http://enobrev.com>
> 250-ss07.shared.server-system.net <http://250-ss07.shared.server-system.net> Hello localhost.localdomain [
> 127.0.0.1 <http://127.0.0.1>], pleased to meet you
> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
> 250-PIPELINING
> 250-8BITMIME
> 250-SIZE 15000000
> 250-DSN
> 250-ETRN
> 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
> 250-DELIVERBY
> 250 HELP
> >>> MAIL From:<
> enobrev at enobrev.com <mailto:enobrev at enobrev.com>> SIZE=300 AUTH=enobrev at enobrev.com <mailto:enobrev at enobrev.com>
> 250 2.1.0 <
> enobrev at enobrev.com <mailto:enobrev at enobrev.com>>... Sender ok
> >>> RCPT To:<TheRecipient at enobrev.com <http://enobrev.com>>
> >>> DATA
>
> 550 5.1.1 <TheRecipient at enobrev.com <http://enobrev.com>>... User unknown
> 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)
> >>> RSET
> 250 2.0.0 Reset state
> dead.letter..
> . Saved message in dead.letter
> Closing connection to localhost.localdomain.
> >>> QUIT
> 221 2.0.0 ss07.shared.server-system.net <http://ss07.shared.server-system.net> closing connection
>
>
> Now, I know for a fact the recipient's email exists on my client's 
> mail server (which is an exchange server).  The only thing I can 
> figure is that it's checking the local host for the recipient and not 
> finding it, and hence never sending the email.
>
> Anybody ever run into this before?  Is there a switch i can use with 
> php's mail function or sendmail to get around this?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Mark Armendariz
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From hart at saturn.med.nyu.edu  Thu Jan  4 19:36:01 2007
From: hart at saturn.med.nyu.edu (Joshua Hart)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:36:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] sendmail and php mail
In-Reply-To: <459D97BF.3050205@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <C1C307A1.48B87%hart@saturn.med.nyu.edu>


Or it is something more fundamental; PHP might not be able to forking a
process for sendmail.  I saw that on my own system (sometimes email would be
sent and sometimes not, without a whole lot of rhyme or reason). Instead
wrote a local send_mail function which uses a SMTP connection to a mail
server, and now all email goes out reliably. :)

Joshua


On 1/4/07 7:11 PM, "Rolan Yang" <rolan at omnistep.com> wrote:

>  From what I gather, your web server's sendmail is intercepting the the
> email instead of routing it to the correct mail server because it has
> the same domain name as the recipient address? You need to manually
> create a rule in the sendmail to override that so it routes all email
> addressed to "@yourdomain.com" over to the correct external mail server.
> See the sendmail section of
> http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_rteoutgoing.html for an idea. It's been a
> long time since I hacked sendmail.
> 
> ~Rolan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Armendariz wrote:
>> Happy 2007, everyone.
>> 
>> I know this isn't directly a php, issue, but I was hoping someone here
>> might have some experience with such a thing.
>> 
>> My client has their site on one server and their their email server at
>> another hosting company.  I'm trying to send mail from a php script
>> (using the mail function) on the site.
>> 
>> I know sendmail is working correctly, as I can send email to my own
>> domain as well as to any other I've tried.  This only applies to
>> sending email internally.
>> 
>> Sendmail has a recipient check.  Basically, it talks to the
>> recipient's server and checks that the user exists before trying to
>> send the message.  Unfortunately, since the hosting server has the
>> same domain name as the mail server.
>> 
>> ** Here's the php:
>> 
>> $aHeaders = array();
>> $aHeaders[] = 'From: ' . EMAIL_DONATIONS;
>> $aHeaders[] = 'X-Mailer: PHP v' . phpversion();
>> 
>> $sSubject = 'New Donation Submitted';
>> $sMessage = 'A new donation has been submitted through the site.';
>> mail(EMAIL_DONATIONS, $sSubject, $sMessage, implode("\n", $aHeaders),
>> '-v');
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ** Here's the verbose output of sendmail (with my domain in place of
>> the client's)
>> TheRecipient at enobrev.com... Connecting to localhost.localdomain. via relay...
>> 220 ss07.shared.server-system.net <http://ss07.shared.server-system.net>
>> ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:09:10 -0800
>> 
>>>>> EHLO laco.org <http://laco.org>
>> 250-ss07.shared.server-system.net <http://250-ss07.shared.server-system.net>
>> Hello localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1 <http://127.0.0.1>
>> ], pleased to meet you
>> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>> 250-PIPELINING
>> 250-8BITMIME
>> 250-SIZE 15000000
>> 250-DSN
>> 250-ETRN
>> 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
>> 250-STARTTLS
>> 250-DELIVERBY
>> 250 HELP
>>>>> STARTTLS
>> 
>> 220 2.0.0 Ready to start TLS
>>>>> EHLO enobrev.com <http://enobrev.com>
>> 250-ss07.shared.server-system.net <http://250-ss07.shared.server-system.net>
>> Hello localhost.localdomain [
>> 127.0.0.1 <http://127.0.0.1>], pleased to meet you
>> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>> 250-PIPELINING
>> 250-8BITMIME
>> 250-SIZE 15000000
>> 250-DSN
>> 250-ETRN
>> 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
>> 250-DELIVERBY
>> 250 HELP
>>>>> MAIL From:<
>> enobrev at enobrev.com <mailto:enobrev at enobrev.com>> SIZE=300
>> AUTH=enobrev at enobrev.com <mailto:enobrev at enobrev.com>
>> 250 2.1.0 <
>> enobrev at enobrev.com <mailto:enobrev at enobrev.com>>... Sender ok
>>>>> RCPT To:<TheRecipient at enobrev.com <http://enobrev.com>>
>>>>> DATA
>> 
>> 550 5.1.1 <TheRecipient at enobrev.com <http://enobrev.com>>... User unknown
>> 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)
>>>>> RSET
>> 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>> dead.letter..
>> . Saved message in dead.letter
>> Closing connection to localhost.localdomain.
>>>>> QUIT
>> 221 2.0.0 ss07.shared.server-system.net
>> <http://ss07.shared.server-system.net> closing connection
>> 
>> 
>> Now, I know for a fact the recipient's email exists on my client's
>> mail server (which is an exchange server).  The only thing I can
>> figure is that it's checking the local host for the recipient and not
>> finding it, and hence never sending the email.
>> 
>> Anybody ever run into this before?  Is there a switch i can use with
>> php's mail function or sendmail to get around this?
>> 
>> Thanks!!
>> 
>> Mark Armendariz
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> 
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php




From dcech at phpwerx.net  Thu Jan  4 20:01:27 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:01:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60701041513q4586697dt7d4d1d1ae2228998@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60701041121t3ab0c85aje2d758559cb33657@mail.gmail.com>	<006f01c73036$4a8f6ff0$b365a8c0@andyabs>	<a304e2d60701041143s3fc9e0bcved9a0c1c13ce139e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a304e2d60701041513q4586697dt7d4d1d1ae2228998@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <459DA367.2000209@phpwerx.net>

N?stor wrote:
> OK guys,
> 
> Just in case you are interested, I found a faster solution than fopen()
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've corrected some things for you:

<?
function url_exists($strURL) {
   $resURL = curl_init();
   curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_URL, $strURL);
   // return the result instead of echoing it
   curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER, 1);
   // time out after 5 seconds of no response
   curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_TIMEOUT, 5);

   $result = curl_exec ($resURL);
   if ($result === false) {
      curl_close($resURL);
      return false;
   }

   $intReturnCode = curl_getinfo($resURL, CURLINFO_HTTP_CODE);
   curl_close ($resURL);

   if ($intReturnCode != 200 && $intReturnCode != 302 && $intReturnCode !=
304) {
      return false;
   }

   return true;
}

//Usage Example :
If(url_exists("http://www.weberdev.com/addexample.php3")) {
   Echo"URL Exists";
}Else{
   Echo"URL doesnot exist";
}
?>


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Thu Jan  4 20:09:08 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:09:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] mysqli prepared statements
In-Reply-To: <20070104213912.D44CDCA9B8@mail2.panix.com>
References: <EECDF5E03326984FB1DB40FA25957B2425051C@gt1u-w3kfs1.pdfkqs.local>
	<20070104213912.D44CDCA9B8@mail2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20070105010908.GA29094@panix.com>

On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 04:38:46PM -0500, William Klein wrote:

> This statement is in a while loop, which is why I was using prepared
> statements to begin with.

You're preparing the statement before the loop, then only 
binding/executing on each loop, right?


In your reply I see there's a "?" after "select":

> $statement2 = $dbi->prepare("select? date, 
> date_format(date ,' %b %d %y') as
> dta from 1TrackUser where loginID = ? ORDER BY date");

Perhaps there's some messed up stuff in your query?

Also, the code you posted is a mess.  It looks like you wrote it in the 
email rather than copied it from a real test script.

To really debug an issue, especially if you're trying to get help 
debugging it, you need to boil down the issue to a few lines of code in an 
isolated test script that anyone can run.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From rotsen at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 20:24:28 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:24:28 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing a file in another web server
In-Reply-To: <459DA367.2000209@phpwerx.net>
References: <a304e2d60701041121t3ab0c85aje2d758559cb33657@mail.gmail.com>
	<006f01c73036$4a8f6ff0$b365a8c0@andyabs>
	<a304e2d60701041143s3fc9e0bcved9a0c1c13ce139e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a304e2d60701041513q4586697dt7d4d1d1ae2228998@mail.gmail.com>
	<459DA367.2000209@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60701041724m29131dbfkb3acded0623b90fd@mail.gmail.com>

OK Dan,

I added your suggested changes.

Thanks,

N?stor :-)

On 1/4/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
>
> N?stor wrote:
> > OK guys,
> >
> > Just in case you are interested, I found a faster solution than fopen()
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've corrected some things for you:
>
> <?
> function url_exists($strURL) {
>    $resURL = curl_init();
>    curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_URL, $strURL);
>    // return the result instead of echoing it
>    curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER, 1);
>    // time out after 5 seconds of no response
>    curl_setopt($resURL, CURLOPT_TIMEOUT, 5);
>
>    $result = curl_exec ($resURL);
>    if ($result === false) {
>       curl_close($resURL);
>       return false;
>    }
>
>    $intReturnCode = curl_getinfo($resURL, CURLINFO_HTTP_CODE);
>    curl_close ($resURL);
>
>    if ($intReturnCode != 200 && $intReturnCode != 302 && $intReturnCode !=
> 304) {
>       return false;
>    }
>
>    return true;
> }
>
> //Usage Example :
> If(url_exists("http://www.weberdev.com/addexample.php3")) {
>    Echo"URL Exists";
> }Else{
>    Echo"URL doesnot exist";
> }
> ?>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070104/8b57b9ff/attachment.html>

From willie at pdfsystems.com  Thu Jan  4 20:36:21 2007
From: willie at pdfsystems.com (William Klein)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:36:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] mysqli prepared statements
In-Reply-To: <20070105010908.GA29094@panix.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1363003644.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

Sorry about the messed up code I cut and pasted it from the script.  Seems
the format got changed after I sent it, lines got stuck together, not sure
why. I didn't paste it that way.

But yes I was preparing the statements before the loop.  Regardless I have
two questions.  

Is there a way of seeing the last query when running a prepared statement?
I guess the problem is that mysqli_info doesn't give information about
select statements

Why would a result set with one element in it need to be in a while loop to
allow the next statement to execute?

Thanks for you attention and I'll figure out the pasting problem.  Trying to
avoid HTML email.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Daniel Convissor
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:09 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: [php] Re: [nycphp-talk] mysqli prepared statements
> 
> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 04:38:46PM -0500, William Klein wrote:
> 
> > This statement is in a while loop, which is why I was using prepared
> > statements to begin with.
> 
> You're preparing the statement before the loop, then only
> binding/executing on each loop, right?
> 
> 
> In your reply I see there's a "?" after "select":
> 
> > $statement2 = $dbi->prepare("select? date,
> > date_format(date ,' %b %d %y') as
> > dta from 1TrackUser where loginID = ? ORDER BY date");
> 
> Perhaps there's some messed up stuff in your query?
> 
> Also, the code you posted is a mess.  It looks like you wrote it in the
> email rather than copied it from a real test script.
> 
> To really debug an issue, especially if you're trying to get help
> debugging it, you need to boil down the issue to a few lines of code in an
> isolated test script that anyone can run.
> 
> --Dan
> 
> --
>  T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
>             data intensive web and database programming
>                 http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
>  4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php




From greg.rundlett at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 21:46:15 2007
From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:46:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
In-Reply-To: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> A helpful HTML guru has given me the solution to my height-dont-work
> problem in IE 6.
>
> The guru is.... (drumroll)  Tom Melendez of LIPHP fame.  He pointed out
> that changing the document type declaration to "quirks" mode makes IE
> work, instantly fixing the problem.
>
> For completeness, here is a simplified snipeet that illustrates the
> fixed situation:
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> <html>
> <head>
>    <style>
>    html, body {
>       height: 100%;
>       width: 100%;
>       margin: 0px;
>    }
>    </style>
> </head>
> <body>
> <center>
>    <table cellspacing=0
>           style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=red>a </td></tr>
>    <tr><td>hello </td></tr>
>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=blue>b </td></tr>
>    </table>
> </center>
> </body>
>
>
>


I don't mean to be picky, but if you post a 'solution' then it ought
to be or attempt to be syntactically correct.  The simple snippet
above gets lazy about quoting attributes, ending semi-colons and the
type attribute is even missing from the <style> tag not to mention a
missing </html> tag.  Your point is made about doctype declarations,
but the code example would lead a newbie to believe that tag soup is
acceptable to 'gurus'.  All I had to do to produce the version below
was run it through tidy -im -ashtml /tmp/tmp.html

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

<html>
<head>
  <meta name="generator" content=
  "HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 1 September 2005), see www.w3.org">

<style type="text/css">
  html, body {
     height: 100%;
     width: 100%;
     margin: 0px;
  }
</style>

  <title></title>
</head>

<body>
  <center>
    <table cellspacing="0" style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
      <tr>
        <td style="height: 100px" bgcolor="red">a</td>
      </tr>

      <tr>
        <td>hello</td>
      </tr>

      <tr>
        <td style="height: 100px" bgcolor="blue">b</td>
      </tr>
    </table>
  </center>
</body>
</html>


hth,

Greg

-- 
A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?


From arzala at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 23:12:44 2007
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:42:44 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hi
In-Reply-To: <b05cec1c0701041319ycc421c1md262cec94eaa15ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b05cec1c0701041319ycc421c1md262cec94eaa15ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200701050942.44536.arzala@gmail.com>

On Friday 05 January 2007 02:49, Nazmul Hassan wrote:
> Hello, well, im new here.
>
> Well, I just wanted to know a little more about NYPHP i guess. im only 14;
> just a question, how old are you?
>
> I do know PHP tho, and i have coded stuff in the past, one project i worked
> on the vacation http://www.nhassan.sveit.com/dual_database/dd.zip
>
> its very amature, but yeh.

Hi Nazmul

Welcome to NYPHP group. Hope you will enjoy being member of this group. I am 
27 years old. Perhaps you are the youngest member of this group :)

Anirudh Zala
(Building standards)


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 23:23:42 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:23:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hi
In-Reply-To: <200701050942.44536.arzala@gmail.com>
References: <b05cec1c0701041319ycc421c1md262cec94eaa15ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<200701050942.44536.arzala@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701042023j2e4b8986q613a771a0f2e569d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello and welcome, i would bet he is the youngest :)
I am 26 ;)

On 1/4/07, Anirudh Zala <arzala at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday 05 January 2007 02:49, Nazmul Hassan wrote:
> > Hello, well, im new here.
> >
> > Well, I just wanted to know a little more about NYPHP i guess. im only 14;
> > just a question, how old are you?
> >
> > I do know PHP tho, and i have coded stuff in the past, one project i worked
> > on the vacation http://www.nhassan.sveit.com/dual_database/dd.zip
> >
> > its very amature, but yeh.
>
> Hi Nazmul
>
> Welcome to NYPHP group. Hope you will enjoy being member of this group. I am
> 27 years old. Perhaps you are the youngest member of this group :)
>
> Anirudh Zala
> (Building standards)
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Fri Jan  5 00:13:36 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:13:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CakePHP and HTTP Auth
In-Reply-To: <459D37EB.9030400@dailytechnology.net>
References: <459D37EB.9030400@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <3DA8EFED-C3AF-4EE9-A9E5-DFA1C4AF719E@jonbaer.com>

I think this depends on what you are comparing it to, Ive heard the  
same discussion come up @ least twice before in comparison to Rails  
and its worth pointing out that the Ruby language in and of itself  
comes with both a) documentation tool (rdoc) and b) unit testing  
framework already.

IMHO, What is really needed is an O'Reilly CakePHP In A Nutshell book  
for 1.2.

- Jon

On Jan 4, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Brian Dailey wrote:

> <rant>
> By the way, this is my biggest complaint with Cake. Documentation.  
> Relying on the "shotgun documentation", leaving little bits and  
> pieces here and there (wiki, google groups, irc) is killing me. The  
> more time I spend trying to figure out how do to something that  
> should be relatively simple, the less beneficial it is for me to  
> use Cake. It's a great system, but man, the documentation is  
> horrendous.
> </rant>
>
> Thanks,
> - Brian
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From lists at zaunere.com  Fri Jan  5 08:58:28 2007
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:58:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: PHP statistics for december 2006
Message-ID: <011d01c730d1$93c41db0$650aa8c0@MobileZ>


Hi,

Some interesting statistics and information from Damien of PHP.net.  Looks
like a strong 2007 ahead of us.

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com



Damien Seguy wrote on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 12:39 PM:
> Hi Hans,
> 
> PHP adoption statistics for December 2006 are released.
> 
>     * PHP 5 reached 13% of user base.
>     * PHP 5 is chosen for 40% of new PHP installations
>     * PHP 5.1 already declining, leaving room to PHP 5.2
>     * PHP 4.4.4 : still on top of the world, most popular and most
> chosen version 
> 
> This month, some new figures are avaiable :
>     * PHP version that won or lost the largest share this month
>     * PHP adoption by IP (instead of domains)
> 
> As usual, lots of details : PHP versions, Apache, country details,
> etc. 
> 
> PHP stats evolution for December 2006
>  
>
http://www.nexen.net/chiffres_cles/phpversion/php_stats_evolution_for_decemb
er_2006.php
>   PHP statistics for December 2006
>
http://www.nexen.net/chiffres_cles/phpversion/php_statistics_for_december_20
06.php
> 
> Bonne lecture!
> Damien Seguy




From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Sat Jan  6 23:08:41 2007
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:08:41 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
Message-ID: <45A07249.70100@qualityadvantages.com>

In defense of Brian Daley's rant about CAKE and contrary to Nate Abele's illness,
I believe Brian's point are well founded and justified completely.

As a complete CAKE novice, I knew/know nothing about Cake except the misinformation that 
is contained on their home page, i.e *"No Configuration* - Set-up the database and watch the magic begin". 
So I decided to check it out to see for myself what all the hype was about so 
after wading through a miriad of "give us money" I finally was able to download the 
package and attempted to install it on my local Apache Webserver. Give that the installation 
instruction are clear as mud, I attempted to install it like any other PHP Application
but when I attempted to run it, I get  a "Your database configuration file is  not present." 
and a screenful of junk that tells me nothing about how to install the product, except an instruction
that says, "run the install" but never says what that is. Installation instructions, never mind documentation,
are suppose to be specific, precise and correct. Cake is none of the above.

Cake may be cake but it is certainly not soup!

Cake may be indeed a great leap forward but if you can not install it "out of the box" no one will ever know.
I, personally, don't "shop around" for information that isn't where it is "suppose" to be. That means that
Cake only had one shot to impress me, they did, negatively! All the whining on the planet won't fix
an installation process that is fatally flawed.

regards, mikesz



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Sat Jan  6 23:17:57 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 23:17:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
Message-ID: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>

I have to recover some data out of old ism mysql tables and I don't have 
a version of MySQL which can access those tables.  I also can't seem to 
find out how to convert those old tables to myi table format.  Does 
anyone know a tool or have access to the windows binary install of 3.23 
or 4.0 MySQL?

The typical: 

ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM

*MySQL said: *Documentation 
<http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/error-returns.html>

| #1030 - Got error 1 from storage engine

Gives me no results.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Hans
|


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Sun Jan  7 00:12:53 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 00:12:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Test
Message-ID: <45A08155.90100@cyberxdesigns.com>

Sorry for the test but it doesn't look my emails are getting through.


From cliff at pinestream.com  Sun Jan  7 17:11:02 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:11:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Seeking image graph software suggestions
Message-ID: <000001c732a8$b81f6bf0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

I currently use PHP's image functions and the GD library to create bar
charts. Now I want to move on to line and x-y charts. My time is
probably better spent elsewhere than reinventing the wheel again.
 
Does anyone have suggestions for good graphing software?  Some
possibilities I'm exploring:
 
JpGraph
Jpowered
ChartDirector
PEAR Image_Graph
 
I don't need anything fancy, but would rather not spend the time
figuring out how to squeeze an arbitrary number of data points into a
few hundred pixels.
 
Happy New Year,
Cliff Hirsch
_______________________________
Pinestream Communications, Inc.
Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
http://www.pinestream.com <http://www.pinestream.com/> 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070107/908896c0/attachment.html>

From lists at zaunere.com  Sun Jan  7 18:10:58 2007
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:10:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Test Message
Message-ID: <001a01c732b1$178830b0$650aa8c0@MobileZ>


Just checking that the list is working.  Had a couple of reports that
messages weren't getting through.

H




From lists at zaunere.com  Sun Jan  7 18:18:06 2007
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:18:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Test Message
In-Reply-To: <001a01c732b1$178830b0$650aa8c0@MobileZ>
Message-ID: <002101c732b2$168e4ae0$650aa8c0@MobileZ>



Hans Zaunere wrote on Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:11 PM:
> Just checking that the list is working.  Had a couple of reports that
> messages weren't getting through.

And apparently the queue was stuck - should be good now.

H




From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Sun Jan  7 22:45:09 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:45:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>

Try the Windows GUI toolset from MySQL and use the Migration toolkit  
application.  I think that tool was made for those situations.

http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html

- Jon

On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:17 PM, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

> I have to recover some data out of old ism mysql tables and I don't  
> have a version of MySQL which can access those tables.  I also  
> can't seem to find out how to convert those old tables to myi table  
> format.  Does anyone know a tool or have access to the windows  
> binary install of 3.23 or 4.0 MySQL?
>
> The typical:
> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM
>
> *MySQL said: *Documentation <http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/ 
> error-returns.html>
>
> | #1030 - Got error 1 from storage engine
>
> Gives me no results.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Hans
> |
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Sun Jan  7 23:15:06 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 23:15:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>
References: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>

Already tried.  You need to have two functioning database servers to use 
it.  It will not read the ism files directly..  If I had a functioning 
(3.23 or 4.0) data base server that could read the ism tables, I would 
just mysqldump the data out of them.  And read the dump file into 5.0.

If I am mistaken on this belief, please correct me.  When I ran the 
migration tool it kept asking for a source database server.  I am still 
seeking resolution to this problem.

If someone has a zip of 3.23 or 4.0 MySQL server, I would appreciate 
getting access to that file?

Hans

Jon Baer wrote:
> Try the Windows GUI toolset from MySQL and use the Migration toolkit 
> application.  I think that tool was made for those situations.
>
> http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html
>
> - Jon
>
> On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:17 PM, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>
>> I have to recover some data out of old ism mysql tables and I don't 
>> have a version of MySQL which can access those tables.  I also can't 
>> seem to find out how to convert those old tables to myi table 
>> format.  Does anyone know a tool or have access to the windows binary 
>> install of 3.23 or 4.0 MySQL?
>>
>> The typical:
>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM
>>
>> *MySQL said: *Documentation 
>> <http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/error-returns.html>
>>
>> | #1030 - Got error 1 from storage engine
>>
>> Gives me no results.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> Hans
>> |



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Sun Jan  7 23:21:35 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 23:21:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>	<9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>
	<45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45A1C6CF.8010603@cyberxdesigns.com>

Let me be more specific, I am looking for the installer files for 
Windows for either MySQL Server 3.23 or MySQL  Sever 4.0.x.

Hans

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
> Already tried.  You need to have two functioning database servers to 
> use it.  It will not read the ism files directly..  If I had a 
> functioning (3.23 or 4.0) data base server that could read the ism 
> tables, I would just mysqldump the data out of them.  And read the 
> dump file into 5.0.
>
> If I am mistaken on this belief, please correct me.  When I ran the 
> migration tool it kept asking for a source database server.  I am 
> still seeking resolution to this problem.
>
> If someone has a zip of 3.23 or 4.0 MySQL server, I would appreciate 
> getting access to that file?
>
> Hans
>
> Jon Baer wrote:
>> Try the Windows GUI toolset from MySQL and use the Migration toolkit 
>> application.  I think that tool was made for those situations.
>>
>> http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html
>>
>> - Jon
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:17 PM, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>>
>>> I have to recover some data out of old ism mysql tables and I don't 
>>> have a version of MySQL which can access those tables.  I also can't 
>>> seem to find out how to convert those old tables to myi table 
>>> format.  Does anyone know a tool or have access to the windows 
>>> binary install of 3.23 or 4.0 MySQL?
>>>
>>> The typical:
>>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM
>>>
>>> *MySQL said: *Documentation 
>>> <http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/error-returns.html>
>>>
>>> | #1030 - Got error 1 from storage engine
>>>
>>> Gives me no results.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Hans
>>> |


From nate at cakephp.org  Sun Jan  7 23:33:38 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 23:33:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
In-Reply-To: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>

Some get a kick from cocaine.  I'm sure that if I took even one  
sniff, it would bore me terrifically, too.
Yet, I get a kick out of you.

> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:08:41 +0800
> From: "mikesz at qualityadvantages.com" <mikesz at qualityadvantages.com>
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Message-ID: <45A07249.70100 at qualityadvantages.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> In defense of Brian Daley's rant about CAKE and contrary to Nate  
> Abele's illness,
> I believe Brian's point are well founded and justified completely.
>
> As a complete CAKE novice, I knew/know nothing about Cake except  
> the misinformation that
> is contained on their home page, i.e *"No Configuration* - Set-up  
> the database and watch the magic begin".
> So I decided to check it out to see for myself what all the hype  
> was about so
> after wading through a miriad of "give us money" I finally was able  
> to download the
> package and attempted to install it on my local Apache Webserver.  
> Give that the installation
> instruction are clear as mud, I attempted to install it like any  
> other PHP Application
> but when I attempted to run it, I get  a "Your database  
> configuration file is  not present."
> and a screenful of junk that tells me nothing about how to install  
> the product, except an instruction
> that says, "run the install" but never says what that is.  
> Installation instructions, never mind documentation,
> are suppose to be specific, precise and correct. Cake is none of  
> the above.
>
> Cake may be cake but it is certainly not soup!
>
> Cake may be indeed a great leap forward but if you can not install  
> it "out of the box" no one will ever know.
> I, personally, don't "shop around" for information that isn't where  
> it is "suppose" to be. That means that
> Cake only had one shot to impress me, they did, negatively! All the  
> whining on the planet won't fix
> an installation process that is fatally flawed.
>
> regards, mikesz

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070107/9239decb/attachment.html>

From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Sun Jan  7 23:56:02 2007
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 12:56:02 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>	<9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>
	<45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45A1CEE2.7000602@qualityadvantages.com>

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

> Already tried.  You need to have two functioning database servers to 
> use it.  It will not read the ism files directly..  If I had a 
> functioning (3.23 or 4.0) data base server that could read the ism 
> tables, I would just mysqldump the data out of them.  And read the 
> dump file into 5.0.
>
> If I am mistaken on this belief, please correct me.  When I ran the 
> migration tool it kept asking for a source database server.  I am 
> still seeking resolution to this problem.
>
> If someone has a zip of 3.23 or 4.0 MySQL server, I would appreciate 
> getting access to that file?
>
> Hans
>
> Jon Baer wrote:
>
>> Try the Windows GUI toolset from MySQL and use the Migration toolkit 
>> application.  I think that tool was made for those situations.
>>
>> http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html
>>
>> - Jon
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:17 PM, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>>
>>> I have to recover some data out of old ism mysql tables and I don't 
>>> have a version of MySQL which can access those tables.  I also can't 
>>> seem to find out how to convert those old tables to myi table 
>>> format.  Does anyone know a tool or have access to the windows 
>>> binary install of 3.23 or 4.0 MySQL?
>>>
>>> The typical:
>>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM
>>>
>>> *MySQL said: *Documentation 
>>> <http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/error-returns.html>
>>>
>>> | #1030 - Got error 1 from storage engine
>>>
>>> Gives me no results.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Hans
>>> |
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1960 (20070106) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
http://mysql.speedbone.de/downloads/mysql/4.0.html

hope this helps, mikesz


From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Mon Jan  8 00:37:58 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 00:37:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <45A1C6CF.8010603@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>	<9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>
	<45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<45A1C6CF.8010603@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <9251B575-20B6-422E-8DC9-5FC82D910540@jonbaer.com>

Actually after reading your original email all you need to do is a  
bulk search/replace and change ...

>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM

to

>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users ENGINE = MYISAM

And you are good to go.

- Jon


On Jan 7, 2007, at 11:21 PM, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

> Let me be more specific, I am looking for the installer files for  
> Windows for either MySQL Server 3.23 or MySQL  Sever 4.0.x.
>
> Hans
>
> Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>> Already tried.  You need to have two functioning database servers  
>> to use it.  It will not read the ism files directly..  If I had a  
>> functioning (3.23 or 4.0) data base server that could read the ism  
>> tables, I would just mysqldump the data out of them.  And read the  
>> dump file into 5.0.
>>
>> If I am mistaken on this belief, please correct me.  When I ran  
>> the migration tool it kept asking for a source database server.  I  
>> am still seeking resolution to this problem.
>>
>> If someone has a zip of 3.23 or 4.0 MySQL server, I would  
>> appreciate getting access to that file?
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> Jon Baer wrote:
>>> Try the Windows GUI toolset from MySQL and use the Migration  
>>> toolkit application.  I think that tool was made for those  
>>> situations.
>>>
>>> http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html
>>>
>>> - Jon
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:17 PM, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have to recover some data out of old ism mysql tables and I  
>>>> don't have a version of MySQL which can access those tables.  I  
>>>> also can't seem to find out how to convert those old tables to  
>>>> myi table format.  Does anyone know a tool or have access to the  
>>>> windows binary install of 3.23 or 4.0 MySQL?
>>>>
>>>> The typical:
>>>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM
>>>>
>>>> *MySQL said: *Documentation <http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/ 
>>>> en/error-returns.html>
>>>>
>>>> | #1030 - Got error 1 from storage engine
>>>>
>>>> Gives me no results.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Hans
>>>> |
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From marcin.szkudlarek at gmail.com  Mon Jan  8 07:12:53 2007
From: marcin.szkudlarek at gmail.com (Marcin Szkudlarek)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:12:53 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
In-Reply-To: <C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>
	<C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>

I think that for every framework you need some time to learn it. After
that time you're able to  get the benefits of using it. I spent few
days learning cake (no problems with installation). Usually when I
didn't understand how particular part works I just looked into the
code.. it's the way I recommend for people struggling with Cake. What
I mean in general is that you'll appreciate the benefits of using Cake
after you'll learn at least at the basic level.

Regards,

Marcin


On 08/01/07, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
>
>
> Some get a kick from cocaine.  I'm sure that if I took even one sniff, it
> would bore me terrifically, too.
> Yet, I get a kick out of you.
>
>
> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:08:41 +0800
> From: "mikesz at qualityadvantages.com" <mikesz at qualityadvantages.com>
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Message-ID: <45A07249.70100 at qualityadvantages.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> In defense of Brian Daley's rant about CAKE and contrary to Nate Abele's
> illness,
> I believe Brian's point are well founded and justified completely.
>
> As a complete CAKE novice, I knew/know nothing about Cake except the
> misinformation that
> is contained on their home page, i.e *"No Configuration* - Set-up the
> database and watch the magic begin".
> So I decided to check it out to see for myself what all the hype was about
> so
> after wading through a miriad of "give us money" I finally was able to
> download the
> package and attempted to install it on my local Apache Webserver. Give that
> the installation
> instruction are clear as mud, I attempted to install it like any other PHP
> Application
> but when I attempted to run it, I get  a "Your database configuration file
> is  not present."
> and a screenful of junk that tells me nothing about how to install the
> product, except an instruction
> that says, "run the install" but never says what that is. Installation
> instructions, never mind documentation,
> are suppose to be specific, precise and correct. Cake is none of the above.
>
> Cake may be cake but it is certainly not soup!
>
> Cake may be indeed a great leap forward but if you can not install it "out
> of the box" no one will ever know.
> I, personally, don't "shop around" for information that isn't where it is
> "suppose" to be. That means that
> Cake only had one shot to impress me, they did, negatively! All the whining
> on the planet won't fix
> an installation process that is fatally flawed.
>
> regards, mikesz
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


From r.mariotti at fdcx.net  Mon Jan  8 07:54:19 2007
From: r.mariotti at fdcx.net (R. Mariotti)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 07:54:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] re: Graph creation software for PHP
Message-ID: <45A23EFB.4010700@fdcx.net>

 > Message: 4
 > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:11:02 -0500
 > From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
 > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Seeking image graph software suggestions
 > To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
 > Message-ID: <000001c732a8$b81f6bf0$12a8a8c0 at HirschLaptop>
 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 >
 > I currently use PHP's image functions and the GD library to create bar
 > charts. Now I want to move on to line and x-y charts. My time is
 > probably better spent elsewhere than reinventing the wheel again.
 >
 > Does anyone have suggestions for good graphing software?  Some
 > possibilities I'm exploring:
 >
 > JpGraph
 > Jpowered
 > ChartDirector
 > PEAR Image_Graph
 >
 > I don't need anything fancy, but would rather not spend the time
 > figuring out how to squeeze an arbitrary number of data points into a
 > few hundred pixels.
 >
 > Happy New Year,
 > Cliff Hirsch
 > _______________________________
 > Pinestream Communications, Inc.
 > Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
 > 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
 > Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
 > http://www.pinestream.com <http://www.pinestream.com/>

Cliff;

I've used ChartDirector in multiple projects and it has always delivered 
very well.  It's reasonably quick; the charts are reasonably well 
resolved; they're completely configurable; the support is reasonable and 
the cost is pretty cheap compared to "re-inventing the wheel".

That's just my $0.02 worth..  YMMV

bobmct



From adlermedrado at gmail.com  Mon Jan  8 08:13:10 2007
From: adlermedrado at gmail.com (Adler Medrado)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:13:10 -0300
Subject: [nycphp-talk] re: Graph creation software for PHP
In-Reply-To: <45A23EFB.4010700@fdcx.net>
References: <45A23EFB.4010700@fdcx.net>
Message-ID: <f8a4e8e10701080513x7e34d36fxd6b645587aa2b0a0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Cliff,

i think you can use the Graph component included in ez components package.

good luck.

-- 
adler medrado

Nesher Technologies
Bras?lia, DF, Brasil.
http://www.neshertech.net
http://adler.neshertech.net


2007/1/8, R. Mariotti <r.mariotti at fdcx.net>:
>
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:11:02 -0500
> > From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
> > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Seeking image graph software suggestions
> > To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> > Message-ID: <000001c732a8$b81f6bf0$12a8a8c0 at HirschLaptop>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I currently use PHP's image functions and the GD library to create bar
> > charts. Now I want to move on to line and x-y charts. My time is
> > probably better spent elsewhere than reinventing the wheel again.
> >
> > Does anyone have suggestions for good graphing software?  Some
> > possibilities I'm exploring:
> >
> > JpGraph
> > Jpowered
> > ChartDirector
> > PEAR Image_Graph
> >
> > I don't need anything fancy, but would rather not spend the time
> > figuring out how to squeeze an arbitrary number of data points into a
> > few hundred pixels.
> >
> > Happy New Year,
> > Cliff Hirsch
> > _______________________________
> > Pinestream Communications, Inc.
> > Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
> > 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
> > Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
> > http://www.pinestream.com <http://www.pinestream.com/>
>
> Cliff;
>
> I've used ChartDirector in multiple projects and it has always delivered
> very well.  It's reasonably quick; the charts are reasonably well
> resolved; they're completely configurable; the support is reasonable and
> the cost is pretty cheap compared to "re-inventing the wheel".
>
> That's just my $0.02 worth..  YMMV
>
> bobmct
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070108/b5c5ecd0/attachment.html>

From urb at e-government.com  Mon Jan  8 08:33:45 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 08:33:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <45A1C6CF.8010603@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>
	<45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<45A1C6CF.8010603@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070108083152.04a35940@e-government.com>


>Let me be more specific, I am looking for the installer files for 
>Windows for either MySQL Server 3.23 or MySQL  Sever 4.0.x.

         I have MySQL version 3.23.27 for Windows installed and 
running. I don't think
If you give me the file names you need I'll zip them up and send them to you.

Urb





From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Mon Jan  8 08:46:05 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 08:46:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
In-Reply-To: <d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>
	<C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>
	<d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>

I think that people coming from procedural PHP tend to have a harder  
time getting into MVC styled programming.  Especially if a complete  
framework is the very next thing they look @ without OO programing.   
If you have gone from Java to JSP to Struts to PHP and onto Cake (and  
probably @ least checking out what that Ruby on Rails thing is about)  
you tend to appreciate it more.  I agree you need to set aside @  
least a good day for each part of MVC to understand what you are  
getting into, but when something breaks or you have to debug it won't  
take long to find.  Nearly every rant I've seen is mainly due to  
complete disagreement with the conventions used or is just a complete  
bikeshed issue :-)

- Jon

On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:12 AM, Marcin Szkudlarek wrote:

> I think that for every framework you need some time to learn it. After
> that time you're able to  get the benefits of using it. I spent few
> days learning cake (no problems with installation). Usually when I
> didn't understand how particular part works I just looked into the
> code.. it's the way I recommend for people struggling with Cake. What
> I mean in general is that you'll appreciate the benefits of using Cake
> after you'll learn at least at the basic level.
>
> Regards,
>
> Marcin
>
>
> On 08/01/07, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Some get a kick from cocaine.  I'm sure that if I took even one  
>> sniff, it
>> would bore me terrifically, too.
>> Yet, I get a kick out of you.
>>
>>
>> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:08:41 +0800
>> From: "mikesz at qualityadvantages.com" <mikesz at qualityadvantages.com>
>> Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
>> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>> Message-ID: <45A07249.70100 at qualityadvantages.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> In defense of Brian Daley's rant about CAKE and contrary to Nate  
>> Abele's
>> illness,
>> I believe Brian's point are well founded and justified completely.
>>
>> As a complete CAKE novice, I knew/know nothing about Cake except the
>> misinformation that
>> is contained on their home page, i.e *"No Configuration* - Set-up the
>> database and watch the magic begin".
>> So I decided to check it out to see for myself what all the hype  
>> was about
>> so
>> after wading through a miriad of "give us money" I finally was  
>> able to
>> download the
>> package and attempted to install it on my local Apache Webserver.  
>> Give that
>> the installation
>> instruction are clear as mud, I attempted to install it like any  
>> other PHP
>> Application
>> but when I attempted to run it, I get  a "Your database  
>> configuration file
>> is  not present."
>> and a screenful of junk that tells me nothing about how to install  
>> the
>> product, except an instruction
>> that says, "run the install" but never says what that is.  
>> Installation
>> instructions, never mind documentation,
>> are suppose to be specific, precise and correct. Cake is none of  
>> the above.
>>
>> Cake may be cake but it is certainly not soup!
>>
>> Cake may be indeed a great leap forward but if you can not install  
>> it "out
>> of the box" no one will ever know.
>> I, personally, don't "shop around" for information that isn't  
>> where it is
>> "suppose" to be. That means that
>> Cake only had one shot to impress me, they did, negatively! All  
>> the whining
>> on the planet won't fix
>> an installation process that is fatally flawed.
>>
>> regards, mikesz
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Mon Jan  8 08:53:47 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 08:53:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] re: Graph creation software for PHP
In-Reply-To: <45A23EFB.4010700@fdcx.net>
References: <45A23EFB.4010700@fdcx.net>
Message-ID: <273BA39F-2CAE-44D7-B31D-B1E4070C48E7@jonbaer.com>

I must say that someone else on this list recommend this package a  
while back + it is a gem ...

http://www.maani.us/charts/index.php

Well worth a look.

- Jon

On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:54 AM, R. Mariotti wrote:

> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:11:02 -0500
> > From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
> > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Seeking image graph software suggestions
> > To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> > Message-ID: <000001c732a8$b81f6bf0$12a8a8c0 at HirschLaptop>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I currently use PHP's image functions and the GD library to  
> create bar
> > charts. Now I want to move on to line and x-y charts. My time is
> > probably better spent elsewhere than reinventing the wheel again.
> >
> > Does anyone have suggestions for good graphing software?  Some
> > possibilities I'm exploring:
> >
> > JpGraph
> > Jpowered
> > ChartDirector
> > PEAR Image_Graph
> >
> > I don't need anything fancy, but would rather not spend the time
> > figuring out how to squeeze an arbitrary number of data points  
> into a
> > few hundred pixels.
> >
> > Happy New Year,
> > Cliff Hirsch
> > _______________________________
> > Pinestream Communications, Inc.
> > Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
> > 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
> > Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
> > http://www.pinestream.com <http://www.pinestream.com/>
>
> Cliff;
>
> I've used ChartDirector in multiple projects and it has always  
> delivered very well.  It's reasonably quick; the charts are  
> reasonably well resolved; they're completely configurable; the  
> support is reasonable and the cost is pretty cheap compared to "re- 
> inventing the wheel".
>
> That's just my $0.02 worth..  YMMV
>
> bobmct
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From support at dailytechnology.net  Mon Jan  8 09:00:54 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 09:00:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
In-Reply-To: <4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>	<C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>	<d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <45A24E96.6010805@dailytechnology.net>

I just wanted to hop in and say I couldn't agree more.

Cake may have some documentation issues, but it was still easier to set 
up than Rails, Symphony, or any of the other frameworks I've 
experimented with in the past. I'll continue to use it for as long as it 
makes my job easier and faster.

Jon Baer wrote:
> I think that people coming from procedural PHP tend to have a harder 
> time getting into MVC styled programming.  Especially if a complete 
> framework is the very next thing they look @ without OO programing.  If 
> you have gone from Java to JSP to Struts to PHP and onto Cake (and 
> probably @ least checking out what that Ruby on Rails thing is about) 
> you tend to appreciate it more.  I agree you need to set aside @ least a 
> good day for each part of MVC to understand what you are getting into, 
> but when something breaks or you have to debug it won't take long to 
> find.  Nearly every rant I've seen is mainly due to complete 
> disagreement with the conventions used or is just a complete bikeshed 
> issue :-)
> 
> - Jon
> 
> On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:12 AM, Marcin Szkudlarek wrote:
> 
>> I think that for every framework you need some time to learn it. After
>> that time you're able to  get the benefits of using it. I spent few
>> days learning cake (no problems with installation). Usually when I
>> didn't understand how particular part works I just looked into the
>> code.. it's the way I recommend for people struggling with Cake. What
>> I mean in general is that you'll appreciate the benefits of using Cake
>> after you'll learn at least at the basic level.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Marcin
>>
>>
>> On 08/01/07, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Some get a kick from cocaine.  I'm sure that if I took even one 
>>> sniff, it
>>> would bore me terrifically, too.
>>> Yet, I get a kick out of you.
>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:08:41 +0800
>>> From: "mikesz at qualityadvantages.com" <mikesz at qualityadvantages.com>
>>> Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
>>> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>>> Message-ID: <45A07249.70100 at qualityadvantages.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> In defense of Brian Daley's rant about CAKE and contrary to Nate Abele's
>>> illness,
>>> I believe Brian's point are well founded and justified completely.
>>>
>>> As a complete CAKE novice, I knew/know nothing about Cake except the
>>> misinformation that
>>> is contained on their home page, i.e *"No Configuration* - Set-up the
>>> database and watch the magic begin".
>>> So I decided to check it out to see for myself what all the hype was 
>>> about
>>> so
>>> after wading through a miriad of "give us money" I finally was able to
>>> download the
>>> package and attempted to install it on my local Apache Webserver. 
>>> Give that
>>> the installation
>>> instruction are clear as mud, I attempted to install it like any 
>>> other PHP
>>> Application
>>> but when I attempted to run it, I get  a "Your database configuration 
>>> file
>>> is  not present."
>>> and a screenful of junk that tells me nothing about how to install the
>>> product, except an instruction
>>> that says, "run the install" but never says what that is. Installation
>>> instructions, never mind documentation,
>>> are suppose to be specific, precise and correct. Cake is none of the 
>>> above.
>>>
>>> Cake may be cake but it is certainly not soup!
>>>
>>> Cake may be indeed a great leap forward but if you can not install it 
>>> "out
>>> of the box" no one will ever know.
>>> I, personally, don't "shop around" for information that isn't where 
>>> it is
>>> "suppose" to be. That means that
>>> Cake only had one shot to impress me, they did, negatively! All the 
>>> whining
>>> on the planet won't fix
>>> an installation process that is fatally flawed.
>>>
>>> regards, mikesz
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 


From mikeh at dtev.com  Mon Jan  8 09:47:33 2007
From: mikeh at dtev.com (Michele Hjorleifsson)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 09:47:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
In-Reply-To: <45A24E96.6010805@dailytechnology.net>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>	<C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>	<d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>
	<45A24E96.6010805@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <B0C8B8F7-4A6C-430B-8CFA-5E33D923A5BF@dtev.com>

Why not hold a beginners cake presentation or webinar as a topic  
since there seems to be some interest ?



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Mon Jan  8 10:46:55 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:46:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
In-Reply-To: <B0C8B8F7-4A6C-430B-8CFA-5E33D923A5BF@dtev.com>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>	<C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>	<d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>
	<45A24E96.6010805@dailytechnology.net>
	<B0C8B8F7-4A6C-430B-8CFA-5E33D923A5BF@dtev.com>
Message-ID: <B000A9C3-1143-4F9F-B30C-C9991120ABA3@jonbaer.com>

There already was one a few months back by Nate ...

http://www.nyphp.org/content/presentations/CakeNYPHPPresentation.pdf

It would be nice to get either a 1.2 update or maybe a local user  
group specific to CakePHP?  The thing is that most people have to  
explain what they would like to see being done ... (it would be nice  
to see locals fill up their screencast library w/ specialized topics)

http://cakephp.org/screencasts

- Jon

On Jan 8, 2007, at 9:47 AM, Michele Hjorleifsson wrote:

> Why not hold a beginners cake presentation or webinar as a topic  
> since there seems to be some interest ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From support at dailytechnology.net  Mon Jan  8 11:31:32 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] strtotime() Bug?
Message-ID: <45A271E4.30003@dailytechnology.net>

Have you guys ran into this? I'm using strtotime('first monday january 
2007'), but I'm getting erroneous dates when the first day of that week 
occurs on the first of the month.

Examples:
date('Y-m-d', strtotime('second monday january 2007'));
date('Y-m-d', strtotime('second tuesday february 2007'));

Output Expected:
2007-01-08
2007-02-08

Actual Output:
2007-01-15
2007-02-15

The bug is in the PHP bug tracker here:
http://bugs.php.net/40003

But, alas, the bug has been marked as "bogus", although the problem is 
apparently unresolved. Is there a workaround for this, or am I doing 
something wrong?

Thanks guys!
- Brian


From jay_nyphp2 at fastmail.fm  Mon Jan  8 12:24:37 2007
From: jay_nyphp2 at fastmail.fm (Jay Sheth)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 12:24:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 4 Constructor Weirdness
Message-ID: <1168277077.8731.283699379@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi NYPHPers,

Here's a question:
What would you expect to be outputted below (using PHP 4)?

<?php
  class xyz{
   function xyz($id){
       $this->id = $id;
   }   
  }
  
  class abc extends xyz{
      function def($id){
        parent::xyz($id);    
      }
  }
  
  $test = new abc(43);
  echo $test->id;
?>

If you answered 'nothing', you're wrong. It outputs '43'. I'm wondering
how PHP find that def() is the constructor when instantiating the abc
class?

 Ordinarily, it should have the same name as the class. I think the
 'parent::xyz' call is somehow matched to the 'extends xyz' declaration,
 and the constructor is found. Is this a bug or a feature?

Regards, 
- Jay



From scott at crisscott.com  Mon Jan  8 12:35:09 2007
From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 12:35:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 4 Constructor Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <1168277077.8731.283699379@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1168277077.8731.283699379@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <45A280CD.6070606@crisscott.com>

Jay Sheth wrote:
> Hi NYPHPers,
> 
> Here's a question:
> What would you expect to be outputted below (using PHP 4)?
> 
> <?php
>   class xyz{
>    function xyz($id){
>        $this->id = $id;
>    }   
>   }
>   
>   class abc extends xyz{
>       function def($id){
>         parent::xyz($id);    
>       }
>   }
>   
>   $test = new abc(43);
>   echo $test->id;
> ?>
> 
> If you answered 'nothing', you're wrong. It outputs '43'. I'm wondering
> how PHP find that def() is the constructor when instantiating the abc
> class?
> 


It doesn't call def() at all. If you don't provide a constructor for a 
class, PHP calls the parent class's constructor. In this case xyz(). If 
class xyz didn't have a constructor, then you should expect nothing to 
be returned. Try putting an echo into def() to verify what is and is not 
being called.

Scott Mattocks


From shiflett at php.net  Mon Jan  8 13:03:15 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 13:03:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 4 Constructor Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <1168277077.8731.283699379@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1168277077.8731.283699379@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <45A28763.8000000@php.net>

Jay Sheth wrote:
> What would you expect to be outputted below (using PHP 4)?
> 
> <?php
>   class xyz{
>    function xyz($id){
>        $this->id = $id;
>    }   
>   }
>   
>   class abc extends xyz{
>       function def($id){
>         parent::xyz($id);    
>       }
>   }
>   
>   $test = new abc(43);
>   echo $test->id;
> ?>
> 
> If you answered 'nothing', you're wrong. It outputs '43'. I'm
> wondering how PHP find that def() is the constructor when
> instantiating the abc class?

False assumptions form the basis of many programming errors. I'd suggest
that you first verify your assumptions. Are you sure the def() method
being called? If it is, that's insane, but I bet it's not. :-)

Here's a hint. You're extending a class that has a constructor. You
don't provide a constructor in the definition of the child class...

Hope that helps.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From jay_nyphp2 at fastmail.fm  Mon Jan  8 13:27:01 2007
From: jay_nyphp2 at fastmail.fm (Jay Sheth)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 13:27:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 4 Constructor Weirdness
Message-ID: <1168280821.18375.283711703@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi Chris and Scott,
thanks for the quick replies. You're both right. I should've tested it
with an echo inside of def().
I'd simplified this as a test case from a larger problem I'd seen, and
*assumed* I'd found the right answer. So much for making untested
assumptions, as Chris said ;-)

Regards,
- Jay

Chris wrote:
>False assumptions form the basis of many programming errors. I'd suggest
>that you first verify your assumptions. Are you sure the def() method
>being called? If it is, that's insane, but I bet it's not. :-)


From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Jan  8 13:35:13 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 13:35:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 4 Constructor Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <1168280821.18375.283711703@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c73353$bc18ea00$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

echos -- blech

single-step through your code using a debugger

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Jay Sheth
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:27 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 4 Constructor Weirdness

Hi Chris and Scott,
thanks for the quick replies. You're both right. I should've tested it
with an echo inside of def().
I'd simplified this as a test case from a larger problem I'd seen, and
*assumed* I'd found the right answer. So much for making untested
assumptions, as Chris said ;-)

Regards,
- Jay

Chris wrote:
>False assumptions form the basis of many programming errors. I'd
suggest
>that you first verify your assumptions. Are you sure the def() method
>being called? If it is, that's insane, but I bet it's not. :-)
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Mon Jan  8 15:20:55 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:20:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] re: Graph creation software for PHP
In-Reply-To: <273BA39F-2CAE-44D7-B31D-B1E4070C48E7@jonbaer.com>
References: <45A23EFB.4010700@fdcx.net>
	<273BA39F-2CAE-44D7-B31D-B1E4070C48E7@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0701081220i646dc137pfe90435db30cf224@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.maani.us/charts/index.php - > that looks pretty cool

On 1/8/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
>
> I must say that someone else on this list recommend this package a
> while back + it is a gem ...
>
> http://www.maani.us/charts/index.php
>
> Well worth a look.
>
> - Jon
>
> On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:54 AM, R. Mariotti wrote:
>
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:11:02 -0500
> > > From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
> > > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Seeking image graph software suggestions
> > > To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> > > Message-ID: <000001c732a8$b81f6bf0$12a8a8c0 at HirschLaptop>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > > I currently use PHP's image functions and the GD library to
> > create bar
> > > charts. Now I want to move on to line and x-y charts. My time is
> > > probably better spent elsewhere than reinventing the wheel again.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have suggestions for good graphing software?  Some
> > > possibilities I'm exploring:
> > >
> > > JpGraph
> > > Jpowered
> > > ChartDirector
> > > PEAR Image_Graph
> > >
> > > I don't need anything fancy, but would rather not spend the time
> > > figuring out how to squeeze an arbitrary number of data points
> > into a
> > > few hundred pixels.
> > >
> > > Happy New Year,
> > > Cliff Hirsch
> > > _______________________________
> > > Pinestream Communications, Inc.
> > > Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
> > > 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
> > > Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
> > > http://www.pinestream.com <http://www.pinestream.com/>
> >
> > Cliff;
> >
> > I've used ChartDirector in multiple projects and it has always
> > delivered very well.  It's reasonably quick; the charts are
> > reasonably well resolved; they're completely configurable; the
> > support is reasonable and the cost is pretty cheap compared to "re-
> > inventing the wheel".
> >
> > That's just my $0.02 worth..  YMMV
> >
> > bobmct
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070108/2336f6ca/attachment.html>

From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Mon Jan  8 15:44:17 2007
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:44:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
In-Reply-To: <4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>
	<C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>
	<d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701081521210.76149@emra.pair.com>

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007, Jon Baer wrote:

> I think that people coming from procedural PHP tend to have a harder
> time getting into MVC styled programming.  Especially if a complete
> framework is the very next thing they look @ without OO programing.[...]

Yes.

Speaking as a sort of perpetual semi-pro dilettante with a
non-programming-related day job, I think I can understand this issue.

CakePHP can make you weep -- with joy. You do a couple things and BANG!
It's working. I have stared at the screen, jaws agape, and said holy f__ I
can't believe it. Wow. I was so pleased, I gave them all $23.47 that
happened to be in my PayPal account.

Then again, if you are a lowly foot soldier and not really that
experienced and/or not that clever, CakePHP has the ability to make you
weep. You want to do one simple thing that isn't exactly a CRUD operation
on something that isn't quite your run-of-the-mill entity like the good
old Blog entry of tutorial fame, and suddenly it's so absurdly hard -- or
else you're just not getting it, in which case it's still absurdly hard --
and there you are contorting and sweating until you just say f__ it and
decide you're better off doing it by hand after all.

Maybe the answer is you're both right -- you CakePHP master bakers, and
you detractors who bash it for want of documentation. It's great and
marvelous and wonderful, and harder than hell for people who need a little
more hand-holding.

PS to Nate, nice to see some appreciation for Cole Porter/Ol' Blue Eyes!

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede
siempre expeditivamente, como si el principio universal
de m?xima eficiencia hubiera aconsejado la supresi?n de
gradaciones intermedias.

  -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan




From support at dailytechnology.net  Mon Jan  8 16:13:41 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 16:13:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701081521210.76149@emra.pair.com>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>	<C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>	<d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>	<4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0701081521210.76149@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <45A2B405.7070803@dailytechnology.net>

"Maybe the answer is you're both right -- you CakePHP master bakers, and
you detractors who bash it for want of documentation. It's great and
marvelous and wonderful, and harder than hell for people who need a 
little more hand-holding."

I've had six years of experience in the IT industry, starting out with 
Java and eventually going to PHP about two and a half years ago. The 
lack of documentation doesn't just affect n00bs.

David Mintz wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007, Jon Baer wrote:
> 
>> I think that people coming from procedural PHP tend to have a harder
>> time getting into MVC styled programming.  Especially if a complete
>> framework is the very next thing they look @ without OO programing.[...]
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Speaking as a sort of perpetual semi-pro dilettante with a
> non-programming-related day job, I think I can understand this issue.
> 
> CakePHP can make you weep -- with joy. You do a couple things and BANG!
> It's working. I have stared at the screen, jaws agape, and said holy f__ I
> can't believe it. Wow. I was so pleased, I gave them all $23.47 that
> happened to be in my PayPal account.
> 
> Then again, if you are a lowly foot soldier and not really that
> experienced and/or not that clever, CakePHP has the ability to make you
> weep. You want to do one simple thing that isn't exactly a CRUD operation
> on something that isn't quite your run-of-the-mill entity like the good
> old Blog entry of tutorial fame, and suddenly it's so absurdly hard -- or
> else you're just not getting it, in which case it's still absurdly hard --
> and there you are contorting and sweating until you just say f__ it and
> decide you're better off doing it by hand after all.
> 
> Maybe the answer is you're both right -- you CakePHP master bakers, and
> you detractors who bash it for want of documentation. It's great and
> marvelous and wonderful, and harder than hell for people who need a little
> more hand-holding.
> 
> PS to Nate, nice to see some appreciation for Cole Porter/Ol' Blue Eyes!
> 
> ---
> David Mintz
> http://davidmintz.org/
> 
> En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede
> siempre expeditivamente, como si el principio universal
> de m?xima eficiencia hubiera aconsejado la supresi?n de
> gradaciones intermedias.
> 
>   -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Mon Jan  8 17:09:36 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 17:09:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] re: Graph creation software for PHP
In-Reply-To: <273BA39F-2CAE-44D7-B31D-B1E4070C48E7@jonbaer.com>
References: <45A23EFB.4010700@fdcx.net>
	<273BA39F-2CAE-44D7-B31D-B1E4070C48E7@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <45A2C120.7010209@beaffinitive.com>

I remember when that got recommended before...  I use JpGraph and was 
going to switch to it, but it got shot down when I realized that people 
using the charts often cut and paste the graph into a Word doc or 
something like that.  The PHP/SWF Charts FAQ says this about exporting 
to image files: "Currently, the only way to do this is manually. Grab a 
screen shot of the chart and convert it to other file formats. If your 
platform supports printing to pdf, use the *_link's 
<http://www.maani.us/charts/index.php?menu=Reference&submenu=link>_* 
print feature to print it to a PDF file." So we stuck with JpGraph 
because it generates image files.

Something to consider.
Cheers,
Rob

Jon Baer wrote:
> I must say that someone else on this list recommend this package a 
> while back + it is a gem ...
>
> http://www.maani.us/charts/index.php
>
> Well worth a look.
>
> - Jon
>
> On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:54 AM, R. Mariotti wrote:
>
>> > Message: 4
>> > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:11:02 -0500
>> > From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
>> > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Seeking image graph software suggestions
>> > To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>> > Message-ID: <000001c732a8$b81f6bf0$12a8a8c0 at HirschLaptop>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >
>> > I currently use PHP's image functions and the GD library to create bar
>> > charts. Now I want to move on to line and x-y charts. My time is
>> > probably better spent elsewhere than reinventing the wheel again.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have suggestions for good graphing software?  Some
>> > possibilities I'm exploring:
>> >
>> > JpGraph
>> > Jpowered
>> > ChartDirector
>> > PEAR Image_Graph
>> >
>> > I don't need anything fancy, but would rather not spend the time
>> > figuring out how to squeeze an arbitrary number of data points into a
>> > few hundred pixels.
>> >
>> > Happy New Year,
>> > Cliff Hirsch
>> > _______________________________
>> > Pinestream Communications, Inc.
>> > Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
>> > 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
>> > Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
>> > http://www.pinestream.com <http://www.pinestream.com/>
>>
>> Cliff;
>>
>> I've used ChartDirector in multiple projects and it has always 
>> delivered very well.  It's reasonably quick; the charts are 
>> reasonably well resolved; they're completely configurable; the 
>> support is reasonable and the cost is pretty cheap compared to 
>> "re-inventing the wheel".
>>
>> That's just my $0.02 worth..  YMMV
>>
>> bobmct
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Mon Jan  8 22:53:25 2007
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 22:53:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
In-Reply-To: <45A2B405.7070803@dailytechnology.net>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>
	<C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>
	<d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0701081521210.76149@emra.pair.com>
	<45A2B405.7070803@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <4b1887110701081953h589cfdbdq54a34511a9bf0e66@mail.gmail.com>

To insert a purely technical explanation...

CakePHP is the shit. It may be a little unwieldy at first, but it is
capable of great things. As with anything, read the source code. If
you're not willing to read the source code, a framework will never
really be any good to you except for basic things. Figure it out.
Contribute.

Oh right, and I wrote an experimental Oracle driver for it. The latest
driver is in the 1.2.x.x branch (not trunk)... Do my QA for me. :-)

In the words of Borat, "frameworks are niiiice."


From rlandrigan at terexca.com  Mon Jan  8 23:18:25 2007
From: rlandrigan at terexca.com (Robert Landrigan)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:18:25 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] re: Graph creation software for PHP
In-Reply-To: <45A2C120.7010209@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <C1C873B1.612D3%rlandrigan@terexca.com>

I've used the Interakt MXCharts, the Manni Flash charts, JpGraph, and
currently use FusionCharts, from Infosoft.

If you have to have a easily grabbed image to put into a word doc, then,
yeah, JpGraph is about the best option. But FusionCharts(and the PowerMaps
pack) saved my life. Very nice looking flash charts, with very solid
documentation, all fed by XML feeds. I run a php 5 reporting site and the
feed back has be very positive - drill down charts with ajax refreshing made
me a hero:)

Having fought charting for a year or so, this is an area that Flash is
actually useful  - image maps are simply too limited for accurate drill-down
capabilities.


On 1/8/07 4:09 PM, "Rob Marscher" <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:

> I remember when that got recommended before...  I use JpGraph and was
> going to switch to it, but it got shot down when I realized that people
> using the charts often cut and paste the graph into a Word doc or
> something like that.  The PHP/SWF Charts FAQ says this about exporting
> to image files: "Currently, the only way to do this is manually. Grab a
> screen shot of the chart and convert it to other file formats. If your
> platform supports printing to pdf, use the *_link's
> <http://www.maani.us/charts/index.php?menu=Reference&submenu=link>_*
> print feature to print it to a PDF file." So we stuck with JpGraph
> because it generates image files.
> 
> Something to consider.
> Cheers,
> Rob
> 
> Jon Baer wrote:
>> I must say that someone else on this list recommend this package a
>> while back + it is a gem ...
>> 
>> http://www.maani.us/charts/index.php
>> 
>> Well worth a look.
>> 
>> - Jon
>> 
>> On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:54 AM, R. Mariotti wrote:
>> 
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:11:02 -0500
>>>> From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
>>>> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Seeking image graph software suggestions
>>>> To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>>> Message-ID: <000001c732a8$b81f6bf0$12a8a8c0 at HirschLaptop>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>> 
>>>> I currently use PHP's image functions and the GD library to create bar
>>>> charts. Now I want to move on to line and x-y charts. My time is
>>>> probably better spent elsewhere than reinventing the wheel again.
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone have suggestions for good graphing software?  Some
>>>> possibilities I'm exploring:
>>>> 
>>>> JpGraph
>>>> Jpowered
>>>> ChartDirector
>>>> PEAR Image_Graph
>>>> 
>>>> I don't need anything fancy, but would rather not spend the time
>>>> figuring out how to squeeze an arbitrary number of data points into a
>>>> few hundred pixels.
>>>> 
>>>> Happy New Year,
>>>> Cliff Hirsch
>>>> _______________________________
>>>> Pinestream Communications, Inc.
>>>> Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
>>>> 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
>>>> Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
>>>> http://www.pinestream.com <http://www.pinestream.com/>
>>> 
>>> Cliff;
>>> 
>>> I've used ChartDirector in multiple projects and it has always
>>> delivered very well.  It's reasonably quick; the charts are
>>> reasonably well resolved; they're completely configurable; the
>>> support is reasonable and the cost is pretty cheap compared to
>>> "re-inventing the wheel".
>>> 
>>> That's just my $0.02 worth..  YMMV
>>> 
>>> bobmct
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> 
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> 
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> 
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Robert Landrigan
Web Developer, Terex Construction Americas
Terex Intranet Team
rlandrigan at terexca.com

********************************************************************** 
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the company. The company does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. 

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. 

********************************************************************** 



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Mon Jan  8 23:59:44 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 23:59:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <9251B575-20B6-422E-8DC9-5FC82D910540@jonbaer.com>
References: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>	<9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>	<45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>	<45A1C6CF.8010603@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<9251B575-20B6-422E-8DC9-5FC82D910540@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <45A32140.4080407@cyberxdesigns.com>

Well, I did finally get a copy of MySQL 4.0.x installed on my computer.  
It looks like the tables are really corrupt.   The iasmchk utility 
wasn't able to recover them.  I am kinda bummed but live and learn.  Now 
I have MySQL 4.0.x, 4.1.x and 5.0.x installed on my computer just for 
this case.

When I ran ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM  in MySQL 4.0 it wiped 
the tables clean.  They showed no records.

When I ran ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM  in MySQL 4.1 or 5.0 I 
got the same silly error I was getting earlier from MySQL.

Thank for the help guys.
Hans

Jon Baer wrote:
> Actually after reading your original email all you need to do is a 
> bulk search/replace and change ...
>
>>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM
>
> to
>
>>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users ENGINE = MYISAM



From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Tue Jan  9 00:37:25 2007
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:37:25 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <45A32140.4080407@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>	<9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>	<45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>	<45A1C6CF.8010603@cyberxdesigns.com>	<9251B575-20B6-422E-8DC9-5FC82D910540@jonbaer.com>
	<45A32140.4080407@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45A32A15.8040309@qualityadvantages.com>

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

> Well, I did finally get a copy of MySQL 4.0.x installed on my 
> computer.  It looks like the tables are really corrupt.   The iasmchk 
> utility wasn't able to recover them.  I am kinda bummed but live and 
> learn.  Now I have MySQL 4.0.x, 4.1.x and 5.0.x installed on my 
> computer just for this case.
>
> When I ran ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM  in MySQL 4.0 it 
> wiped the tables clean.  They showed no records.
>
> When I ran ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM  in MySQL 4.1 or 5.0 
> I got the same silly error I was getting earlier from MySQL.
>
> Thank for the help guys.
> Hans
>
> Jon Baer wrote:
>
>> Actually after reading your original email all you need to do is a 
>> bulk search/replace and change ...
>>
>>>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM
>>>
>>
>> to
>>
>>>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users ENGINE = MYISAM
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1963 (20070108) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
What happened when you ran "ALTER TABLE phpbb_users ENGINE = MYISAM" as 
suggested?

I also have 40, 41 and 50 running on my system and it saves me a lot of 
grief when dealing with my clients who can be running any of them...

regards, mikesz


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Tue Jan  9 08:52:27 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 08:52:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <45A32A15.8040309@qualityadvantages.com>
References: <45A07475.7090208@cyberxdesigns.com>	<9BE9F39C-B48D-48A6-9803-429DFB2EA744@jonbaer.com>	<45A1C54A.4090707@cyberxdesigns.com>	<45A1C6CF.8010603@cyberxdesigns.com>	<9251B575-20B6-422E-8DC9-5FC82D910540@jonbaer.com>	<45A32140.4080407@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<45A32A15.8040309@qualityadvantages.com>
Message-ID: <45A39E1B.1040402@cyberxdesigns.com>

mikesz at qualityadvantages.com wrote:
> Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>
>> Well, I did finally get a copy of MySQL 4.0.x installed on my 
>> computer.  It looks like the tables are really corrupt.   The iasmchk 
>> utility wasn't able to recover them.  I am kinda bummed but live and 
>> learn.  Now I have MySQL 4.0.x, 4.1.x and 5.0.x installed on my 
>> computer just for this case.
>>
>> When I ran ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM  in MySQL 4.0 it 
>> wiped the tables clean.  They showed no records.
>>
>> When I ran ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM  in MySQL 4.1 or 5.0 
>> I got the same silly error I was getting earlier from MySQL.
>>
>> Thank for the help guys.
>> Hans
>>
>> Jon Baer wrote:
>>
>>> Actually after reading your original email all you need to do is a 
>>> bulk search/replace and change ...
>>>
>>>>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users TYPE = MYISAM
>>>>
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>>> ALTER TABLE phpbb_users ENGINE = MYISAM
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 1963 (20070108) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
> What happened when you ran "ALTER TABLE phpbb_users ENGINE = MYISAM" 
> as suggested?
>
> I also have 40, 41 and 50 running on my system and it saves me a lot 
> of grief when dealing with my clients who can be running any of them...
>
> regards, mikesz
>

I meant to say that when I ran ALTER TABLE phpbb_users ENGINE = MYISAM 
on 4.0 it wiped any data that was in the tables out of them and returned 
an empty myi file. 

Hans
A little fun from a NJ web design company, http://www.cyberxdesigns.com


From randalrust at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 10:13:31 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:13:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Restricting page and record access with LDAP
Message-ID: <a9caffe50701090713y74f462cfs55a39243d3b0aef2@mail.gmail.com>

In the LDAP system that I am working on, we have a deliverable in the
statement of work that says, "Convert existing iPlanet access controls
to OpenLDAP access controls." I am sort of assuming that this refers
to Access Control Lists, but I am not 100% sure (I am flying solo on
this because the LDAP developer left the company and they have not
replaced him).

Not knowing anything about ACLs, I can only refer to my experience
with other PHP/MySQL applications that I have built, where we create
user groups and grant permissions based on the group the user is
assigned to.

>From what I have been able to gather during reading, it's not going to
be as simple as taking the ACL from iPlanet and moving it over to
OpenLDAP (which is what I'm sure my bosses and the client probably
think).

I can see in the slapd.conf file that I have how the ACL is set up for
the root user that we have. But here is what I am looking for:

1. How do I setup permissions for a user when I first add them to the
system? When a person is added, they are assigned to an organization,
which is part of their DN. A user should be able to modify the data
for the organization they are assigned to, along with any child
organizations/records.

2. There is a object in the directory called "ldapaccess." It has an
attribute called "uniqueMember" that contains a list of all of the
authorized users. When someone logs in, I can check their
username/password against the record where that is stored, but I don't
quite see how this ldapaccess thing comes into play.

-- 
Randal Rust


From tedd at sperling.com  Tue Jan  9 10:19:56 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:19:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
In-Reply-To: <5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>
	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c1c960991409@[192.168.1.101]>

At 9:46 PM -0500 1/4/07, Greg Rundlett wrote:
>On 1/4/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>A helpful HTML guru has given me the solution to my height-dont-work
>>problem in IE 6.
>>
>>The guru is.... (drumroll)  Tom Melendez of LIPHP fame.  He pointed out
>>that changing the document type declaration to "quirks" mode makes IE
>>work, instantly fixing the problem.
>>
>>For completeness, here is a simplified snipeet that illustrates the
>>fixed situation:
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>><html>
>><head>
>>    <style>
>>    html, body {
>>       height: 100%;
>>       width: 100%;
>>       margin: 0px;
>>    }
>>    </style>
>></head>
>><body>
>><center>
>>    <table cellspacing=0
>>           style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=red>a </td></tr>
>>    <tr><td>hello </td></tr>
>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=blue>b </td></tr>
>>    </table>
>></center>
>></body>
>>
>>
>
>
>I don't mean to be picky, but if you post a 'solution' then it ought
>to be or attempt to be syntactically correct.  The simple snippet
>above gets lazy about quoting attributes, ending semi-colons and the
>type attribute is even missing from the <style> tag not to mention a
>missing </html> tag.  Your point is made about doctype declarations,
>but the code example would lead a newbie to believe that tag soup is
>acceptable to 'gurus'.  All I had to do to produce the version below
>was run it through tidy -im -ashtml /tmp/tmp.html
>
>-snip-
>
>Greg

Hi all:

In addition, I don't mean to be picky either, but the example is: a) 
using a table to display other than table stuff; b) embedding css 
(nothing really wrong with it other than it could be made 
unobtrusive); c) placing design attributes within tags, which 
certainly belong in a css file; d) and, has an incomplete DOCTYPE.

It's hard to do build something strong, when you have a poor foundation.

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From ken at secdat.com  Tue Jan  9 11:56:10 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:56:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c1c960991409@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1c960991409@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>

Next time I'll put "simplified snippet" in bold 36pt, and I probably 
should have included the standard disclaimer, "for illustrative 
purposes" along with "strict compliance is left as an exercise to the 
student".

...but if we're going to be picky, the best argument is working code, 
how about somebody posts the DIV/CSS code that does the same thing?  
I've heard from more than one person who has obviously read the blogs 
that tell them to use CSS2, but nobody has yet supplied any working 
code.   A lot of people helped me with this little problem, and now my 
customers are enjoying the benefits, but none of that help came from the 
nit-pickers.

I'll be very happy to post a "And the HTML CSS guru is..." as soon as 
somebody posts the CSS2 code that does the same thing.  I'll even buy 
you a drink at Friday's after the next meeting.  This is not a nasty 
I-don't-think-you-can-do-it challenge, its just that I'm not an HTML 
guru, that's why I asked for help.  As soon as somebody can show the 
code I'd be extremely happy, I'll use it from now on.  I'll be so glad 
I'll buy you a drink.  Shoot, I even offered in the post to pay, and 
nobody came up with anything.  The scientist in me wonders if it can 
actually be done.


tedd wrote:
> At 9:46 PM -0500 1/4/07, Greg Rundlett wrote:
>> On 1/4/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> A helpful HTML guru has given me the solution to my height-dont-work
>>> problem in IE 6.
>>>
>>> The guru is.... (drumroll)  Tom Melendez of LIPHP fame.  He pointed out
>>> that changing the document type declaration to "quirks" mode makes IE
>>> work, instantly fixing the problem.
>>>
>>> For completeness, here is a simplified snipeet that illustrates the
>>> fixed situation:
>>>
>>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>>> <html>
>>> <head>
>>>    <style>
>>>    html, body {
>>>       height: 100%;
>>>       width: 100%;
>>>       margin: 0px;
>>>    }
>>>    </style>
>>> </head>
>>> <body>
>>> <center>
>>>    <table cellspacing=0
>>>           style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
>>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=red>a </td></tr>
>>>    <tr><td>hello </td></tr>
>>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=blue>b </td></tr>
>>>    </table>
>>> </center>
>>> </body>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I don't mean to be picky, but if you post a 'solution' then it ought
>> to be or attempt to be syntactically correct.  The simple snippet
>> above gets lazy about quoting attributes, ending semi-colons and the
>> type attribute is even missing from the <style> tag not to mention a
>> missing </html> tag.  Your point is made about doctype declarations,
>> but the code example would lead a newbie to believe that tag soup is
>> acceptable to 'gurus'.  All I had to do to produce the version below
>> was run it through tidy -im -ashtml /tmp/tmp.html
>>
>> -snip-
>>
>> Greg
>
> Hi all:
>
> In addition, I don't mean to be picky either, but the example is: a) 
> using a table to display other than table stuff; b) embedding css 
> (nothing really wrong with it other than it could be made 
> unobtrusive); c) placing design attributes within tags, which 
> certainly belong in a css file; d) and, has an incomplete DOCTYPE.
>
> It's hard to do build something strong, when you have a poor foundation.
>
> tedd
>

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070109/2aa56d91/attachment.vcf>

From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 12:27:31 2007
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:27:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CakePHP and HTTP Auth
In-Reply-To: <3DA8EFED-C3AF-4EE9-A9E5-DFA1C4AF719E@jonbaer.com>
References: <459D37EB.9030400@dailytechnology.net>
	<3DA8EFED-C3AF-4EE9-A9E5-DFA1C4AF719E@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <4b1887110701090927s71a4bed2j24ed034a665f1a22@mail.gmail.com>

Jon,

Should I point you to the correct acquisitions editor? ;-)

Regards,
jeff

On 1/5/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
> I think this depends on what you are comparing it to, Ive heard the
> same discussion come up @ least twice before in comparison to Rails
> and its worth pointing out that the Ruby language in and of itself
> comes with both a) documentation tool (rdoc) and b) unit testing
> framework already.
>
> IMHO, What is really needed is an O'Reilly CakePHP In A Nutshell book
> for 1.2.
>
> - Jon
>
> On Jan 4, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Brian Dailey wrote:
>
> > <rant>
> > By the way, this is my biggest complaint with Cake. Documentation.
> > Relying on the "shotgun documentation", leaving little bits and
> > pieces here and there (wiki, google groups, irc) is killing me. The
> > more time I spend trying to figure out how do to something that
> > should be relatively simple, the less beneficial it is for me to
> > use Cake. It's a great system, but man, the documentation is
> > horrendous.
> > </rant>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > - Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer
The NewNewMedia Group
http://www.newnewmedia.com


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jan  9 14:26:13 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:26:13 -0800
Subject: WAS Re: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is.... NOW about Behavor Driven
	vs test Driven development
In-Reply-To: <45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1c960991409@[192.168.1.101]>
	<45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <25671-88996@sneakemail.com>

Kenneth Downs ken-at-secdat.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>   Shoot, I even offered in the post to pay, and nobody came up with 
> anything.  The scientist in me wonders if it can actually be done.

Nope. Seems pretty clear ;-)

And being a businessman (who often works scientists), I'll raise 
awareness of the sunk cost effect syndrome here, and encourage everyone 
to move along to the next great advance.

On a related topic, I've started looking at behavior-driven development 
(an "advance" from test driven development) and I like the concepts, but 
as usual there is "good coding" and all sorts of other things getting 
labeled as examples of behavior-driven development. It's great that more 
structure moves the new Javascript out of the html and into the CSS, but 
hat is real Bahevaior-Driven development to a PHP developer?

Anyone of you serious development guys able to sumarize where we are 
right now with test vs behavior driven ?



-=john andrews

Note to those who hate it when I REPLY to something with a different 
topic... it's like a conversation. Everyone's talking about the latest 
social flub at the International Curling Tournament, and then someone 
jumps in with a comment about that sexy Italian downhill skier. Yes, 
it's OT but hey, it's was remotely related, and it did stop the 
incessant chat about curling.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From jeff.knight at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 14:52:20 2007
From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:52:20 -0600
Subject: WAS Re: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is.... NOW about Behavor
	Driven vs test Driven development
In-Reply-To: <25671-88996@sneakemail.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>
	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1c960991409@192.168.1.101> <45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>
	<25671-88996@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <2ca9ba910701091152u28e2d38cm8539dd29dc2c45e2@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/9/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> Note to those who hate it when I REPLY to something with a different
> topic... it's like a conversation. Everyone's talking about the latest
> social flub at the International Curling Tournament, and then someone
> jumps in with a comment about that sexy Italian downhill skier. Yes,
> it's OT but hey, it's was remotely related, and it did stop the
> incessant chat about curling.

Your replies whether on topic or not, always break gmail's threading.
So for me, at least, they always stand as little islands of whatever
the hell they are anyway.


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jan  9 16:32:34 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:32:34 -0800
Subject: [OT]              Re: WAS Re: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
	NOW about Behavor	Driven vs test Driven development
In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910701091152u28e2d38cm8539dd29dc2c45e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1c960991409@192.168.1.101>
	<45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>	<25671-88996@sneakemail.com>
	<2ca9ba910701091152u28e2d38cm8539dd29dc2c45e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2486-64239@sneakemail.com>

Jeff Knight jeff.knight-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> On 1/9/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
> Your replies whether on topic or not, always break gmail's threading.
> So for me, at least, they always stand as little islands of whatever
> the hell they are anyway. 

That's just an attention-getting tactic anyway.

Actually it's because I use a mail forwarder, and mailman doesn't allow 
me to post from anything but the original email address (which is 
imossible) or I donate my true email addresses to spam world (no thanks) 
or NYPHP gets a better mailer (not holding breath) or ......





From ken at secdat.com  Tue Jan  9 16:54:37 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:54:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110701081953h589cfdbdq54a34511a9bf0e66@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070108041015.8D9D310A806D@cakephp.org>	<C882B042-9538-4483-B6EE-6DDDA3181229@cakephp.org>	<d2969d250701080412t30b6e3dcue097b0aec7735363@mail.gmail.com>	<4B3350DE-5F82-434C-ABEB-3F347A37906D@jonbaer.com>	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0701081521210.76149@emra.pair.com>	<45A2B405.7070803@dailytechnology.net>
	<4b1887110701081953h589cfdbdq54a34511a9bf0e66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45A40F1D.6060608@secdat.com>

Jeff Loiselle wrote:
> To insert a purely technical explanation...
>
> CakePHP is the shit. It may be a little unwieldy at first, but it is
> capable of great things. As with anything, read the source code. If
> you're not willing to read the source code, a framework will never
> really be any good to you except for basic things. Figure it out.
> Contribute.

Jeff, I can't tell if you're trolling for flames here. 

Your sentiments reflect a mindset that I find not useful in business.  
It is not that I agree or disagree, it is more that the mindset has no 
place in a commercial venture.  Consider this mindset applied to PHP, we 
can take your sentence above and get this:

"If you're not willing to read the source code, PHP will never really be 
any good to you..."

For most of us this is crazy, we don't look at the source to PHP (or 
apache, or mysql, or linux...).  We don't need to because these are 
examples of successful 'black box' technologies, they work without you 
needing to know what's going on inside of them.

Would you tell your users that they won't get much use of your programs 
unless they read the source?

A framework cannot be a mainstream success until it is a black box, you 
download it, read the instructions, and it works as promised.  Until it 
can do that, there is an entire world of users that simply cannot ever 
use it. 

This is neither bad nor good.  Some products never go mainstream but are 
happily used.  At least I suppose there are, I've never actually heard 
of one.

This also does not mean the package will not someday become mainstream, 
only that it cannot yet.  Once it can be successfully used as a black 
box -- by downloading, reading the instructions, and watching everything 
work as promised -- then it has a *chance* against all of the other 
competing packages in that category.

I don't know what Nate hopes for for Cake.  If he wants it to be 
big-time mainstream, and users are complaining that the install doesn't 
work, he might want to fix it himself.  If big-time mainstream is not 
the goal, he can say to the complainer, "Hey, what do you want for 
free?"  I suspect the original rant from the OP was based on a 
disconnect between claims on the web site that implied black-box level 
maturity versus running into points where he had no guidance or 
instructions, robbing him of what he had been "promised" (Disclaimer: I 
can only guess on this, I'm not saying either case is the truth).



>
> Oh right, and I wrote an experimental Oracle driver for it. The latest
> driver is in the 1.2.x.x branch (not trunk)... Do my QA for me. :-)
>
> In the words of Borat, "frameworks are niiiice."
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070109/d681821b/attachment.vcf>

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 20:33:31 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:33:31 -0500
Subject: WAS Re: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is.... NOW about Behavor
	Driven vs test Driven development
In-Reply-To: <25671-88996@sneakemail.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>
	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1c960991409@192.168.1.101> <45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>
	<25671-88996@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701091733s6d749563wf8650966ef6b9bdc@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/9/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:

> On a related topic, I've started looking at behavior-driven development
> (an "advance" from test driven development) and I like the concepts, but
> as usual there is "good coding" and all sorts of other things getting
> labeled as examples of behavior-driven development. It's great that more
> structure moves the new Javascript out of the html and into the CSS, but
> hat is real Bahevaior-Driven development to a PHP developer?

Um, would that be like making storyboards? Because that's what we used
to do back before we wrote tests for everything first. Or maybe I'm
confused, and that was Narrative Driven Development.

Or do you mean the so-called "behavior" approach to front-end
programming, where the class attributes of objects in markup are used
to create JavaScript objects on page load? Saves a lot of code, but
the routines used to find objects by class name are notoriously slow.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From chuck at horde.org  Wed Jan 10 00:30:09 2007
From: chuck at horde.org (Chuck Hagenbuch)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:30:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Horde Presentation - Your input requested!
Message-ID: <20070110003009.3fbuhd6toe8o0g44@technest.org>

Hi folks-

I'd just like to ping the list in advance of the upcoming Horde  
Framework presentation to invite any specific questions that people  
would like addresses. Obviously questions at the presentation are fine  
as well, but requests for demos of certain features or applications,  
or questions, etc., are all things that I'd be happy to prepare more  
in advance for.

Thanks!

-chuck

-- 
"we are plastered to the windshield of the bus that is time." - Chris


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jan 10 01:44:38 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:44:38 -0800
Subject: WAS Re: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is.... NOW about Behavor
	Driven vs test Driven development
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701091733s6d749563wf8650966ef6b9bdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1c960991409@192.168.1.101>
	<45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>	<25671-88996@sneakemail.com>
	<b76252690701091733s6d749563wf8650966ef6b9bdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7996-87096@sneakemail.com>

csnyder chsnyder-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> On 1/9/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
> Or do you mean the so-called "behavior" approach to front-end
> programming, where the class attributes of objects in markup are used
> to create JavaScript objects on page load? Saves a lot of code, but
> the routines used to find objects by class name are notoriously slow.
>

yeah, that's the one. Do we expect the "slowness" to improve with age? 
The idea of keeping the presentation js separate from the behavior js is 
as nice as it was when we did it to the HTML.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From jhy2104 at columbia.edu  Wed Jan 10 09:31:35 2007
From: jhy2104 at columbia.edu (Dave Youn)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:31:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Org Chart Application/Library
Message-ID: <C1CA62F7.BAFB%jhy2104@columbia.edu>

Does anyone know of a PHP application/library to create a graphical
Organizational chart from a database?

Dave




From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Jan 10 10:36:21 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:36:21 -0500
Subject: WAS Re: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is.... NOW about Behavor
	Driven vs test Driven development
In-Reply-To: <7996-87096@sneakemail.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>
	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1c960991409@192.168.1.101> <45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>
	<25671-88996@sneakemail.com>
	<b76252690701091733s6d749563wf8650966ef6b9bdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<7996-87096@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701100736r2cb2e76sc650a44e349a2d25@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/10/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> csnyder chsnyder-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
>
> > On 1/9/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Or do you mean the so-called "behavior" approach to front-end
> > programming, where the class attributes of objects in markup are used
> > to create JavaScript objects on page load? Saves a lot of code, but
> > the routines used to find objects by class name are notoriously slow.
> >
>
> yeah, that's the one. Do we expect the "slowness" to improve with age?
> The idea of keeping the presentation js separate from the behavior js is
> as nice as it was when we did it to the HTML.

Or maybe we shouldn't uses classes for behavior:
http://unspace.ca/discover/attributes/


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Wed Jan 10 10:55:42 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:55:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is....
In-Reply-To: <45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1c960991409@[192.168.1.101]>
	<45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <45A50C7E.8030203@beaffinitive.com>

Umm... and I a guru??  ;)
-Rob

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" 
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" >
<head>
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/>
  <title>Table to Div Test</title>
  <style type="text/css">
    html, body {
      height: 100%;
    }
    body {
      margin: 0;
      padding: 0;
    }
    #wrapper {
      min-height: 100%;
      margin: 0 auto;
      position: relative;
      width: 500px;
    }
    #top {
      background-color: red;
      height: 100px;
    }
    #middle {
      padding-bottom: 100px;
    }
    #bottom {
      background-color: blue;
      bottom: 0;
      height: 100px;
      position: absolute;
      width: 100%;
    }
  </style>
  <!--[if lt IE 7]>
  <style type="text/css" title="iehacks">
    #wrapper {
      height: 100%;
    }
  </style>
  <![endif]-->
</head>
<body>
<div id="wrapper">
  <div id="top">a</div>
  <div id="middle">hello</div>
  <div id="bottom">b</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>


Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Next time I'll put "simplified snippet" in bold 36pt, and I probably 
> should have included the standard disclaimer, "for illustrative 
> purposes" along with "strict compliance is left as an exercise to the 
> student".
>
> ...but if we're going to be picky, the best argument is working code, 
> how about somebody posts the DIV/CSS code that does the same thing?  
> I've heard from more than one person who has obviously read the blogs 
> that tell them to use CSS2, but nobody has yet supplied any working 
> code.   A lot of people helped me with this little problem, and now my 
> customers are enjoying the benefits, but none of that help came from 
> the nit-pickers.
>
> I'll be very happy to post a "And the HTML CSS guru is..." as soon as 
> somebody posts the CSS2 code that does the same thing.  I'll even buy 
> you a drink at Friday's after the next meeting.  This is not a nasty 
> I-don't-think-you-can-do-it challenge, its just that I'm not an HTML 
> guru, that's why I asked for help.  As soon as somebody can show the 
> code I'd be extremely happy, I'll use it from now on.  I'll be so glad 
> I'll buy you a drink.  Shoot, I even offered in the post to pay, and 
> nobody came up with anything.  The scientist in me wonders if it can 
> actually be done.
>
>
> tedd wrote:
>> At 9:46 PM -0500 1/4/07, Greg Rundlett wrote:
>>> On 1/4/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> A helpful HTML guru has given me the solution to my height-dont-work
>>>> problem in IE 6.
>>>>
>>>> The guru is.... (drumroll)  Tom Melendez of LIPHP fame.  He pointed 
>>>> out
>>>> that changing the document type declaration to "quirks" mode makes IE
>>>> work, instantly fixing the problem.
>>>>
>>>> For completeness, here is a simplified snipeet that illustrates the
>>>> fixed situation:
>>>>
>>>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>>>> <html>
>>>> <head>
>>>>    <style>
>>>>    html, body {
>>>>       height: 100%;
>>>>       width: 100%;
>>>>       margin: 0px;
>>>>    }
>>>>    </style>
>>>> </head>
>>>> <body>
>>>> <center>
>>>>    <table cellspacing=0
>>>>           style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
>>>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=red>a </td></tr>
>>>>    <tr><td>hello </td></tr>
>>>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=blue>b </td></tr>
>>>>    </table>
>>>> </center>
>>>> </body>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't mean to be picky, but if you post a 'solution' then it ought
>>> to be or attempt to be syntactically correct.  The simple snippet
>>> above gets lazy about quoting attributes, ending semi-colons and the
>>> type attribute is even missing from the <style> tag not to mention a
>>> missing </html> tag.  Your point is made about doctype declarations,
>>> but the code example would lead a newbie to believe that tag soup is
>>> acceptable to 'gurus'.  All I had to do to produce the version below
>>> was run it through tidy -im -ashtml /tmp/tmp.html
>>>
>>> -snip-
>>>
>>> Greg
>>
>> Hi all:
>>
>> In addition, I don't mean to be picky either, but the example is: a) 
>> using a table to display other than table stuff; b) embedding css 
>> (nothing really wrong with it other than it could be made 
>> unobtrusive); c) placing design attributes within tags, which 
>> certainly belong in a css file; d) and, has an incomplete DOCTYPE.
>>
>> It's hard to do build something strong, when you have a poor foundation.
>>
>> tedd


From nate at cakephp.org  Wed Jan 10 11:33:04 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:33:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <20070110153236.4F05D10A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070110153236.4F05D10A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <DDBD1582-3A1D-4E51-BB7F-6BCF8421EFC6@cakephp.org>

Okay, I need to interject here, because I really don't think that's  
what Jeff is saying.  I think Jeff is saying what I'm saying, which  
is if you'd like to dig into the source code to help us improve and  
expand on our documentation, that would be really *really* helpful.   
Also, I really didn't want to get into this in my response to the  
original post, because there's really no way I can say this without  
being really insulting, but the fact is that I've never encountered  
such an utter lack of comprehension in all my time of providing  
support for Cake.

The page described in the original post ('but when I attempted to run  
it, I get  a "Your database configuration file is not present."') is  
the welcome page.  It means that he *already* installed Cake, and  
everything worked correctly (which is kind of redundant, since there  
is no installation, you just extract the archive to a folder in your  
docroot).  This welcome page (and subsequent error pages) spells out  
in painfully explicit detail what needs to happen in order for the  
situation to be remedied.

- Nate

> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:54:37 -0500
> From: Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com>
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
>
> Jeff Loiselle wrote:
>> To insert a purely technical explanation...
>>
>> CakePHP is the shit. It may be a little unwieldy at first, but it is
>> capable of great things. As with anything, read the source code. If
>> you're not willing to read the source code, a framework will never
>> really be any good to you except for basic things. Figure it out.
>> Contribute.
>
> Jeff, I can't tell if you're trolling for flames here.
>
> Your sentiments reflect a mindset that I find not useful in business.
> It is not that I agree or disagree, it is more that the mindset has no
> place in a commercial venture.  Consider this mindset applied to  
> PHP, we
> can take your sentence above and get this:
>
> "If you're not willing to read the source code, PHP will never  
> really be
> any good to you..."
>
> For most of us this is crazy, we don't look at the source to PHP (or
> apache, or mysql, or linux...).  We don't need to because these are
> examples of successful 'black box' technologies, they work without you
> needing to know what's going on inside of them.
>
> Would you tell your users that they won't get much use of your  
> programs
> unless they read the source?
>
> A framework cannot be a mainstream success until it is a black box,  
> you
> download it, read the instructions, and it works as promised.   
> Until it
> can do that, there is an entire world of users that simply cannot ever
> use it.
>
> This is neither bad nor good.  Some products never go mainstream  
> but are
> happily used.  At least I suppose there are, I've never actually heard
> of one.
>
> This also does not mean the package will not someday become  
> mainstream,
> only that it cannot yet.  Once it can be successfully used as a black
> box -- by downloading, reading the instructions, and watching  
> everything
> work as promised -- then it has a *chance* against all of the other
> competing packages in that category.
>
> I don't know what Nate hopes for for Cake.  If he wants it to be
> big-time mainstream, and users are complaining that the install  
> doesn't
> work, he might want to fix it himself.  If big-time mainstream is not
> the goal, he can say to the complainer, "Hey, what do you want for
> free?"  I suspect the original rant from the OP was based on a
> disconnect between claims on the web site that implied black-box level
> maturity versus running into points where he had no guidance or
> instructions, robbing him of what he had been  
> "promised" (Disclaimer: I
> can only guess on this, I'm not saying either case is the truth).



From nate at cakephp.org  Wed Jan 10 11:46:46 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:46:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CakePHP and HTTP Auth
In-Reply-To: <20070110153236.4F05D10A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070110153236.4F05D10A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <21863A52-59C5-4BF2-ABE3-89CEEFB80CBB@cakephp.org>

Workin' on it ;-)

> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:27:31 -0500
> From: "Jeff Loiselle" <jeff.loiselle at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] CakePHP and HTTP Auth
>
> Jon,
>
> Should I point you to the correct acquisitions editor? ;-)
>
> Regards,
> jeff
>
> On 1/5/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
>> I think this depends on what you are comparing it to, Ive heard the
>> same discussion come up @ least twice before in comparison to Rails
>> and its worth pointing out that the Ruby language in and of itself
>> comes with both a) documentation tool (rdoc) and b) unit testing
>> framework already.
>>
>> IMHO, What is really needed is an O'Reilly CakePHP In A Nutshell book
>> for 1.2.
>>
>> - Jon


From jbaer at VillageVoice.com  Wed Jan 10 13:06:16 2007
From: jbaer at VillageVoice.com (Baer, Jon)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:06:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ism tables.
In-Reply-To: <45A39E1B.1040402@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24503FBEB2A@mail>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>> I meant to say that when I ran ALTER TABLE phpbb_users ENGINE =
MYISAM on 4.0 it wiped any data that was in the tables out of them and
returned an empty myi file. <<<

Very nice ... Sorry about that ... my new sig when giving advice ...
"WARNING: Don't try this at home or work."

- - Jon
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFFpSsY99e5DI8C/rsRAtMxAKDMXK8dK4DYc5+fl3BgKmpEy/dQewCghs1g
vd2+YzSgKy4fCDpY4O8Tchk=
=37il
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jan 10 14:55:04 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:55:04 -0800
Subject: WAS Re: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML guru is.... NOW about Behavor
	Driven vs test Driven development
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701100736r2cb2e76sc650a44e349a2d25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1c960991409@192.168.1.101>
	<45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>	<25671-88996@sneakemail.com>	<b76252690701091733s6d749563wf8650966ef6b9bdc@mail.gmail.com>	<7996-87096@sneakemail.com>
	<b76252690701100736r2cb2e76sc650a44e349a2d25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <32255-88391@sneakemail.com>

csnyder chsnyder-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> On 1/10/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>> csnyder chsnyder-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
>>
>> > On 1/9/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Or do you mean the so-called "behavior" approach to front-end
>> > programming, where the class attributes of objects in markup are used
>> > to create JavaScript objects on page load? Saves a lot of code, but
>> > the routines used to find objects by class name are notoriously slow.
>> >
>>
>> yeah, that's the one. Do we expect the "slowness" to improve with age?
>> The idea of keeping the presentation js separate from the behavior js is
>> as nice as it was when we did it to the HTML.
>
>
> Or maybe we shouldn't uses classes for behavior:
> http://unspace.ca/discover/attributes/ 

Thanks Chris. I had apparently been reading people who read that 
article. It was better.

It's obvious once again: one needs to be an expert at everything to be 
good at the web. I know I will never do well with js, so I will continue 
to do things the way the XXXXX library allows me to, and then move on 
again next time.

That makes me more of a novice than ever before. Yeah. Another year older.

-=john

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Wed Jan 10 21:11:34 2007
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:11:34 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <DDBD1582-3A1D-4E51-BB7F-6BCF8421EFC6@cakephp.org>
References: <20070110153236.4F05D10A806D@cakephp.org>
	<DDBD1582-3A1D-4E51-BB7F-6BCF8421EFC6@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <45A59CD6.5030501@qualityadvantages.com>

Nate Abele wrote:

"The page described in the original post ('but when I attempted to run  
it, I get  a "Your database configuration file is not present."') is  
the welcome page.  It means that he *already* installed Cake, and  
everything worked correctly (which is kind of redundant, since there  is 
no installation, you just extract the archive to a folder in your  
docroot).  This welcome page (and subsequent error pages) spells out  in 
painfully explicit detail what needs to happen in order for the  
situation to be remedied."

Does anyone else see a PROBLEM with this? I installed the product from 
ONLY the DISTRIBUTION and no other instructions becuase the instructions 
are SUPPOSE to be in the package. According to this EXPLANATION.  *I* as 
the end user am suppose to figure out from the moronic error message 
that I have installed the product correctly! MOST but apparently not ALL 
products when you install them correctly come back with a 
"Congratulations" message. This product developer in his infinite wisdom 
has decided that an ERROR condition is more appropriate to encourage his 
users to what is unclear?

Somebody needs to go back to support 101 because the missed the class on 
how to figure out what an end user is and how to provide appropriate 
support for that group as have been alluded to in previous responses.

One this this end user for sure DOES NOT do is waste my valuable time on 
convoluted nonsense like this explanation has provided. With over twenty 
five years of experience in and around Quality Assurance and Customer 
Support I can categorically state that this is YET ANOTHER case of an 
software engineer  who  has not or can not put himself in the end user  
position to experience the real world and does not use or test the 
product that he creates as an end user.

Blaming the victim is not a solution to bad product presentation.

regards, mikesz


From chris at theyellowbox.com  Wed Jan 10 22:11:19 2007
From: chris at theyellowbox.com (Chris Merlo)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:11:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <45A59CD6.5030501@qualityadvantages.com>
References: <20070110153236.4F05D10A806D@cakephp.org>
	<DDBD1582-3A1D-4E51-BB7F-6BCF8421EFC6@cakephp.org>
	<45A59CD6.5030501@qualityadvantages.com>
Message-ID: <946586480701101911i29046b00xfc588679eb0ed3ea@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/10/07, mikesz at qualityadvantages.com <mikesz at qualityadvantages.com>
wrote:

Blaming the victim is not a solution to bad product presentation.


Just FYI-
Throwing words like "moronic" around in a screed full of grammatical errors
and words typed LIKE THIS isn't likely to garner "victims" such as yourself
a lot of sympathy.  It is, however, a rather effective tool for getting
yourself included in people's e-mail blacklists.

There's a whiny way and a grown-up way.  That's all I'm saying.
-c
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070110/9c5797f4/attachment.html>

From dcech at phpwerx.net  Wed Jan 10 22:11:37 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:11:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <45A59CD6.5030501@qualityadvantages.com>
References: <20070110153236.4F05D10A806D@cakephp.org>	<DDBD1582-3A1D-4E51-BB7F-6BCF8421EFC6@cakephp.org>
	<45A59CD6.5030501@qualityadvantages.com>
Message-ID: <45A5AAE9.7050603@phpwerx.net>

> Nate Abele wrote:
> 
> "The page described in the original post ('but when I attempted to run 
> it, I get  a "Your database configuration file is not present."') is 
> the welcome page.  It means that he *already* installed Cake, and 
> everything worked correctly (which is kind of redundant, since there  is
> no installation, you just extract the archive to a folder in your 
> docroot).  This welcome page (and subsequent error pages) spells out  in
> painfully explicit detail what needs to happen in order for the 
> situation to be remedied." 

mikesz at qualityadvantages.com wrote:
> Somebody needs to go back to support 101 because the missed the class on
> how to figure out what an end user is and how to provide appropriate
> support for that group as have been alluded to in previous responses.
> 
> One this this end user for sure DOES NOT do is waste my valuable time on
> convoluted nonsense like this explanation has provided. With over twenty
> five years of experience in and around Quality Assurance and Customer
> Support I can categorically state that this is YET ANOTHER case of an
> software engineer  who  has not or can not put himself in the end user 
> position to experience the real world and does not use or test the
> product that he creates as an end user.
> 
> Blaming the victim is not a solution to bad product presentation.

To Mike, and all the other people who feel the need to complain,

GROW UP.  This is FREE, open source software.

Nate and all open source contributors give freely of their time and
expertise to help others.  If you're not happy with what they're giving
you FOR FREE, then you have 2 choices:

1. DON'T USE IT.  No-one is forcing you to use the software, so if you
don't like it then don't use it.

2. HELP OUT.  If you think that the project could be improved, then
knuckle down and get in there.  If you don't have the skills to help
out, there is no better time than now to learn.  If you're
non-technical, donations are welcomed by many projects, just because
open source software is provided to you for free it doesn't mean that it
doesn't cost anything.

You'll note that WHINE ABOUT IT is not one of the options.  It doesn't
do anyone any good, and this kind of feedback just makes those people
who are big hearted enough to actually CONTRIBUTE less likely to
continue doing it.

I am appalled that people would have such a lack of regard for the
efforts of good people like Nate that they feel the need to whine about
the 'level of support' for free software, or complain that it doesn't
work the way they expect, or that it's too hard to understand.

In short, put up or shut up.

Dan


From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Wed Jan 10 23:13:21 2007
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:13:21 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <45A5AAE9.7050603@phpwerx.net>
References: <20070110153236.4F05D10A806D@cakephp.org>	<DDBD1582-3A1D-4E51-BB7F-6BCF8421EFC6@cakephp.org>	<45A59CD6.5030501@qualityadvantages.com>
	<45A5AAE9.7050603@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <45A5B961.5050705@qualityadvantages.com>

Dan Cech wrote:

>>Nate Abele wrote:
>>
>>"The page described in the original post ('but when I attempted to run 
>>it, I get  a "Your database configuration file is not present."') is 
>>the welcome page.  It means that he *already* installed Cake, and 
>>everything worked correctly (which is kind of redundant, since there  is
>>no installation, you just extract the archive to a folder in your 
>>docroot).  This welcome page (and subsequent error pages) spells out  in
>>painfully explicit detail what needs to happen in order for the 
>>situation to be remedied." 
>>    
>>
>
>mikesz at qualityadvantages.com wrote:
>  
>
>>Somebody needs to go back to support 101 because the missed the class on
>>how to figure out what an end user is and how to provide appropriate
>>support for that group as have been alluded to in previous responses.
>>
>>One this this end user for sure DOES NOT do is waste my valuable time on
>>convoluted nonsense like this explanation has provided. With over twenty
>>five years of experience in and around Quality Assurance and Customer
>>Support I can categorically state that this is YET ANOTHER case of an
>>software engineer  who  has not or can not put himself in the end user 
>>position to experience the real world and does not use or test the
>>product that he creates as an end user.
>>
>>Blaming the victim is not a solution to bad product presentation.
>>    
>>
>
>To Mike, and all the other people who feel the need to complain,
>
>GROW UP.  This is FREE, open source software.
>
>Nate and all open source contributors give freely of their time and
>expertise to help others.  If you're not happy with what they're giving
>you FOR FREE, then you have 2 choices:
>
>1. DON'T USE IT.  No-one is forcing you to use the software, so if you
>don't like it then don't use it.
>
>2. HELP OUT.  If you think that the project could be improved, then
>knuckle down and get in there.  If you don't have the skills to help
>out, there is no better time than now to learn.  If you're
>non-technical, donations are welcomed by many projects, just because
>open source software is provided to you for free it doesn't mean that it
>doesn't cost anything.
>
>You'll note that WHINE ABOUT IT is not one of the options.  It doesn't
>do anyone any good, and this kind of feedback just makes those people
>who are big hearted enough to actually CONTRIBUTE less likely to
>continue doing it.
>
>I am appalled that people would have such a lack of regard for the
>efforts of good people like Nate that they feel the need to whine about
>the 'level of support' for free software, or complain that it doesn't
>work the way they expect, or that it's too hard to understand.
>
>In short, put up or shut up.
>
>Dan
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>__________ NOD32 1971 (20070110) Information __________
>
>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>  
>
Excuse me! But I didn't post "Cake is easy to understand and sets the 
industry standard in security authentication, and session handling, 
among other features." on my website, CAKE DID...

Someone needs to grow up for sure but I didn't write that. Don't make 
falacious claims and ridiculous statements, open source or not. If 
blacklisting is the penalty for telling the truth then so be it.

mikesz




From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Thu Jan 11 08:20:40 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:20:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fwd: PHPfr now open-source ... contribute!
References: <805C3EF2-CAE3-4A4C-A8A6-8BCD62B082A0@hedges.name>
Message-ID: <67DD1075-B21F-4DA8-9998-816CBBB0B720@jonbaer.com>

Not sure if anyone else uses this Widget, pretty handy for offline  
use.  I may hack up one for CakePHP if I can wrap my head around  
Dashcode.

- Jon

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Andrew Hedges <andrew at hedges.name>
> Subject: PHPfr now open-source ... contribute!
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wanted to let you all know that I have open-sourced PHP Function  
> Reference on Google Code.  I'm looking for one or more motivated  
> widget developers to join the project and help push it to 1.0 (it's  
> been stuck at the whimsically numbered 0.9.6.1b for about six  
> months now).
>
> Here's the URL for the project site:
>
>    http://code.google.com/p/phpfr/
>
> There's not a whole lot there yet (just one issue logged), but if  
> you're interested in working on it, email me and we can discuss  
> priorities for the 1.0 release.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Andrew
> -----
> andrew at hedges.name / http://andrew.hedges.name/
> _______________________________________________
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/0453b97c/attachment.html>

From nov842 at mac.com  Thu Jan 11 09:27:23 2007
From: nov842 at mac.com (Michael Novak)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:27:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fwd: PHPfr now open-source ... contribute!
Message-ID: <200701111427.l0BEQwkK014874@mac.com>

I am willing to help out. Please let me know what I can do.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jon Baer" <jonbaer at jonbaer.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: 1/11/2007 8:20 AM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fwd: PHPfr now open-source ... contribute!

Not sure if anyone else uses this Widget, pretty handy for offline  
use.  I may hack up one for CakePHP if I can wrap my head around  
Dashcode.

- Jon

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Andrew Hedges <andrew at hedges.name>
> Subject: PHPfr now open-source ... contribute!
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wanted to let you all know that I have open-sourced PHP Function  
> Reference on Google Code.  I'm looking for one or more motivated  
> widget developers to join the project and help push it to 1.0 (it's  
> been stuck at the whimsically numbered 0.9.6.1b for about six  
> months now).
>
> Here's the URL for the project site:
>
>    http://code.google.com/p/phpfr/
>
> There's not a whole lot there yet (just one issue logged), but if  
> you're interested in working on it, email me and we can discuss  
> priorities for the 1.0 release.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Andrew
> -----
> andrew at hedges.name / http://andrew.hedges.name/
> _______________________________________________
>




From ken at secdat.com  Thu Jan 11 09:36:36 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:36:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <DDBD1582-3A1D-4E51-BB7F-6BCF8421EFC6@cakephp.org>
References: <20070110153236.4F05D10A806D@cakephp.org>
	<DDBD1582-3A1D-4E51-BB7F-6BCF8421EFC6@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <45A64B74.2000200@secdat.com>

Nate Abele wrote:
> Okay, I need to interject here, because I really don't think that's 
> what Jeff is saying.  I think Jeff is saying what I'm saying, which is 
> if you'd like to dig into the source code to help us improve and 
> expand on our documentation, that would be really *really* helpful.

Fair enough.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/e7af3f69/attachment.vcf>

From ken at secdat.com  Thu Jan 11 09:42:34 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:42:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <45A50C7E.8030203@beaffinitive.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1c960991409@[192.168.1.101]>	<45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>
	<45A50C7E.8030203@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <45A64CDA.8010006@secdat.com>

According to my copy of Win 2003 and Firefox/linux, you are.  Thanks!

But here is a question, do you really need to wrap the IE 7 hack, is 
there harm in explicitly declaring that for all browsers?

Rob Marscher wrote:
> Umm... and I a guru??  ;)
> -Rob
>
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" 
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" >
> <head>
>  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/>
>  <title>Table to Div Test</title>
>  <style type="text/css">
>    html, body {
>      height: 100%;
>    }
>    body {
>      margin: 0;
>      padding: 0;
>    }
>    #wrapper {
>      min-height: 100%;
>      margin: 0 auto;
>      position: relative;
>      width: 500px;
>    }
>    #top {
>      background-color: red;
>      height: 100px;
>    }
>    #middle {
>      padding-bottom: 100px;
>    }
>    #bottom {
>      background-color: blue;
>      bottom: 0;
>      height: 100px;
>      position: absolute;
>      width: 100%;
>    }
>  </style>
>  <!--[if lt IE 7]>
>  <style type="text/css" title="iehacks">
>    #wrapper {
>      height: 100%;
>    }
>  </style>
>  <![endif]-->
> </head>
> <body>
> <div id="wrapper">
>  <div id="top">a</div>
>  <div id="middle">hello</div>
>  <div id="bottom">b</div>
> </div>
> </body>
> </html>
>
>
> Kenneth Downs wrote:
>> Next time I'll put "simplified snippet" in bold 36pt, and I probably 
>> should have included the standard disclaimer, "for illustrative 
>> purposes" along with "strict compliance is left as an exercise to the 
>> student".
>>
>> ...but if we're going to be picky, the best argument is working code, 
>> how about somebody posts the DIV/CSS code that does the same thing?  
>> I've heard from more than one person who has obviously read the blogs 
>> that tell them to use CSS2, but nobody has yet supplied any working 
>> code.   A lot of people helped me with this little problem, and now 
>> my customers are enjoying the benefits, but none of that help came 
>> from the nit-pickers.
>>
>> I'll be very happy to post a "And the HTML CSS guru is..." as soon as 
>> somebody posts the CSS2 code that does the same thing.  I'll even buy 
>> you a drink at Friday's after the next meeting.  This is not a nasty 
>> I-don't-think-you-can-do-it challenge, its just that I'm not an HTML 
>> guru, that's why I asked for help.  As soon as somebody can show the 
>> code I'd be extremely happy, I'll use it from now on.  I'll be so 
>> glad I'll buy you a drink.  Shoot, I even offered in the post to pay, 
>> and nobody came up with anything.  The scientist in me wonders if it 
>> can actually be done.
>>
>>
>> tedd wrote:
>>> At 9:46 PM -0500 1/4/07, Greg Rundlett wrote:
>>>> On 1/4/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> A helpful HTML guru has given me the solution to my height-dont-work
>>>>> problem in IE 6.
>>>>>
>>>>> The guru is.... (drumroll)  Tom Melendez of LIPHP fame.  He 
>>>>> pointed out
>>>>> that changing the document type declaration to "quirks" mode makes IE
>>>>> work, instantly fixing the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> For completeness, here is a simplified snipeet that illustrates the
>>>>> fixed situation:
>>>>>
>>>>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>>>>> <html>
>>>>> <head>
>>>>>    <style>
>>>>>    html, body {
>>>>>       height: 100%;
>>>>>       width: 100%;
>>>>>       margin: 0px;
>>>>>    }
>>>>>    </style>
>>>>> </head>
>>>>> <body>
>>>>> <center>
>>>>>    <table cellspacing=0
>>>>>           style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
>>>>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=red>a </td></tr>
>>>>>    <tr><td>hello </td></tr>
>>>>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=blue>b </td></tr>
>>>>>    </table>
>>>>> </center>
>>>>> </body>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't mean to be picky, but if you post a 'solution' then it ought
>>>> to be or attempt to be syntactically correct.  The simple snippet
>>>> above gets lazy about quoting attributes, ending semi-colons and the
>>>> type attribute is even missing from the <style> tag not to mention a
>>>> missing </html> tag.  Your point is made about doctype declarations,
>>>> but the code example would lead a newbie to believe that tag soup is
>>>> acceptable to 'gurus'.  All I had to do to produce the version below
>>>> was run it through tidy -im -ashtml /tmp/tmp.html
>>>>
>>>> -snip-
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>
>>> Hi all:
>>>
>>> In addition, I don't mean to be picky either, but the example is: a) 
>>> using a table to display other than table stuff; b) embedding css 
>>> (nothing really wrong with it other than it could be made 
>>> unobtrusive); c) placing design attributes within tags, which 
>>> certainly belong in a css file; d) and, has an incomplete DOCTYPE.
>>>
>>> It's hard to do build something strong, when you have a poor 
>>> foundation.
>>>
>>> tedd
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/61740e48/attachment.vcf>

From support at dailytechnology.net  Thu Jan 11 10:00:55 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:00:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP & EDI
Message-ID: <45A65127.3080209@dailytechnology.net>

Is anyone aware of an EDI parsing program similar to this:

http://edireader.sourceforge.net

...written in PHP? A Google search was unable to turn anything up.

Thanks,
Brian


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Jan 11 10:10:33 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:10:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL giveth, but sometimes only as source
Message-ID: <b76252690701110710j468b1572s7603f7cb4183c236@mail.gmail.com>

Catching up on blogs today, and saw Ilia's post[1] about the
source-only releases of MySQL Community Server. Perhaps this is old
news, but it seems that compiled binaries of MySQL are only going to
be available for *some* releases.

In other words, if you don't want to, or can't, build your own
binaries, you don't get 5.0.33.

Chances are that few of the people on this list really care about
running the absolute most up-to-date version of MySQL, and those that
do can almost certainly compile their own (or rely on package
maintainers to do it). So, just to save confusion on the download
page, if you can't find the binary you're looking for, it may only be
available as source.

[1] http://ilia.ws/archives/153-MySQL-5.0.33-Community-Server.html

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From nate at cakephp.org  Thu Jan 11 10:40:08 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:40:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't 	Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>

Ah, so you're a support puke, not an actual programmer.  Yeah, that  
explains a thing or two.

Anyway, in an effort to cut this discussion short, I'm going to  
simply suggest that you don't use Cake.  Not now, or at any point in  
the future.  I, as a core dev of the project, am telling you that no  
good can come of it.  And this way, if you continue to spout your  
unasked for, poorly reasoned, and grammatically incorrect opinions,  
the only reasonable conclusion one could reach is that you're a troll  
with a learning disability.

Have a nice day :-)

- Nate

> One this this end user for sure DOES NOT do is waste my valuable  
> time on
> convoluted nonsense like this explanation has provided. With over  
> twenty
> five years of experience in and around Quality Assurance and Customer
> Support I can categorically state that this is YET ANOTHER case of an
> software engineer  who  has not or can not put himself in the end user
> position to experience the real world and does not use or test the
> product that he creates as an end user.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/58c378a9/attachment.html>

From support at dailytechnology.net  Thu Jan 11 10:47:02 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:47:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't 	Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
References: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <45A65BF6.6050407@dailytechnology.net>

I feel bad for writing the email that unleashed all this.

So I donated to the Cake Foundation. ;-) From my own pocket, mind you, 
not my employer's. Cake's been worth it for me.

- Brian

Nate Abele wrote:
> Ah, so you're a support puke, not an actual programmer.  Yeah, that 
> explains a thing or two.
> 
> Anyway, in an effort to cut this discussion short, I'm going to simply 
> suggest that you don't use Cake.  Not now, or at any point in the 
> future.  I, as a core dev of the project, am telling you that no good 
> can come of it.  And this way, if you continue to spout your unasked 
> for, poorly reasoned, and grammatically incorrect opinions, the only 
> reasonable conclusion one could reach is that you're a troll with a 
> learning disability.
> 
> Have a nice day :-)
> 
> - Nate
> 
>> One this this end user for sure DOES NOT do is waste my valuable time on 
>> convoluted nonsense like this explanation has provided. With over twenty 
>> five years of experience in and around Quality Assurance and Customer 
>> Support I can categorically state that this is YET ANOTHER case of an 
>> software engineer  who  has not or can not put himself in the end user  
>> position to experience the real world and does not use or test the 
>> product that he creates as an end user.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Thu Jan 11 11:10:30 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:10:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <45A64CDA.8010006@secdat.com>
References: <459D0B5A.5080006@secdat.com>	<5e2aaca40701041846o64f6cc5di86de39eba5343337@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1c960991409@[192.168.1.101]>	<45A3C92A.1030600@secdat.com>	<45A50C7E.8030203@beaffinitive.com>
	<45A64CDA.8010006@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <45A66176.2090808@beaffinitive.com>

Yeah... the hack is necessary.  Fortunately, IE's conditional comments 
provide a clean way to add css hacks for IE.  <!--[if lt IE 7]> is a 
conditional comment that only IE recognizes... what it's saying is to 
apply the rule if the version of IE is less than IE 7... so it's 
targeting IE 6 and below.  IE7 implements the min-height css rule, but 
IE6 does not know what min-height is.

If you move that rule (height: 100%; for the #wrapper div) to the main 
css, then the footer will overlap the body if the height of your window 
is small enough in Firefox, IE 7, and other standards-compliant 
browsers.  The height: 100% works for IE6 because IE6 always 
automatically expands the height of an element to fit it's content 
whereas other browsers let the content spill out of the element if it 
doesn't fit into the defined height.

If you're interested in getting more into css/html, I learned a lot from 
the css-discuss mailing list and wiki here: http://css-discuss.incutio.com 
Here are some other sites with good articles:
http://www.contentwithstyle.co.uk
http://www.alistapart.com

Mike Stenhouse from Content with Style created a great css framework 
that allows you to not reinvent the wheel to do common layouts:
<http://www.contentwithstyle.co.uk/Articles/17/a-css-framework/>

I have to admit though... avoiding using tables for layout can really 
rack your brain in some situations and take more time to implement.  You 
get used to ways to solve certain problems after you've been doing it 
for a while though.  I've found a couple Firefox extensions to be 
indispensable:
Web Developer by Chris Pederick and HTML Validator by Marc Gueury

By the way, if want to use the code I supplied and you don't have your 
web server setup to serve pages as utf-8 and haven't saved your 
documents as utf-8, you should switch the meta tag back to iso-8859-1:
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"/>

Good luck!
-Rob


Kenneth Downs wrote:
> According to my copy of Win 2003 and Firefox/linux, you are.  Thanks!
>
> But here is a question, do you really need to wrap the IE 7 hack, is 
> there harm in explicitly declaring that for all browsers?
>
> Rob Marscher wrote:
>> Umm... and I a guru??  ;)
>> -Rob
>>
>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" 
>> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" >
>> <head>
>>  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/>
>>  <title>Table to Div Test</title>
>>  <style type="text/css">
>>    html, body {
>>      height: 100%;
>>    }
>>    body {
>>      margin: 0;
>>      padding: 0;
>>    }
>>    #wrapper {
>>      min-height: 100%;
>>      margin: 0 auto;
>>      position: relative;
>>      width: 500px;
>>    }
>>    #top {
>>      background-color: red;
>>      height: 100px;
>>    }
>>    #middle {
>>      padding-bottom: 100px;
>>    }
>>    #bottom {
>>      background-color: blue;
>>      bottom: 0;
>>      height: 100px;
>>      position: absolute;
>>      width: 100%;
>>    }
>>  </style>
>>  <!--[if lt IE 7]>
>>  <style type="text/css" title="iehacks">
>>    #wrapper {
>>      height: 100%;
>>    }
>>  </style>
>>  <![endif]-->
>> </head>
>> <body>
>> <div id="wrapper">
>>  <div id="top">a</div>
>>  <div id="middle">hello</div>
>>  <div id="bottom">b</div>
>> </div>
>> </body>
>> </html>
>>
>>
>> Kenneth Downs wrote:
>>> Next time I'll put "simplified snippet" in bold 36pt, and I probably 
>>> should have included the standard disclaimer, "for illustrative 
>>> purposes" along with "strict compliance is left as an exercise to 
>>> the student".
>>>
>>> ...but if we're going to be picky, the best argument is working 
>>> code, how about somebody posts the DIV/CSS code that does the same 
>>> thing?  I've heard from more than one person who has obviously read 
>>> the blogs that tell them to use CSS2, but nobody has yet supplied 
>>> any working code.   A lot of people helped me with this little 
>>> problem, and now my customers are enjoying the benefits, but none of 
>>> that help came from the nit-pickers.
>>>
>>> I'll be very happy to post a "And the HTML CSS guru is..." as soon 
>>> as somebody posts the CSS2 code that does the same thing.  I'll even 
>>> buy you a drink at Friday's after the next meeting.  This is not a 
>>> nasty I-don't-think-you-can-do-it challenge, its just that I'm not 
>>> an HTML guru, that's why I asked for help.  As soon as somebody can 
>>> show the code I'd be extremely happy, I'll use it from now on.  I'll 
>>> be so glad I'll buy you a drink.  Shoot, I even offered in the post 
>>> to pay, and nobody came up with anything.  The scientist in me 
>>> wonders if it can actually be done.
>>>
>>>
>>> tedd wrote:
>>>> At 9:46 PM -0500 1/4/07, Greg Rundlett wrote:
>>>>> On 1/4/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A helpful HTML guru has given me the solution to my height-dont-work
>>>>>> problem in IE 6.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The guru is.... (drumroll)  Tom Melendez of LIPHP fame.  He 
>>>>>> pointed out
>>>>>> that changing the document type declaration to "quirks" mode 
>>>>>> makes IE
>>>>>> work, instantly fixing the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For completeness, here is a simplified snipeet that illustrates the
>>>>>> fixed situation:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>>>>>> <html>
>>>>>> <head>
>>>>>>    <style>
>>>>>>    html, body {
>>>>>>       height: 100%;
>>>>>>       width: 100%;
>>>>>>       margin: 0px;
>>>>>>    }
>>>>>>    </style>
>>>>>> </head>
>>>>>> <body>
>>>>>> <center>
>>>>>>    <table cellspacing=0
>>>>>>           style="width: 500px; height: 100%;">
>>>>>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=red>a </td></tr>
>>>>>>    <tr><td>hello </td></tr>
>>>>>>    <tr><td style="height: 100px" bgcolor=blue>b </td></tr>
>>>>>>    </table>
>>>>>> </center>
>>>>>> </body>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't mean to be picky, but if you post a 'solution' then it ought
>>>>> to be or attempt to be syntactically correct.  The simple snippet
>>>>> above gets lazy about quoting attributes, ending semi-colons and the
>>>>> type attribute is even missing from the <style> tag not to mention a
>>>>> missing </html> tag.  Your point is made about doctype declarations,
>>>>> but the code example would lead a newbie to believe that tag soup is
>>>>> acceptable to 'gurus'.  All I had to do to produce the version below
>>>>> was run it through tidy -im -ashtml /tmp/tmp.html
>>>>>
>>>>> -snip-
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>> Hi all:
>>>>
>>>> In addition, I don't mean to be picky either, but the example is: 
>>>> a) using a table to display other than table stuff; b) embedding 
>>>> css (nothing really wrong with it other than it could be made 
>>>> unobtrusive); c) placing design attributes within tags, which 
>>>> certainly belong in a css file; d) and, has an incomplete DOCTYPE.
>>>>
>>>> It's hard to do build something strong, when you have a poor 
>>>> foundation.
>>>>
>>>> tedd



From nate at cakephp.org  Thu Jan 11 11:24:16 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:24:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't 	Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <20070111160618.EBD1410A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070111160618.EBD1410A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <C2694310-CD53-405C-B41A-7C726749E9AA@cakephp.org>

Heheh, the way I see it, it's kind of like raising kids: you're only  
responsible to a point.  After that, it's in God's hands. ;-)

Thanks for the donation, man.  We'll put it towards hours worked on  
documentation. :-)

- Nate

> I feel bad for writing the email that unleashed all this.
>
> So I donated to the Cake Foundation. ;-) From my own pocket, mind you,
> not my employer's. Cake's been worth it for me.
>
> - Brian

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/e1058bfc/attachment.html>

From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Jan 11 11:29:58 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:29:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <45A66176.2090808@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

>>I have to admit though... avoiding using tables for layout can really 
>>rack your brain in some situations and take more time to implement.

So what's wrong with tables for layout other than all that "not
semantically correct" religion stuff? It seems to me that both
approaches are essentially flawed as they both require hacks. It's hard
for me to justify css/div religion when the browser client space is
still so screwed up.

And -- get this -- I just read that Outlook 2007 dumped its IE HTML
rendering engine for Word's rendering engine, which will further break a
whole heck of a lot of html emails. 

See:
http://www.sitepoint.com/newsletter/viewissue.php?id=3&issue=156&format=
html#5

Cliff



From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Thu Jan 11 12:00:47 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:00:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>

Usually if you avoid using tables for layout, you can drastically change 
the layout of your page without altering the html.  If you keep to the 
indended use of the html tags, then the page should look somewhat ok if 
you turn off your styles altogether (which is maybe how it would look 
for someone using Netscape 4 or some other ancient browser).  You can 
also supply different layouts for other uses like printing or for mobile 
devices without changing the html.  I think screen readers for visually 
impaired people read table html elements expecting it to be some type of 
data.  I can't say that from experience though.  So if you don't really 
care about those things, I'm not sure there's anything else wrong with 
using tables for layout except you'll have young "know-it-alls" who just 
got out of their html development class saying that you have really bad 
code (happened to me before).  You also can't put those cool xhtml/css 
compliant badges on your page ;)

That's crazy about Outlook 2007.  It's extremely hard to make consistent 
looking html emails.  A lot of people require/expect them, but most web 
email clients will strip css and alter the html in other ways, plus 
pretty much none of them will display images without the user clicking a 
button to say it's ok.

 From the article, "Bring on PDF email. I'm ready." - that would be 
perfect except for the bloated file size of the email do to needing to 
embed images and everything in the pdf.

-Rob

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>>> I have to admit though... avoiding using tables for layout can really 
>>> rack your brain in some situations and take more time to implement.
>>>       
>
> So what's wrong with tables for layout other than all that "not
> semantically correct" religion stuff? It seems to me that both
> approaches are essentially flawed as they both require hacks. It's hard
> for me to justify css/div religion when the browser client space is
> still so screwed up.
>
> And -- get this -- I just read that Outlook 2007 dumped its IE HTML
> rendering engine for Word's rendering engine, which will further break a
> whole heck of a lot of html emails. 
>
> See:
> http://www.sitepoint.com/newsletter/viewissue.php?id=3&issue=156&format=
> html#5
>
> Cliff
>
>   


From volcimaster at gmail.com  Thu Jan 11 12:31:14 2007
From: volcimaster at gmail.com (Warren Myers)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:31:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <cd08a04c0701110931n19765f66r5df2b5de265467b8@mail.gmail.com>

I pretty much just use text email. The HTML formatting is nice for some
things, but most of what I write looks fine whether it's pure text or also
HTML.

My big reason for avoiding tables when at all possible is that I like
changing layouts on personal (and even some work) sites semi-frequently.
Even when it's just a bunch of color changes, the CSS aspects of my sites
make it a lot easier to accomplish than if I were using tables for layout.

Another important factor for me is that I like to split my pages in a
modular format: I have included menus, sidebars, headers, and footers all of
which are inside their own div. Not having to recall in which order the
tables need to be for that is incredibly useful.

WMM

On 1/11/07, Rob Marscher <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:
>
> Usually if you avoid using tables for layout, you can drastically change
> the layout of your page without altering the html.  If you keep to the
> indended use of the html tags, then the page should look somewhat ok if
> you turn off your styles altogether (which is maybe how it would look
> for someone using Netscape 4 or some other ancient browser).  You can
> also supply different layouts for other uses like printing or for mobile
> devices without changing the html.  I think screen readers for visually
> impaired people read table html elements expecting it to be some type of
> data.  I can't say that from experience though.  So if you don't really
> care about those things, I'm not sure there's anything else wrong with
> using tables for layout except you'll have young "know-it-alls" who just
> got out of their html development class saying that you have really bad
> code (happened to me before).  You also can't put those cool xhtml/css
> compliant badges on your page ;)
>
> That's crazy about Outlook 2007.  It's extremely hard to make consistent
> looking html emails.  A lot of people require/expect them, but most web
> email clients will strip css and alter the html in other ways, plus
> pretty much none of them will display images without the user clicking a
> button to say it's ok.
>
> From the article, "Bring on PDF email. I'm ready." - that would be
> perfect except for the bloated file size of the email do to needing to
> embed images and everything in the pdf.
>
> -Rob
>
> Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> >>> I have to admit though... avoiding using tables for layout can really
> >>> rack your brain in some situations and take more time to implement.
> >>>
> >
> > So what's wrong with tables for layout other than all that "not
> > semantically correct" religion stuff? It seems to me that both
> > approaches are essentially flawed as they both require hacks. It's hard
> > for me to justify css/div religion when the browser client space is
> > still so screwed up.
> >
> > And -- get this -- I just read that Outlook 2007 dumped its IE HTML
> > rendering engine for Word's rendering engine, which will further break a
> > whole heck of a lot of html emails.
> >
> > See:
> > http://www.sitepoint.com/newsletter/viewissue.php?id=3&issue=156&format=
> > html#5
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
http://warrenmyers.com
"God may not play dice with the universe, but something strange is going on
with the prime numbers." --Paul Erd?s
"It's not possible. We are the type of people who have everything in our
favor going against us." --Ben Jarhvi, Short Circuit 2
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/18793d7f/attachment.html>

From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Jan 11 13:12:42 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:12:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Escaping MySQL full-text boolean mode search phrase
Message-ID: <000501c735ac$1693f1f0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

How do I safely escape a search phrase string for a full-text IN BOOLEAN
MODE search?
 
Exampe:
 
SELECT * FROM table WHERE MATCH (field)
    -> AGAINST ('"the phrase"' IN BOOLEAN MODE);
 
If I use mysqli_real_escape_string, "the phrase" would become /"the
phrase/"
 
Ideas?
 
Cliff 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/09bf7782/attachment.html>

From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Thu Jan 11 13:23:56 2007
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:23:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <cd08a04c0701110931n19765f66r5df2b5de265467b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>
	<cd08a04c0701110931n19765f66r5df2b5de265467b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701111313190.65850@emra.pair.com>


This thread probably belongs on front-end but... no doubt but that tables
are for tabular data. There's a nice SitePoint book about kicking the
table habit: http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css2/.  Forms are the one
thing with which I haven't been able to get clean and sober, because
aligning all the elements with pure CSS -- at least for a non-guru like
myself, judging from the solutions I've seen and tried -- is a PITA.

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Warren Myers wrote:

>[...]
> My big reason for avoiding tables when at all possible is that I like
> changing layouts on personal (and even some work) sites semi-frequently.


---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede
siempre expeditivamente, como si el principio universal
de m?xima eficiencia hubiera aconsejado la supresi?n de
gradaciones intermedias.

  -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan




From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Jan 11 13:39:10 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:39:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701111313190.65850@emra.pair.com>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>
	<cd08a04c0701110931n19765f66r5df2b5de265467b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0701111313190.65850@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701111039ka1dec4ax78a09dcfb02e3ee3@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/07, David Mintz <dmintz at davidmintz.org> wrote:
>
> This thread probably belongs on front-end

Yes! NYPHP has a special-interest list dedicated to discussing markup,
css, javascript and the like. Of course, now that we're all web 2
point oh, the distinction is going away...
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/front-end

> no doubt but that tables
> are for tabular data.  Forms are the one
> thing with which I haven't been able to get clean and sober, because
> aligning all the elements with pure CSS -- at least for a non-guru like
> myself, judging from the solutions I've seen and tried -- is a PITA.

Yeah, I think the rush to embrace table-less layout is similar to the
rush to embrace XML. It's good to tend in the direction of using style
sheets for positioning elements relative to one another, but not to
the point where you lose productive hours trying to re-implement the
table tag.

Tables aren't just for tabular data. They can also be extremely handy
for tabular layout of labeled controls, which is exactly what most
forms are. Tables are also indispensable for the structured display of
mixed-media information, such as thumbnails and descriptions.

Small, localised use where necessary, in other words, rather than
being the foundation of the entire page's design.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From jbaer at VillageVoice.com  Thu Jan 11 13:45:08 2007
From: jbaer at VillageVoice.com (Baer, Jon)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:45:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701111313190.65850@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA245040E7469@mail>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've personally found this book to be an excellent resource on the topic ...

CSS Mastery: Advanced Web Standards Solutions
http://www.friendsofed.com/book.html?isbn=1590596145

- - Jon

- -----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of David Mintz
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:24 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....


This thread probably belongs on front-end but... no doubt but that tables are for tabular data. There's a nice SitePoint book about kicking the table habit: http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css2/.  Forms are the one thing with which I haven't been able to get clean and sober, because aligning all the elements with pure CSS -- at least for a non-guru like myself, judging from the solutions I've seen and tried -- is a PITA.

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Warren Myers wrote:

>[...]
> My big reason for avoiding tables when at all possible is that I like  
>changing layouts on personal (and even some work) sites semi-frequently.


- ---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede siempre expeditivamente, como si el principio universal de m?xima eficiencia hubiera aconsejado la supresi?n de gradaciones intermedias.

  -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan


_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFFpoW099e5DI8C/rsRAgh0AKC72vQltayjjFPqK+z0nFlufl+MJQCfY8pY
q4FFAbA0yfEMqNAf4gMNtog=
=YD6T
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From JJainschigg at cmp.com  Thu Jan 11 13:47:46 2007
From: JJainschigg at cmp.com (JJainschigg at cmp.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:47:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701111313190.65850@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <OF0C916B22.25DE0E54-ON85257260.00662388-85257260.00673D38@cmp.com>

What a beautiful quote:

"In New York, the transit from beauty to desolation always proceeds 
expeditiously, as if the universal principle of maximum efficiency had 
advised suppression of any intermediary states."

Isn't that right? I love Spanish -- where universal principles don't 
dictate, they merely advise. (grin)


John Jainschigg
Editor in Chief, Online
Software Development Media Group
CMP Media, LLC
600 Community Drive
Manhasset, New York 11030
Instant Message to:
    AIM: jjainschigg
    MSN: jjainschigg at cmp.com
Voice call to:
    try first: 718-472-0788
    try second: 917-405-3116
    try third: 516-562-5617
email: jjainschigg at cmp.com





David Mintz <dmintz at davidmintz.org> 
Sent by: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
01/11/2007 01:23 PM
Please respond to
NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>


To
NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
cc

Subject
Re: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....







This thread probably belongs on front-end but... no doubt but that tables
are for tabular data. There's a nice SitePoint book about kicking the
table habit: http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css2/.  Forms are the one
thing with which I haven't been able to get clean and sober, because
aligning all the elements with pure CSS -- at least for a non-guru like
myself, judging from the solutions I've seen and tried -- is a PITA.

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Warren Myers wrote:

>[...]
> My big reason for avoiding tables when at all possible is that I like
> changing layouts on personal (and even some work) sites semi-frequently.


---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede
siempre expeditivamente, como si el principio universal
de m?xima eficiencia hubiera aconsejado la supresi?n de
gradaciones intermedias.

  -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan


_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/dfb110c3/attachment.html>

From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Thu Jan 11 14:08:42 2007
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:08:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <OF0C916B22.25DE0E54-ON85257260.00662388-85257260.00673D38@cmp.com>
References: <OF0C916B22.25DE0E54-ON85257260.00662388-85257260.00673D38@cmp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701111405010.65850@emra.pair.com>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 JJainschigg at cmp.com wrote:

> What a beautiful quote:
>
> "In New York, the transit from beauty to desolation always proceeds
> expeditiously, as if the universal principle of maximum efficiency had
> advised suppression of any intermediary states."

Nicely done! I think I would say "transition" instead of transit but
"...advised suppression..." is better than what I had come up with.

Sorry for the OT, folks.

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede
siempre expeditivamente, como si el principio universal
de m?xima eficiencia hubiera aconsejado la supresi?n de
gradaciones intermedias.

  -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan




From dell at sala.ca  Thu Jan 11 18:48:46 2007
From: dell at sala.ca (Dell Sala)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:48:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
Message-ID: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>

Hi all,

I have a client that has run into a conflict with a previous  
developer over the ownership of some php code, and it's brought up  
some pretty big questions for me.

When I am under contract to develop some custom code for a client,  
who owns the code after it is finished? I expect the quick answer to  
be "It Depends".

In the particular case I mentioned, my understanding is that there  
was no prior discussion of code ownership, or even a contract -- only  
a brief, home-made copyright statement embedded in the source code  
after it was completed. Can something like that really determine  
ownership in a legal context?

My own position on this as a freelance developer (never really  
discussed or documented in contracts), has been that any code I  
write, or open source code that I install for a client belongs to the  
client -- as long as I can reuse the same code that I write for other  
projects and clients. Thats a pretty loose position, but my  
relationship with clients has always been good and I haven't run into  
any trouble so far. Am I, or my clients as risk here somehow?

What do the rest of you do? I'd be particularly interested in hearing  
from other freelance developers. Any good resources out there for  
learning about code ownership and licensing issues?

-- Dell




From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Thu Jan 11 19:00:05 2007
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:00:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0701111600u36fa09b4o8c429c857e566217@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/07, Dell Sala <dell at sala.ca> wrote:
> My own position on this as a freelance developer (never really
> discussed or documented in contracts), has been that any code I
> write, or open source code that I install for a client belongs to the
> client -- as long as I can reuse the same code that I write for other
> projects and clients. Thats a pretty loose position, but my

Just for clarity purposes, there are *licenses* and *copyrights* and
they are fundamentally different things.  A license are terms under
which you use or grant usage of a copyrighted work.  If you give
someone a *license*, they are bound to the terms of the license, but
they don't necessarily have any copyright (ownership) of the material.

All licenses - GPL, BSD, MPL, or the screwiest EULA you've ever read -
are based on the principles of copyright.  If you grant ownership of
something to someone, they can do whatever they want with it and
determine their own license.

keith

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Jan 11 19:02:06 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:02:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't 	Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
References: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <45A6CFFE.2010908@gmx.net>

Nate Abele wrote:
> Ah, so you're a support puke, not an actual programmer.  Yeah, that 
> explains a thing or two.
>
> Anyway, in an effort to cut this discussion short, I'm going to simply 
> suggest that you don't use Cake.  Not now, or at any point in the 
> future.  I, as a core dev of the project, am telling you that no good 
> can come of it.  And this way, if you continue to spout your unasked 
> for, poorly reasoned, and grammatically incorrect opinions, the only 
> reasonable conclusion one could reach is that you're a troll with a 
> learning disability.
>
> Have a nice day :-)
>
> - Nate
>
>> One this this end user for sure DOES NOT do is waste my valuable time on 
>> convoluted nonsense like this explanation has provided. With over twenty 
>> five years of experience in and around Quality Assurance and Customer 
>> Support I can categorically state that this is YET ANOTHER case of an 
>> software engineer  who  has not or can not put himself in the end user  
>> position to experience the real world and does not use or test the 
>> product that he creates as an end user.
>
Ahh, now it gets interesting when customer-oriented supporters and for 
my own sake only arrogant developers go at each other. I am both a 
developer and spent quite some time in support. Any piece of software is 
supposed to be clearly documented in detail in the form of meaningful 
source code commentary (and that means one for about every two lines of 
code, not just some gibberish at the top) and properly maintained 
technical end-user documentation that enables anyone who is not an 
expert developer or god to make use of the software. It is absolutely 
irrelevant if the software is open -source and free to use or 
proprietary with a  million dollar price tag. And no, source code is not 
documentation!
I am in no way implying that volunteer open-source developer have the 
same time, skill, and resources available to prepare proper 
documentation. Nevertheless, developers need to know that there is a 
need and a purpose for proper documentation as well as get one thing 
straight right from the start: if the software is supposed to be used by 
a (paying) community the software is to be developed for that community 
and not for the enjoyment of the developer (enjoyment being having fun 
programming or just getting the paycheck each month). Documentation is 
as important as the code itself, especially when others are asked to 
contribute and join in the project. It is also necessary to crank the 
developer arrogance switch to 0 and come to terms with the fact that 
error messages have a purpose and that is guiding the end-user towards a 
solution of the detected problem. Errors such as "database configuration 
file missing" are IMHO plain garbage. Knowing from my own development 
projects creating proper error handling is boring, annoying, time 
consuming, and adds nothing towards the overall functionality.

Reading the posts from both sides I must say that each has some truth to 
it. The supporter who has some development experience is for sure the 
better supporter. But nothing straightens out a developer more than a 
bitching customer.

That said, flame on...it's funny. ;)

    David


From ken at secdat.com  Thu Jan 11 19:14:59 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:14:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <45A6D303.3000109@secdat.com>

My contract states explicitly and without question that the code is 
solely owned by Secure Data Software, who are free to do with it 
whatever they want.  This may sound extreme or unreasonable, but it is 
the only way to move forward as a custom shop, otherwise you end up in 
the hall of mirrors trying to figure what line of code belongs to whom 
and why it was written and when and what if you copy-n-pasted it and 
what if its just a coincidence and what if every other line spells out 
the name of the third Holy Roman emperor?  So, to keep it simple, I can 
give customer X anything he needs, because everything I did for customer 
X-1, and X-2, and X-3, back to customer zero, belongs to SDS.

The same contract also states that the customer enjoys a perpetual 
license to use the software.  This is all they really want.  They can 
use it forever with no further obligation, this way they are not trapped 
or vulnerable.

Going off into other areas, while Andromeda is a GPL'd product, a 
commercial license is required if SDS is going to provide support and code.

There are many ways you can do it.




Dell Sala wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have a client that has run into a conflict with a previous developer 
> over the ownership of some php code, and it's brought up some pretty 
> big questions for me.
>
> When I am under contract to develop some custom code for a client, who 
> owns the code after it is finished? I expect the quick answer to be 
> "It Depends".
>
> In the particular case I mentioned, my understanding is that there was 
> no prior discussion of code ownership, or even a contract -- only a 
> brief, home-made copyright statement embedded in the source code after 
> it was completed. Can something like that really determine ownership 
> in a legal context?
>
> My own position on this as a freelance developer (never really 
> discussed or documented in contracts), has been that any code I write, 
> or open source code that I install for a client belongs to the client 
> -- as long as I can reuse the same code that I write for other 
> projects and clients. Thats a pretty loose position, but my 
> relationship with clients has always been good and I haven't run into 
> any trouble so far. Am I, or my clients as risk here somehow?
>
> What do the rest of you do? I'd be particularly interested in hearing 
> from other freelance developers. Any good resources out there for 
> learning about code ownership and licensing issues?
>
> -- Dell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/6f380c2e/attachment.vcf>

From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jan 11 19:23:40 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:23:40 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <fd219f0f0701111600u36fa09b4o8c429c857e566217@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
	<fd219f0f0701111600u36fa09b4o8c429c857e566217@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <24894-63555@sneakemail.com>

Keith Casey mailinglists-at-caseysoftware.com |nyphp dev/internal group 
use| wrote:

> On 1/11/07, Dell Sala <dell at sala.ca> wrote:
>
>> My own position on this as a freelance developer (never really
>> discussed or documented in contracts), has been that any code I
>> write, or open source code that I install for a client belongs to the
>> client -- as long as I can reuse the same code that I write for other
>> projects and clients. Thats a pretty loose position, but my
>
>
> Just for clarity purposes, there are *licenses* and *copyrights* and
> they are fundamentally different things.  A license are terms under
> which you use or grant usage of a copyrighted work.  If you give
> someone a *license*, they are bound to the terms of the license, but
> they don't necessarily have any copyright (ownership) of the material.
>
> All licenses - GPL, BSD, MPL, or the screwiest EULA you've ever read -
> are based on the principles of copyright.  If you grant ownership of
> something to someone, they can do whatever they want with it and
> determine their own license.
>
> keith
>
Copyright is not ownership. One can "own" something yet not have the 
copyright(s). One can control the copyright(s) of something without 
owning it.

There are well established models of legal commerce regarding tangeable 
things like books and photographs. The photographer "creates" a work (on 
film, as a latent image) and is granted the rights to control 
distribution of that work (he has a copyright). He may also own the 
negative. If you sells you a print, you own the print, but not a right 
to copy that print to make more (except as specifically allowed by law, 
or by license, as an exception to the copyright).

What happens when the "thing" is not tangeable? What if the "negative" 
is actually just code (as in a digital image, or a software program)? Or 
what if it was just a thought, never "recorded" to any storage media?

Sorry folks. They are still figuring that one out.

Now the advocates of software copyrights, patents, creative commons, 
free speech, save the whales, no nukes, and Impeach Bush can chime in 
and continue the argument that has been going on for many years.

The actual answer has nothing to do with logic or reason IMHO, but  is 
whatever your expensive lawyer says you should do... today... to set up 
your business the way you and your client's want it (provided you have a 
good aware and experienced lawyer). Remember that lawyers are paid to 
argue,  so  caveat emptor.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Jan 11 19:05:35 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:05:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <45A6D0CF.2010102@gmx.net>

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> And -- get this -- I just read that Outlook 2007 dumped its IE HTML
> rendering engine for Word's rendering engine, which will further break a
> whole heck of a lot of html emails. 
>
>   
Interesting that MS wisens up. HTML is supposed to go to port 80, not 
25. The person who ever thought that adding HTML to email belongs shot, 
revived, shot again, revived, and then exposed to the HTML spam mail 
crap 24x7 until he or she dies a natural death.

And I just hope that Thunderbird heeds my option settings...


From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Jan 11 19:10:45 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:10:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701111313190.65850@emra.pair.com>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>	<45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>	<cd08a04c0701110931n19765f66r5df2b5de265467b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0701111313190.65850@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <45A6D205.80906@gmx.net>

David Mintz wrote:
> This thread probably belongs on front-end but... no doubt but that tables
> are for tabular data. There's a nice SitePoint book about kicking the
> table habit: http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css2/.  Forms are the one
> thing with which I haven't been able to get clean and sober, because
> aligning all the elements with pure CSS -- at least for a non-guru like
> myself, judging from the solutions I've seen and tried -- is a PITA.
>
>   
And that is the reason why so many people use tables for layout. CSS is 
all nice and pretty, but absolutely unusable from a design standpoint. 
Most people do well with visual design tools (table) rather than with 
detached and abstract descriptions of the design (CSS). I yet have to 
find a decent CSS editor that makes this whole nightmare into a dream. I 
tend to say CSS sucks, but that is plain unfair and incorrect. CSS is 
kewl, it is the lack of plain simple to use tools for CSS that get CSS 
to be sidelined.

Just my 2 ?.

David


From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Thu Jan 11 19:36:08 2007
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:36:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <24894-63555@sneakemail.com>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
	<fd219f0f0701111600u36fa09b4o8c429c857e566217@mail.gmail.com>
	<24894-63555@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0701111636j7d4d8e76j78f3f6648a06bd5e@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> Copyright is not ownership. One can "own" something yet not have the
> copyright(s). One can control the copyright(s) of something without
> owning it.

Correct.  You can own a book but not own the copyright.  You can
manage (have permission to create licenses for ) a copyright but not
own it.  My main point was demonstrating that ownership and usage are
two different things.

But you can never, never, never grant permissions that you don't have.
 Cringely talked about this in reference to YouTube quite a while ago.
 People asked him to upload some NerdTV stuff but he pointed out their
"transfer of copyright" clauses and noted that if a random person
uploads his stuff, YouTube gains no rights... the random person
doesn't have the ability to transfer them.  If Cringely - who has
those rights - uploads them, it *could* be a whole other story.  But
as noted... that's for the lawyers to figure out.


And to get back on topic...  all of my contracts grant the rights to
customize and extend but not distribute the software.  Of course,
these rights don't become active until *after* payment has been
successfully received, revokable only if they break the terms of the
license.  The "after payment" thing was added from learning the hard
way...

kc

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Thu Jan 11 19:45:34 2007
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:45:34 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't 	Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
References: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <45A6DA2E.4090307@qualityadvantages.com>

Nate Abele wrote:

> Ah, so you're a support puke, not an actual programmer.  Yeah, that 
> explains a thing or two.
>
> Anyway, in an effort to cut this discussion short, I'm going to simply 
> suggest that you don't use Cake.  Not now, or at any point in the 
> future.  I, as a core dev of the project, am telling you that no good 
> can come of it.  And this way, if you continue to spout your unasked 
> for, poorly reasoned, and grammatically incorrect opinions, the only 
> reasonable conclusion one could reach is that you're a troll with a 
> learning disability.
>
> Have a nice day :-)
>
> - Nate
>
>> One this this end user for sure DOES NOT do is waste my valuable time on 
>> convoluted nonsense like this explanation has provided. With over twenty 
>> five years of experience in and around Quality Assurance and Customer 
>> Support I can categorically state that this is YET ANOTHER case of an 
>> software engineer  who  has not or can not put himself in the end user  
>> position to experience the real world and does not use or test the 
>> product that he creates as an end user.
>
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1971 (20070110) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>__________ NOD32 1971 (20070110) Information __________
>
>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>http://www.eset.com
>
>  
>
I will match my resume against yours any day of the week and we see who 
the real "puke" is... you needn't worry about my use of your piece of 
junk, it has been removed from my system and will never pollute my 
computer again.


From nov842 at mac.com  Thu Jan 11 19:46:44 2007
From: nov842 at mac.com (Michael Novak)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:46:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
Message-ID: <200701120046.l0C0kKWC001589@mac.com>

Two words... Intellectual property.

They may have code but are not the architect.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Keith Casey" <mailinglists at caseysoftware.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: 1/11/2007 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code

On 1/11/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> Copyright is not ownership. One can "own" something yet not have the
> copyright(s). One can control the copyright(s) of something without
> owning it.

Correct.  You can own a book but not own the copyright.  You can
manage (have permission to create licenses for ) a copyright but not
own it.  My main point was demonstrating that ownership and usage are
two different things.

But you can never, never, never grant permissions 
[truncated by sender]


From pyurt at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 20:44:11 2007
From: pyurt at yahoo.com (P Yurt)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:44:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Shortcut key for a web form.
Message-ID: <20070112014411.61071.qmail@web52209.mail.yahoo.com>

I would like to make a shortcut key for an existing form. 

How can I map a "shortcut key" to a button?  I.E. I would like
to be able to
press "ALT-S" or "ALT ENTER" and have my "SEND" button actions
occur...

Is this a JS thing or is there some other easy way to do this? 

If it is a JS thing is there a lightweight JS toolkit or script
you can
recommend for the job?  

Explore the Evolving Web 
www.2.0websites.com  
Paul Yurt, Publisher 
paul(@)2.0websites.com 
480-585-0007

 


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Novak
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:47 PM
To: NYPHP Talk; NYPHP Talk
Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code

Two words... Intellectual property.

They may have code but are not the architect.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Keith Casey" <mailinglists at caseysoftware.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: 1/11/2007 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code

On 1/11/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> Copyright is not ownership. One can "own" something yet not
have the
> copyright(s). One can control the copyright(s) of something
without
> owning it.

Correct.  You can own a book but not own the copyright.  You can
manage (have permission to create licenses for ) a copyright but
not
own it.  My main point was demonstrating that ownership and
usage are
two different things.

But you can never, never, never grant permissions 
[truncated by sender]
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Thu Jan 11 21:03:41 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:03:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Shortcut key for a web form.
In-Reply-To: <20070112014411.61071.qmail@web52209.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20070112014411.61071.qmail@web52209.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0701111803m47213063w1fb3557c49178f61@mail.gmail.com>

i think its something called access keys or sometihng

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html

On 1/11/07, P Yurt <pyurt at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I would like to make a shortcut key for an existing form.
>
> How can I map a "shortcut key" to a button?  I.E. I would like
> to be able to
> press "ALT-S" or "ALT ENTER" and have my "SEND" button actions
> occur...
>
> Is this a JS thing or is there some other easy way to do this?
>
> If it is a JS thing is there a lightweight JS toolkit or script
> you can
> recommend for the job?
>
> Explore the Evolving Web
> www.2.0websites.com
> Paul Yurt, Publisher
> paul(@)2.0websites.com
> 480-585-0007
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Novak
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:47 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk; NYPHP Talk
> Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
>
> Two words... Intellectual property.
>
> They may have code but are not the architect.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Keith Casey" <mailinglists at caseysoftware.com>
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: 1/11/2007 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
>
> On 1/11/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> > Copyright is not ownership. One can "own" something yet not
> have the
> > copyright(s). One can control the copyright(s) of something
> without
> > owning it.
>
> Correct.  You can own a book but not own the copyright.  You can
> manage (have permission to create licenses for ) a copyright but
> not
> own it.  My main point was demonstrating that ownership and
> usage are
> two different things.
>
> But you can never, never, never grant permissions
> [truncated by sender]
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/84618df6/attachment.html>

From ken at secdat.com  Thu Jan 11 21:18:58 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:18:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Shortcut key for a web form.
In-Reply-To: <20070112014411.61071.qmail@web52209.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20070112014411.61071.qmail@web52209.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45A6F012.3060104@secdat.com>

P Yurt wrote:
> I would like to make a shortcut key for an existing form. 
>
> How can I map a "shortcut key" to a button?  I.E. I would like
> to be able to
> press "ALT-S" or "ALT ENTER" and have my "SEND" button actions
> occur...
>   

The accesskey property of an HTML tag can be very useful.  We use them 
for common buttons.  On Firefox and IE the user hits "ALT" plus the key.

I've found a few annoyances.

First, numbers are funky because Firefox uses them to switch tabs. 

Also, I recall some trouble with overlapping definitions in IE that did 
not do what we wanted.  In firefox if you redefine a system hotkey you 
win, in IE I believe IE wins, so you get inconsistent behavior.

The worst crock I ever saw was when I asked for keyboard operation from 
somebody (when I was on the other side of the desk) and this clown came 
up with this idea that we'd hit ESC and then a key.  He made his 
programmer work very hard to get it going, which was a shame of course 
because it was useless.

> Is this a JS thing or is there some other easy way to do this? 
>
> If it is a JS thing is there a lightweight JS toolkit or script
> you can
> recommend for the job?  
>
> Explore the Evolving Web 
> www.2.0websites.com  
> Paul Yurt, Publisher 
> paul(@)2.0websites.com 
> 480-585-0007
>
>  
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Novak
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:47 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk; NYPHP Talk
> Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
>
> Two words... Intellectual property.
>
> They may have code but are not the architect.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Keith Casey" <mailinglists at caseysoftware.com>
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: 1/11/2007 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
>
> On 1/11/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Copyright is not ownership. One can "own" something yet not
>>     
> have the
>   
>> copyright(s). One can control the copyright(s) of something
>>     
> without
>   
>> owning it.
>>     
>
> Correct.  You can own a book but not own the copyright.  You can
> manage (have permission to create licenses for ) a copyright but
> not
> own it.  My main point was demonstrating that ownership and
> usage are
> two different things.
>
> But you can never, never, never grant permissions 
> [truncated by sender]
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>   

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/6f3e1277/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070111/6f3e1277/attachment.vcf>

From rothmail at comcast.net  Thu Jan 11 21:29:54 2007
From: rothmail at comcast.net (David A. Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:29:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
Message-ID: <2085a4d6eb6a213ccabae45e7113e6d1@comcast.net>

The best legal source for copyright in the US, is the US Copyright 
Office at:
http://copyright.gov/

Copyright defaults to the author unless it is stated such as in a 
contract. If your contract has "work for hire" then you do not own the 
copyright, the company or person who hires you does.

In any case, it is best to make this clear to any client so they act 
accordingly.  If the client feels, they must own the copyright to the 
source code than that's up to you to determine what that may be worth 
to you. Perhaps you want more money for doing so, or you can offer a 
non-exclusive license to the source code if you feel it is something 
you want to reuse.  I believe it is a bad business practice to not 
discuss this aspect and it should be made clear in a contract who owns 
the copyright and if there is an exclusive or non-exclusive license.

David Roth
rothmail at comcast.net



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Thu Jan 11 21:35:51 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:35:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't 	Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <45A6CFFE.2010908@gmx.net>
References: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
	<45A6CFFE.2010908@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <97F9825F-240B-4685-9FE1-7D27C1A227C8@jonbaer.com>

On Jan 11, 2007, at 7:02 PM, David Krings wrote:

> Reading the posts from both sides I must say that each has some  
> truth to it. The supporter who has some development experience is  
> for sure the better supporter. But nothing straightens out a  
> developer more than a bitching customer.
>
> That said, flame on...it's funny. ;)
>

Yeah ...  @ least we haven't seen one of these @ a NYPHP meetup (...  
yet ...)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eugevon/130610241/

:-)

- Jon 


From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Thu Jan 11 21:51:04 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:51:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <936D0ECA-42AE-415F-BC28-C3FD0C499815@jonbaer.com>

There is an even harder part to this topic ... things that I have  
written have always stayed w/ the client and even when I was not  
freelance it was still really 'work for hire' ... *but* you can work  
yourself into a bind because some larger media companies (like a  
Viacom) will have really strict guidelines and when you spend say 2-3  
years working on backend CMS/Flash applications its hard to show your  
work when trying for another gig.  The real gem other companies seem  
to want to see is nice/clean "reusable" OO code, which is just that,  
"reused" from your previous experience.  Every developer has their  
own toolkit filled w/ libraries that do the job they are asked or  
they end up on PEAR, Zend, etc and reuse something else.  In open  
source I find it extremely hard to find things which another company  
can rightfully claim as the "owner".

It's probably more of an advantage to ask a company what their  
license really is and if they don't have one, go to http:// 
www.opensource.org/licenses/ and pick one or come up with one  
*before* starting so you know where you stand.

Good topic/discussion though.

- Jon

On Jan 11, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Dell Sala wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a client that has run into a conflict with a previous  
> developer over the ownership of some php code, and it's brought up  
> some pretty big questions for me.
>
> When I am under contract to develop some custom code for a client,  
> who owns the code after it is finished? I expect the quick answer  
> to be "It Depends".
>
> In the particular case I mentioned, my understanding is that there  
> was no prior discussion of code ownership, or even a contract --  
> only a brief, home-made copyright statement embedded in the source  
> code after it was completed. Can something like that really  
> determine ownership in a legal context?
>
> My own position on this as a freelance developer (never really  
> discussed or documented in contracts), has been that any code I  
> write, or open source code that I install for a client belongs to  
> the client -- as long as I can reuse the same code that I write for  
> other projects and clients. Thats a pretty loose position, but my  
> relationship with clients has always been good and I haven't run  
> into any trouble so far. Am I, or my clients as risk here somehow?
>
> What do the rest of you do? I'd be particularly interested in  
> hearing from other freelance developers. Any good resources out  
> there for learning about code ownership and licensing issues?
>
> -- Dell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From jellicle at gmail.com  Thu Jan 11 22:20:23 2007
From: jellicle at gmail.com (Michael Sims)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:20:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <200701112220.23427.jellicle@gmail.com>

On Thursday 11 January 2007 6:48 pm, Dell Sala wrote:

> I have a client that has run into a conflict with a previous
> developer over the ownership of some php code, and it's brought up
> some pretty big questions for me.
>
> When I am under contract to develop some custom code for a client,
> who owns the code after it is finished? I expect the quick answer to
> be "It Depends".
>
> In the particular case I mentioned, my understanding is that there
> was no prior discussion of code ownership, or even a contract -- only
> a brief, home-made copyright statement embedded in the source code
> after it was completed. Can something like that really determine
> ownership in a legal context?

By default:

--copyright rests with the employer (in an employer-employee relationship)
--copyright rests with the author (in a client-contractor relationship)

Generally, informed clients will write a contract that gives them rights to 
the code that the contractor produces, overriding the default.  What else 
are they buying, if not rights to the code?  However, if a contract is 
poorly written or non-existent, a court would likely find something along 
the lines of:

--contractor retains the copyright to the code
--client has purchased the right to indefinitely use (and perhaps also alter 
and extend) the code
--client probably hasn't purchased the right to resell the code

> My own position on this as a freelance developer (never really
> discussed or documented in contracts), has been that any code I
> write, or open source code that I install for a client belongs to the
> client -- as long as I can reuse the same code that I write for other
> projects and clients. Thats a pretty loose position, but my
> relationship with clients has always been good and I haven't run into
> any trouble so far. Am I, or my clients as risk here somehow?

You should discuss and document this in your contracts.  To avoid any 
ambiguity and hard feelings.

> What do the rest of you do? I'd be particularly interested in hearing
> from other freelance developers. Any good resources out there for
> learning about code ownership and licensing issues?

As both a contractor and a client, I insist upon the same rules:

--client is assigned the copyright of the code (what else are they paying 
for?)
--contractor gets to keep a copy of the code and use it in future projects

This is, I think, fair to both sides.  Contractor gets to make a living and 
build up code snippets; client gets what they paid for - code that they can 
extend, modify, copy and use in the future, without the contractor's 
involvement.

I also insist that the contractor document any open-source libraries, 
modules, etc. that they use in creating the project, so that I'll know what 
sort of external code was used and how it is licensed.

Contractors that insist that they retain ownership of the code that I pay 
them to produce... would not be hired by me.  Nor would I hire a wedding 
photographer who insisted that they owned the negatives to the pictures 
that they took on my dime.  Both situations suggest the contractor is 
planning to extort money from me at a later date, to make me pay twice for 
the same work, and I find that rather slimy.


Michael Sims



From arzala at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 00:29:40 2007
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:59:40 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <936D0ECA-42AE-415F-BC28-C3FD0C499815@jonbaer.com>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
	<936D0ECA-42AE-415F-BC28-C3FD0C499815@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <200701121059.40162.arzala@gmail.com>

On Friday 12 January 2007 08:21, Jon Baer wrote:
> There is an even harder part to this topic ... things that I have
> written have always stayed w/ the client and even when I was not
> freelance it was still really 'work for hire' ... *but* you can work
> yourself into a bind because some larger media companies (like a
> Viacom) will have really strict guidelines and when you spend say 2-3
> years working on backend CMS/Flash applications its hard to show your
> work when trying for another gig.  The real gem other companies seem
> to want to see is nice/clean "reusable" OO code, which is just that,
> "reused" from your previous experience.  Every developer has their
> own toolkit filled w/ libraries that do the job they are asked or
> they end up on PEAR, Zend, etc and reuse something else.  In open
> source I find it extremely hard to find things which another company
> can rightfully claim as the "owner".

Exactly hit the target. In open source world there is common understanding 
that whatever I do for you (company, client) is yours and you have copyright 
of it excluding the *skills* that I have used to create it.  This clearly 
stats that as long as I have these *skills* I can create similar kind of code 
which is not part of that copyright code.

So I assume, situation is mostly in hands of author who designs that code.

>
> It's probably more of an advantage to ask a company what their
> license really is and if they don't have one, go to http://
> www.opensource.org/licenses/ and pick one or come up with one
> *before* starting so you know where you stand.
>
> Good topic/discussion though.
>
> - Jon
>
> On Jan 11, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Dell Sala wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have a client that has run into a conflict with a previous
> > developer over the ownership of some php code, and it's brought up
> > some pretty big questions for me.
> >
> > When I am under contract to develop some custom code for a client,
> > who owns the code after it is finished? I expect the quick answer
> > to be "It Depends".
> >
> > In the particular case I mentioned, my understanding is that there
> > was no prior discussion of code ownership, or even a contract --
> > only a brief, home-made copyright statement embedded in the source
> > code after it was completed. Can something like that really
> > determine ownership in a legal context?
> >
> > My own position on this as a freelance developer (never really
> > discussed or documented in contracts), has been that any code I
> > write, or open source code that I install for a client belongs to
> > the client -- as long as I can reuse the same code that I write for
> > other projects and clients. Thats a pretty loose position, but my
> > relationship with clients has always been good and I haven't run
> > into any trouble so far. Am I, or my clients as risk here somehow?
> >
> > What do the rest of you do? I'd be particularly interested in
> > hearing from other freelance developers. Any good resources out
> > there for learning about code ownership and licensing issues?
> >
> > -- Dell
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Anirudh Zala
(Building standards)


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Fri Jan 12 04:06:32 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:06:32 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <200701112220.23427.jellicle@gmail.com>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
	<200701112220.23427.jellicle@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22831-65107@sneakemail.com>

Michael Sims jellicle-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>Contractors that insist that they retain ownership of the code that I pay 
>them to produce... would not be hired by me.  Nor would I hire a wedding 
>photographer who insisted that they owned the negatives to the pictures 
>that they took on my dime.  
>
You just eliminated the majority of professional wedding photographers, 
c.1990 (yes, I got married back then). Before the digital revolution, 
control of reprints was an essential part of the business. You could of 
course negotiate ownership of the negatives, but it changed the price of 
the shoot to a more realistic (expensive)  number than it would 
otherwise have been.

 I hired a celebrity wedding photographer because of his art, not his 
performance. A big part of that was executed in the darkroom... owning 
the prints was not especially of interest to me. Like someone else here 
said... they may have the code (negatives) but they don't have the 
architecture (can't make the magical images).

It's a different world today....and I point this out because most of the 
law covering these issues was written "way back when" and really doesn't 
fit too well anymore (like my wedding tux). But when you say :

>Both situations suggest the contractor is planning to extort money from me at a later date, to make me pay twice for 
>the same work, and I find that rather slimy.
>  
>
I have to disagree. It's a deal, and you are free to decline. The guy 
has to make a living, so he can make it off reprints or the shoot. 
Either way there's some risk, and some reward.

I can't see it as extortion or slimy unless you made a deal for other 
than what you're gonna get.


From ps at pswebcode.com  Fri Jan 12 08:10:51 2007
From: ps at pswebcode.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:10:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Using SCP to Transfer Files
Message-ID: <000d01c7364b$15f78aa0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

When using SCP to transfer a file that uses an ampersand in the full file
path name like so:
 
somedir/filedir/files&pics/file.php
 
...the transfer fails because ampersand is a special command character to
the application.
How does one represent the ampersand in the file path so that SCP will
ignore it?
 
Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070112/0d3e5d6d/attachment.html>

From kenneth at ylayali.net  Fri Jan 12 09:18:57 2007
From: kenneth at ylayali.net (Kenneth Dombrowski)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:18:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Using SCP to Transfer Files
In-Reply-To: <000d01c7364b$15f78aa0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <000d01c7364b$15f78aa0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <20070112141857.GE3430@ylayali.net>


i would guess: 

scp file.php me at host:'somedir/filedir/files\&pics/file.php' 

single quotes to escape it for the local shell + backslash to escape it
for the remote shell 



On 07-01-12 08:10 -0500, Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> When using SCP to transfer a file that uses an ampersand in the full file
> path name like so:
>  
> somedir/filedir/files&pics/file.php
>  
> ...the transfer fails because ampersand is a special command character to
> the application.
> How does one represent the ampersand in the file path so that SCP will
> ignore it?
>  
> Warmest regards, 
>  
> Peter Sawczynec 
> Technology Dir.
> Sun-code.com 
> Web related services
> 646.316.3678 
> ps at sun-code.com
>  

> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From ps at pswebcode.com  Fri Jan 12 09:41:31 2007
From: ps at pswebcode.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:41:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Using SCP to Transfer Files
In-Reply-To: <20070112141857.GE3430@ylayali.net>
Message-ID: <002201c73657$c018bd90$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

Gracias so much. That combination of escape and single quote did work.
Thank you again. Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Kenneth Dombrowski
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:19 AM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Using SCP to Transfer Files



i would guess: 

scp file.php me at host:'somedir/filedir/files\&pics/file.php' 

single quotes to escape it for the local shell + backslash to escape it
for the remote shell 



On 07-01-12 08:10 -0500, Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> When using SCP to transfer a file that uses an ampersand in the full file
> path name like so:
>  
> somedir/filedir/files&pics/file.php
>  
> ...the transfer fails because ampersand is a special command character to
> the application.
> How does one represent the ampersand in the file path so that SCP will
> ignore it?
>  
> Warmest regards, 
>  
> Peter Sawczynec 
> Technology Dir.
> Sun-code.com 
> Web related services
> 646.316.3678 
> ps at sun-code.com
>  

> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From ken at secdat.com  Fri Jan 12 09:43:46 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:43:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <45A79EA2.3050802@secdat.com>

Rob Marscher wrote:
> Usually if you avoid using tables for layout, you can drastically 
> change the layout of your page without altering the html.  If you keep 
> to the indended use of the html tags, then the page should look 
> somewhat ok if you turn off your styles altogether (which is maybe how 
> it would look for someone using Netscape 4 or some other ancient 
> browser).  You can also supply different layouts for other uses like 
> printing or for mobile devices without changing the html.  I think 
> screen readers for visually impaired people read table html elements 
> expecting it to be some type of data.  I can't say that from 
> experience though.  So if you don't really care about those things, 
> I'm not sure there's anything else wrong with using tables for layout 
> except you'll have young "know-it-alls" who just got out of their html 
> development class saying that you have really bad code (happened to me 
> before).  You also can't put those cool xhtml/css compliant badges on 
> your page ;)
>

Rob, this is actually one of the more persuasive arguments I've heard 
for the DIV/CSS model.  You hear a lot of dogma about CSS, which has led 
me to this conclusion:

CSS is to HTML Tables as   Java is to PHP

In other words, one of them was designed by a committee of thought 
police, while the other lets me get my job done. 

Another argument I would have put against your reasoning is that I don't 
drastically change my layout, once its delivered to the customer, that's 
it.  However, your post led me to an Aha! moment, I do in fact change 
layout drastically a lot, during *development*.  Until it is finalized 
we are forever tweaking it.  This makes it worthwhile to experiment a 
little with CSS during layout of specialized data screens, I'll let you 
know how it turns out.


So what is the proper use of HTML Tables?  A form of INPUTs, with 
caption on the left and inputs on the right, are table anointed for this 
task, or Divs looking to do this one also?

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070112/7dde97b6/attachment.vcf>

From ken at secdat.com  Fri Jan 12 09:58:06 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:58:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
Message-ID: <45A7A1FE.5030003@secdat.com>

We've all seen the amazing results you can get when you start using 
Ajax, they all come down to one thing: speed.

Question is, how is such a speed-up accomplished?  The standard answer 
is that a complete trip to the server is averted, but this is not true, 
in fact a complete cycle does occur:

1)  Request to server
2)  Possible db access on server
3)  rendering of HTML on server
4)  delivery to browser
5)  re-rendering of portions of screen

Supposedly the js and css libraries are cached so we have not saved the 
effort of retrieving them, this means the only thing we have saved is 
the effort of re-rendering the screen from scratch.  To put another way, 
we have not saved a whole lot of bytes of traffic, or CPU cycles on the 
server.  The only thing that seems to be missing is the 
render-from-scratch on the browser. 

Is this correct?  And if so, why is it so dramatically expensive to 
render a page from scratch, that Ajax could make such a dramatic 
improvement to the situation?
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070112/ffb82b78/attachment.vcf>

From dcech at phpwerx.net  Fri Jan 12 10:21:56 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:21:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
In-Reply-To: <45A7A1FE.5030003@secdat.com>
References: <45A7A1FE.5030003@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <45A7A794.5010809@phpwerx.net>

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> We've all seen the amazing results you can get when you start using
> Ajax, they all come down to one thing: speed.
> 
> Question is, how is such a speed-up accomplished?  The standard answer
> is that a complete trip to the server is averted, but this is not true,
> in fact a complete cycle does occur:
> 
> 1)  Request to server
> 2)  Possible db access on server
> 3)  rendering of HTML on server
> 4)  delivery to browser
> 5)  re-rendering of portions of screen

The simple answer is that each ajax request is usually much more
lightweight than a complete page refresh.  You're avoiding the overhead
of re-generating all the surrounding content on the server, sending it
to the client and rendering it in the browser.

As an example, a simple pair of linked select boxes.  The category the
client selects in the first will change the items available in the second.

1. Traditional Method

When changing the first select box, the form is automatically submitted
the server, which then renders a complete new page (based on the
selected category) and sends it to the client.  The client then displays
the updated page.

2. Ajax Method

When changing the first select box, javascript requests an updated list
of items from the server, which generates the list and sends it to the
client.  Javascript then repopulates the second select box.


So we've done less work on the server, transferred less data and saved
time on the client, by reloading only a fraction of the data on the
page, rather than the whole thing.

Dan


From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Fri Jan 12 11:04:45 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:04:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
In-Reply-To: <45A7A1FE.5030003@secdat.com>
References: <45A7A1FE.5030003@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <5B2CBDA0-A8BF-46EF-8505-05593B4C146C@jonbaer.com>

This really depends on the library you are using and getting the  
server and XHR cache to work in sync w/ content-negotiated responses.

There is a bunch of stuff if you Google "XHR caching".  However I  
usually put this step in the "tuning" category when you are testing,  
there are a few testers out there (Selenium I think?) which will  
automate and give you a report.  The unit tests for these libraries  
usually have some details on what it's doing.

- Jon

On Jan 12, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Kenneth Downs wrote:

> We've all seen the amazing results you can get when you start using  
> Ajax, they all come down to one thing: speed.
>
> Question is, how is such a speed-up accomplished?  The standard  
> answer is that a complete trip to the server is averted, but this  
> is not true, in fact a complete cycle does occur:
>
> 1)  Request to server
> 2)  Possible db access on server
> 3)  rendering of HTML on server
> 4)  delivery to browser
> 5)  re-rendering of portions of screen
>
> Supposedly the js and css libraries are cached so we have not saved  
> the effort of retrieving them, this means the only thing we have  
> saved is the effort of re-rendering the screen from scratch.  To  
> put another way, we have not saved a whole lot of bytes of traffic,  
> or CPU cycles on the server.  The only thing that seems to be  
> missing is the render-from-scratch on the browser.
> Is this correct?  And if so, why is it so dramatically expensive to  
> render a page from scratch, that Ajax could make such a dramatic  
> improvement to the situation?
> <ken.vcf>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From dwclifton at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 11:23:59 2007
From: dwclifton at gmail.com (Douglas Clifton)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:23:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <45a6f063.2bb26057.6bf9.ffffdfe0SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
References: <45a6f063.2bb26057.6bf9.ffffdfe0SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7d6cdcb0701120823q71b5dcf0u8d849186677c1fd4@mail.gmail.com>

> David Mintz wrote:
> > This thread probably belongs on front-end but... no doubt but that tables
> > are for tabular data. There's a nice SitePoint book about kicking the
> > table habit: http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css2/.  Forms are the one
> > thing with which I haven't been able to get clean and sober, because
> > aligning all the elements with pure CSS -- at least for a non-guru like
> > myself, judging from the solutions I've seen and tried -- is a PITA.
> >
> >
> And that is the reason why so many people use tables for layout. CSS is
> all nice and pretty, but absolutely unusable from a design standpoint.
> Most people do well with visual design tools (table) rather than with
> detached and abstract descriptions of the design (CSS). I yet have to
> find a decent CSS editor that makes this whole nightmare into a dream. I
> tend to say CSS sucks, but that is plain unfair and incorrect. CSS is
> kewl, it is the lack of plain simple to use tools for CSS that get CSS
> to be sidelined.

http://loadaveragezero.com/vnav/brainpan/rant.php#evil

-- 
Douglas Clifton
dwclifton at gmail.com
http://loadaveragezero.com/
http://loadaveragezero.com/app/s9y/
http://loadaveragezero.com/drx/rss/recent


From dell at sala.ca  Fri Jan 12 11:48:38 2007
From: dell at sala.ca (Dell Sala)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:48:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
In-Reply-To: <45A7A794.5010809@phpwerx.net>
References: <45A7A1FE.5030003@secdat.com> <45A7A794.5010809@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <5388A338-F2A0-434C-8ABB-BD4671842F2F@sala.ca>

On a high traffic site, I supposed the lighter-weight processing and  
response of an ajax request could have a significant impact (although  
server-side caching would probably change that). But for the average  
site/webapp, I would question the assumption that ajax is in fact  
faster. Bandwidth, and server-side rendering of html is only a small  
part of the overhead that occurs with every request.

I would argue that the perceived speed increase is at least partly  
psychological. We are influenced by the fact that you don't get a  
subtle flicker with every page reload, or the "page loading"  
indicator isn't active. And if a specific request has the potential  
to be "slow", with ajax the developer has the opportunity to give  
feedback to the user in a controlled way instead of defaulting to the  
browser progress indicator. This kind of thing can make the  
application appear more responsive. I think small things like this  
can have a big impact on perceived seamlessness and speed of an  
application.

-- Dell



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 12:06:52 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:06:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
In-Reply-To: <45A7A1FE.5030003@secdat.com>
References: <45A7A1FE.5030003@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701120906h4dd9aeearf96d8a5dbe9491e6@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/12/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:

> Is this correct?  And if so, why is it so dramatically expensive to
> render a page from scratch, that Ajax could make such a dramatic
> improvement to the situation?

I cannot recommend the Firebug extension for FireFox enough. It has a
"Net" tab that will show you, in detail, how long each subrequest
takes. You think that the browser is caching js and css and all those
images. But unless you have agressive caching turned on, it still
makes an HTTP HEAD request to the server, and waits for the response,
to find out if the cached resource has changed.

Rendering the page doesn't take very long, it's really all about
network traffic, and those milliseconds adding up to real seconds. And
of course, if you're using IE the system has to play click.wav for
each refresh. ;-)

There's also the psychological factor of staring at a blank screen vs.
having a fully rendered page to distract you while the XHR is
performed...

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From cliff at pinestream.com  Fri Jan 12 12:17:28 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:17:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701120906h4dd9aeearf96d8a5dbe9491e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c7366d$89972e30$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

Fascinating!!! This is about the coolest thing I've tried in a while.
Never noticed the net tab before.

I just tried a few sites -- amazing results. My own site that I'm
developing varies from 300ms for a cached page (why are those cached css
and js files still taking so long) to more than 2 seconds when it has to
load all those stupid images that we never realize we've accumulated.

Cliff
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Snyder

I cannot recommend the Firebug extension for FireFox enough. It has a
"Net" tab that will show you, in detail, how long each subrequest
takes. You think that the browser is caching js and css and all those
images. But unless you have agressive caching turned on, it still
makes an HTTP HEAD request to the server, and waits for the response,
to find out if the cached resource has changed.



From cliff at pinestream.com  Fri Jan 12 12:27:05 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:27:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
In-Reply-To: <000c01c7366d$89972e30$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <000d01c7366e$e174a910$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

I feel better now -- my site's not the slowest.

CNN -- 200 requests, 516KB, 13.39 seconds.

Firebug is very sobering.

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Cliff Hirsch
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:17 PM
To: 'NYPHP Talk'
Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?

Fascinating!!! This is about the coolest thing I've tried in a while.
Never noticed the net tab before.

I just tried a few sites -- amazing results. My own site that I'm
developing varies from 300ms for a cached page (why are those cached css
and js files still taking so long) to more than 2 seconds when it has to
load all those stupid images that we never realize we've accumulated.

Cliff
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Snyder

I cannot recommend the Firebug extension for FireFox enough. It has a
"Net" tab that will show you, in detail, how long each subrequest
takes. You think that the browser is caching js and css and all those
images. But unless you have agressive caching turned on, it still
makes an HTTP HEAD request to the server, and waits for the response,
to find out if the cached resource has changed.



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 12:27:28 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:27:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
In-Reply-To: <000c01c7366d$89972e30$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <b76252690701120906h4dd9aeearf96d8a5dbe9491e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<000c01c7366d$89972e30$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <b76252690701120927x1ef872c3sa27987c3c2e459ad@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/12/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> Fascinating!!! This is about the coolest thing I've tried in a while.
> Never noticed the net tab before.

But you noticed the live CSS editing, right? It ends the cycle of
edit-save-refresh, edit-save-refresh. Joe Hewitt deserves the next
Nobel Prize for Web Development.

Okay, sorry, off topic.


From dell at sala.ca  Fri Jan 12 12:46:25 2007
From: dell at sala.ca (Dell Sala)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:46:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <D062A29E-DBA7-4CAA-836B-EF80E2260847@sala.ca>

Thanks everyone for your detailed responses. Great discussion!

> my understanding is that there was no prior discussion of code  
> ownership, or even a contract -- only a brief, home-made copyright  
> statement embedded in the source code after it was completed.

In a case like this it sounds like the copyright would default to the  
developer, but the client would have a long-term license to modify  
and extend for their own use, as long as there is no resale.  
Obviously my client should consult a lawyer if things get hairy, but  
this seems like a good starting point.

As for my own policy, I'm leaning towards Ken's suggestion of  
retaining all copyright over the code, but providing a perpetual  
license for the client to use, and copy/modify/extend without resale.

While it appears there's lots of room for debate here, this sounds  
like the safest way to me, and I suspect that the client will be  
satisfied as long as their license doesn't restrict their own ability  
to use and extend. This appears to sidesteps most the murky waters  
where things can get unpleasant.

-- Dell



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 12:47:09 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:47:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <97F9825F-240B-4685-9FE1-7D27C1A227C8@jonbaer.com>
References: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
	<45A6CFFE.2010908@gmx.net>
	<97F9825F-240B-4685-9FE1-7D27C1A227C8@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701120947r3ad3114av4be3e5d21120891d@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:

> Yeah ...  @ least we haven't seen one of these @ a NYPHP meetup (...
> yet ...)
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eugevon/130610241/
>

Paging Jeff Knight, it's time for another presentation.

  -chris.


From enolists at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 12:50:27 2007
From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:50:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
In-Reply-To: <5388A338-F2A0-434C-8ABB-BD4671842F2F@sala.ca>
References: <45A7A1FE.5030003@secdat.com> <45A7A794.5010809@phpwerx.net>
	<5388A338-F2A0-434C-8ABB-BD4671842F2F@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <013401c73672$25eae070$6400a8c0@enobrev>

It definitely depends on how you're utilizing Ajax methods.

On the client side, a page load including headers, tags, external files,
image / object loading, any onLoad javascript, etc can be a rather heavy
process for the browser as well as the network (firebug gives a good glimpse
of all of this).  If you're just loading a piece of data, say a JSON array
of the options in a select box, or a JSON array of information to create a
couple local form fields with, you're skipping LOTS of overhead and merely
replacing a small portion of an already built page.

As for the server side, for a full page load, you might find yourself
hitting the database 5 or 10 times.  Maybe even 150 times.  You're also
running includes/requires, template engine, likely an entire framework full
of tweaks, specialized queries and automation to build the page from data to
template to html.  Asking the server for a list of states in JSON format
should be far less a production.  Of course, the difference may be in a few
ms, but on a heavily trafficked site, few ms can be a lifetime.

Mark



From jeff.knight at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 12:52:36 2007
From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:52:36 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701120947r3ad3114av4be3e5d21120891d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
	<45A6CFFE.2010908@gmx.net>
	<97F9825F-240B-4685-9FE1-7D27C1A227C8@jonbaer.com>
	<b76252690701120947r3ad3114av4be3e5d21120891d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2ca9ba910701120952v6f779ce4iba84cf7e623ca23d@mail.gmail.com>

Yo... I got yah presentation righ here!

On 1/12/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/11/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
>
> > Yeah ...  @ least we haven't seen one of these @ a NYPHP meetup (...
> > yet ...)
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/eugevon/130610241/
> >
>
> Paging Jeff Knight, it's time for another presentation.
>
>   -chris.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Fri Jan 12 12:56:24 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:56:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] So why is Ajax so fast?
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701120927x1ef872c3sa27987c3c2e459ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b76252690701120906h4dd9aeearf96d8a5dbe9491e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<000c01c7366d$89972e30$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<b76252690701120927x1ef872c3sa27987c3c2e459ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DC8A41FE-A4B7-4C1B-A2FF-F3D741AEC27B@jonbaer.com>

I feel kinda bad for him, its the greatest thing since sliced bread  
and he was going to charge a few bucks for it and everyone whined.   
Well worth more than any commercial debug tool on the market ...

http://www.getfirebug.com/contribute.html

- Jon

On Jan 12, 2007, at 12:27 PM, csnyder wrote:

> On 1/12/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>> Fascinating!!! This is about the coolest thing I've tried in a while.
>> Never noticed the net tab before.
>
> But you noticed the live CSS editing, right? It ends the cycle of
> edit-save-refresh, edit-save-refresh. Joe Hewitt deserves the next
> Nobel Prize for Web Development.
>
> Okay, sorry, off topic.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 12:58:43 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:58:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910701120952v6f779ce4iba84cf7e623ca23d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
	<45A6CFFE.2010908@gmx.net>
	<97F9825F-240B-4685-9FE1-7D27C1A227C8@jonbaer.com>
	<b76252690701120947r3ad3114av4be3e5d21120891d@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ca9ba910701120952v6f779ce4iba84cf7e623ca23d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701120958n2ebf076fg653eb730421dadfb@mail.gmail.com>

That's what I'm talggin about!

And with the top post, too. Nice.

On 1/12/07, Jeff Knight <jeff.knight at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yo... I got yah presentation righ here!
>
> On 1/12/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 1/11/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah ...  @ least we haven't seen one of these @ a NYPHP meetup (...
> > > yet ...)
> > >
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/eugevon/130610241/
> > >
> >
> > Paging Jeff Knight, it's time for another presentation.
> >
> >   -chris.
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Fri Jan 12 13:05:26 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:05:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <45A79EA2.3050802@secdat.com>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>	<45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>
	<45A79EA2.3050802@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <45A7CDE6.2030106@beaffinitive.com>

I think the "proper" use of HTML tables is to display a list of things 
ordered into rows and columns.  As Chris Snyder pointed out in a 
previous post in this thread, you can use it for a form of labels and 
inputs, or for thumbnails and descriptions, as well as traditional 
tabular data, and I'm sure there's other good uses as well.

Personally, I've been able to get away without using tables for forms by 
using other html elements like fieldsets and labels and some divs or 
spans.  For thumbnails and descriptions, I use the definition list html 
elements (dl, dt, dd) where the thumbnail is contained in the <dt> and 
the description is in the <dd>.  That could be overkill though...  Some 
places where I've used actual tables are lists of search results where 
you have a column for each field in the result and inboxes for messaging 
where you have rows for each piece of mail.  Basically, my rule of thumb 
is to see what the html looks like with all the styles turned off (can 
do this by hitting ctrl-shift-s if you have that Web Developer Firefox 
plugin I recommended) and if it still makes sense, then things are good. 

If your trying to avoid tables for layout, it seems the main place to 
question yourself is when you find yourself nesting tables inside other 
tables or you have a table with one row or one cell.

-Rob

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Rob Marscher wrote:
>> Usually if you avoid using tables for layout, you can drastically 
>> change the layout of your page without altering the html.  If you 
>> keep to the indended use of the html tags, then the page should look 
>> somewhat ok if you turn off your styles altogether (which is maybe 
>> how it would look for someone using Netscape 4 or some other ancient 
>> browser).  You can also supply different layouts for other uses like 
>> printing or for mobile devices without changing the html.  I think 
>> screen readers for visually impaired people read table html elements 
>> expecting it to be some type of data.  I can't say that from 
>> experience though.  So if you don't really care about those things, 
>> I'm not sure there's anything else wrong with using tables for layout 
>> except you'll have young "know-it-alls" who just got out of their 
>> html development class saying that you have really bad code (happened 
>> to me before).  You also can't put those cool xhtml/css compliant 
>> badges on your page ;)
>>
>
> Rob, this is actually one of the more persuasive arguments I've heard 
> for the DIV/CSS model.  You hear a lot of dogma about CSS, which has 
> led me to this conclusion:
>
> CSS is to HTML Tables as   Java is to PHP
>
> In other words, one of them was designed by a committee of thought 
> police, while the other lets me get my job done.
> Another argument I would have put against your reasoning is that I 
> don't drastically change my layout, once its delivered to the 
> customer, that's it.  However, your post led me to an Aha! moment, I 
> do in fact change layout drastically a lot, during *development*.  
> Until it is finalized we are forever tweaking it.  This makes it 
> worthwhile to experiment a little with CSS during layout of 
> specialized data screens, I'll let you know how it turns out.
>
>
> So what is the proper use of HTML Tables?  A form of INPUTs, with 
> caption on the left and inputs on the right, are table anointed for 
> this task, or Divs looking to do this one also?
>


From enolists at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 13:08:46 2007
From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:08:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <45A6D205.80906@gmx.net>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>
	<cd08a04c0701110931n19765f66r5df2b5de265467b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0701111313190.65850@emra.pair.com>
	<45A6D205.80906@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <cea129a00701121008j6072e8adi413057d180260797@mail.gmail.com>

I would actually say some of the finer designers I've worked with prefer
div/css because of the amount of control they're afforded and the speed at
which they can update their designs, especially for multiple formats, which
Rob mentioned.  Tables are easier for specific layouts, but I've seen css /
div gurus do Incredible things - without having to chop up images, worry
about columns and rows, and colspans and rowspans, etc.

Also, for us developer types, there's nothing quite like updating a template
that looks like this:

<body>
    <h1>Title</h1>

    <ul id="nav">
        <li>First</li>
        <li>Second</li>
    </ul>

    <div id="content">
        <p>Text</p>
        <p>Text</p>
        <p>Text</p>
    </div>
</body>

There is absolutely No Telling what this might look like.  It could have
Thousands of outcomes, but as the guy in charge of functionality, I don't
care about a single one of them.  The designer tweaks the style sheets, I
tweak the code (and insert template tags), and everyone's happy.

the html body is the perfect middle ground between the designer and
developer and should have As Little as possible from either.

On 1/11/07, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:
>
> David Mintz wrote:
> > This thread probably belongs on front-end but... no doubt but that
> tables
> > are for tabular data. There's a nice SitePoint book about kicking the
> > table habit: http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css2/.  Forms are the one
> > thing with which I haven't been able to get clean and sober, because
> > aligning all the elements with pure CSS -- at least for a non-guru like
> > myself, judging from the solutions I've seen and tried -- is a PITA.
> >
> >
> And that is the reason why so many people use tables for layout. CSS is
> all nice and pretty, but absolutely unusable from a design standpoint.
> Most people do well with visual design tools (table) rather than with
> detached and abstract descriptions of the design (CSS). I yet have to
> find a decent CSS editor that makes this whole nightmare into a dream. I
> tend to say CSS sucks, but that is plain unfair and incorrect. CSS is
> kewl, it is the lack of plain simple to use tools for CSS that get CSS
> to be sidelined.
>
> Just my 2 ?.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070112/20c50da4/attachment.html>

From ken at secdat.com  Fri Jan 12 14:31:25 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:31:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <45A7CDE6.2030106@beaffinitive.com>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>	<45A66D3F.7060700@beaffinitive.com>	<45A79EA2.3050802@secdat.com>
	<45A7CDE6.2030106@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <45A7E20D.4000105@secdat.com>

Rob Marscher wrote:
> I think the "proper" use of HTML tables is to display a list of things 
> ordered into rows and columns.  As Chris Snyder pointed out in a 
> previous post in this thread, you can use it for a form of labels and 
> inputs, or for thumbnails and descriptions, as well as traditional 
> tabular data, and I'm sure there's other good uses as well.
>
> Personally, I've been able to get away without using tables for forms 
> by using other html elements like fieldsets and labels and some divs 
> or spans.  For thumbnails and descriptions, I use the definition list 
> html elements (dl, dt, dd) where the thumbnail is contained in the 
> <dt> and the description is in the <dd>.  That could be overkill 
> though...  Some places where I've used actual tables are lists of 
> search results where you have a column for each field in the result 
> and inboxes for messaging where you have rows for each piece of mail.  
> Basically, my rule of thumb is to see what the html looks like with 
> all the styles turned off (can do this by hitting ctrl-shift-s if you 
> have that Web Developer Firefox plugin I recommended) and if it still 
> makes sense, then things are good.
> If your trying to avoid tables for layout, it seems the main place to 
> question yourself is when you find yourself nesting tables inside 
> other tables or you have a table with one row or one cell.

Rob, thanks for a clear explanation of the thinking underneath the word 
"proper" for use of tables.  In particular, the point about nested 
tables or a table with one row or one cell hits home.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070112/16f0f461/attachment.vcf>

From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 19:15:14 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:15:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Gaming Computer w/ 21" Display For Sale CHEAP
	(Permission Granted For Post)
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701121615s64a6ee1craf9b5171baebfdbf@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

I have a computer that I am selling here that is one hell of a deal.
The system is approx 1 yr old and the display approx 7mos old. I am
selling this for ONLY $900 + shipping costs.  It's sad but I never use
the system and I want to upgrade from the PowerMac G5 to the Mac Pro
and well...  It will cost me $900 + trading in the PowerMac G5, hence
why i want to sell this for $900.  I dunno I think it's pretty cheap.
Any Takers?

PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF LIST


Here are the machine specs

APEVIA X-Dreamer II ATXB4KLW Beige Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ATX 420W
power supply for AMD/Intel Power Supply - Retail

ABIT AN8 32X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

XFX PVT42GUAD3 GeForce 6800GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual
Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWINX2048-3200C2PRO - Retail

2 x Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500YD 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150
Hard Drive - OEM

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2.2GHz Socket 939 Processor Model
ADA4400CDBOX - Retail

PLEXTOR 16X DVD?R DVD Burner Beige IDE Model PX-740A/SW - Retail

CREATIVE LABS X-FI PLATINUM
http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=209&subcategory=669&product=14065

INCLUDES 21" Widescreen DIsplay found here
http://www.gateway.com/home/products/ret/ret_fpd2185w.shtml
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From codebowl at gmail.com  Sat Jan 13 09:20:34 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 09:20:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Gaming Computer w/ 21" Display For Sale CHEAP
	(Permission Granted For Post)
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701121615s64a6ee1craf9b5171baebfdbf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800701121615s64a6ee1craf9b5171baebfdbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701130620m2b43a315g3fdd873a401bab0c@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

I have a computer that I am selling here that is one hell of a deal.
The system is approx 1 yr old and the display approx 7mos old. I am
selling this for ONLY $900 + shipping costs.  It's sad but I never use
the system and I want to upgrade from the PowerMac G5 to the Mac Pro
and well...  It will cost me $900 + trading in the PowerMac G5, hence
why i want to sell this for $900.  I dunno I think it's pretty cheap.
Any Takers?

PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF LIST


Here are the machine specs

APEVIA X-Dreamer II ATXB4KLW Beige Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ATX 420W
power supply for AMD/Intel Power Supply - Retail

ABIT AN8 32X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

XFX PVT42GUAD3 GeForce 6800GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual
Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWINX2048-3200C2PRO - Retail

2 x Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500YD 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150
Hard Drive - OEM

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2.2GHz Socket 939 Processor Model
ADA4400CDBOX - Retail

PLEXTOR 16X DVD?R DVD Burner Beige IDE Model PX-740A/SW - Retail

CREATIVE LABS X-FI PLATINUM
http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=209&subcategory=669&product=14065

INCLUDES 21" Widescreen DIsplay found here
http://www.gateway.com/home/products/ret/ret_fpd2185w.shtml
--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From codebowl at gmail.com  Sat Jan 13 11:22:18 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:22:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: [OT] - Gaming Computer w/ 21" Display For Sale
	CHEAP (Permission Granted For Post)
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701121615s64a6ee1craf9b5171baebfdbf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800701121615s64a6ee1craf9b5171baebfdbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701130822h25449985l6db8676bce2aa0a2@mail.gmail.com>

Guys I also have the following

Thermaltake Xaser III Super Tower
AMD 3500+ 64bit
2gb ram
2 x 200gb hdd
256mb vid card

will sell for $400 just to get rid of it

On 1/12/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have a computer that I am selling here that is one hell of a deal.
> The system is approx 1 yr old and the display approx 7mos old. I am
> selling this for ONLY $900 + shipping costs.  It's sad but I never use
> the system and I want to upgrade from the PowerMac G5 to the Mac Pro
> and well...  It will cost me $900 + trading in the PowerMac G5, hence
> why i want to sell this for $900.  I dunno I think it's pretty cheap.
> Any Takers?
>
> PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF LIST
>
>
> Here are the machine specs
>
> APEVIA X-Dreamer II ATXB4KLW Beige Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ATX 420W
> power supply for AMD/Intel Power Supply - Retail
>
> ABIT AN8 32X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
>
> XFX PVT42GUAD3 GeForce 6800GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
>
> CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual
> Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWINX2048-3200C2PRO - Retail
>
> 2 x Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500YD 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150
> Hard Drive - OEM
>
> AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2.2GHz Socket 939 Processor Model
> ADA4400CDBOX - Retail
>
> PLEXTOR 16X DVD?R DVD Burner Beige IDE Model PX-740A/SW - Retail
>
> CREATIVE LABS X-FI PLATINUM
> http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=209&subcategory=669&product=14065
>
> INCLUDES 21" Widescreen DIsplay found here
> http://www.gateway.com/home/products/ret/ret_fpd2185w.shtml
> --
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
>


-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From tedd at sperling.com  Sat Jan 13 12:33:48 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....
In-Reply-To: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <000001c7359d$bc13cba0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <p06240804c1cec2f6a5a3@[192.168.1.101]>

At 11:29 AM -0500 1/11/07, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>  >>I have to admit though... avoiding using tables for layout can really
>>>rack your brain in some situations and take more time to implement.
>
>So what's wrong with tables for layout other than all that "not
>semantically correct" religion stuff? It seems to me that both
>approaches are essentially flawed as they both require hacks. It's hard
>for me to justify css/div religion when the browser client space is
>still so screwed up.

Cliff et al:

How others do coding is their business. As for me, I made the 
transformation from table based layouts to css. I think trying to 
explain the difference to one who has never experienced it for 
themselves is similar to trying to explain the concept of fire to a 
fish. I don't mean to be elitist or condescending, but the difference 
between using tables v css is very significant. Once you make the 
transformation, you'll understand it.

It's not a case of "religion" or "thought police", but rather a 
concept that allows for more efficient coding. Plus, there are many 
side benefits such as a decrease in the size of file, much easier 
maintenance issues, and of course accessibility, which is not a minor 
consideration, but totally ignored in table layouts.

Every advancement has been met with reluctance, that's 
understandable. But if you judge everything by one yardstick (if it 
requires hacks, or not), then nothing will ever work for there are 
differences in current browsers and that will never change. But, the 
trend is certainly and obviously toward compliance.

While the browser developers have to converge on a standard, we as 
developers also have to entertain new methods and technologies as 
well -- for if we don't, as Will Rogers once said "Even if you're on 
the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Cheers,

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From tedd at sperling.com  Sat Jan 13 14:31:49 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:31:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <D062A29E-DBA7-4CAA-836B-EF80E2260847@sala.ca>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
	<D062A29E-DBA7-4CAA-836B-EF80E2260847@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <p06240809c1ced6fc571a@[192.168.1.101]>

At 12:46 PM -0500 1/12/07, Dell Sala wrote:
>Thanks everyone for your detailed responses. Great discussion!
>
>>my understanding is that there was no prior discussion of code 
>>ownership, or even a contract -- only a brief, home-made copyright 
>>statement embedded in the source code after it was completed.
>
>In a case like this it sounds like the copyright would default to 
>the developer, but the client would have a long-term license to 
>modify and extend for their own use, as long as there is no resale. 
>Obviously my client should consult a lawyer if things get hairy, but 
>this seems like a good starting point.
>
>As for my own policy, I'm leaning towards Ken's suggestion of 
>retaining all copyright over the code, but providing a perpetual 
>license for the client to use, and copy/modify/extend without resale.
>
>While it appears there's lots of room for debate here, this sounds 
>like the safest way to me, and I suspect that the client will be 
>satisfied as long as their license doesn't restrict their own 
>ability to use and extend. This appears to sidesteps most the murky 
>waters where things can get unpleasant.
>
>-- Dell

Dell et al:

Considering that many responded, so shall I.

For the last 30 years, I've always been a consultant, never an 
employee. When I was hired to do application software development for 
the Mac ( and before that Apple ][ ), there was no question that the 
code I worked on was owned totally by my client, period! When I 
finished a project, all my code and documentation was transferred to 
my client and everything I had (except for business correspondences) 
was destroyed. There were no exceptions.

However, since working on the net, my focus has been on solutions, 
not software. I use software to solve problems, but solutions are 
what I sell.

 From my perspective, no client has any rights to resell any of my 
software other than with their entire business. In other words, if 
the client wants to sell their business, then everything goes with 
it. I don't have any problems with that as long as the buyer is not 
going to resell my contribution. However, my control over what the 
client and buyer does is next to nil.

Do I care? Not really. Most of my efforts are specifically designed 
for each client. Each client has their own special needs and "custom 
work" is really the soup of the day. If another programmer is hired 
to change my code, then that's fine. If he wants to rip-out some 
technique that I discovered and use it for himself, then that's fine 
as well -- for I have no control over it.

If I post something on this forum, or on my web site, or do something 
for a client that is exposed in some fashion, then so be it -- 
because I have no control over it.

Do you see the common thread here? There are things you have control 
over and there are things that you don't -- and, you don't have much 
control over the net. So, if you're going to work on the net, then 
stop worrying about your code, let clients do what they want (in most 
cases they don't know anyway), and get on with your life.

Sure, you can (and should) address the ownership aspect of your work 
product in your contracts, but realize that it's nearly a moot point 
when it comes to enforceability.

Besides, I've lived long enough to see that no one really comes up 
with a "new idea", it's just variations on a theme that started long 
ago. The only reason you can do what you do now is because of the 
people who came before you. And tomorrow people will be looking to 
stand on your shoulders as well. The cycle continues -- it's best to 
gracefully accept it.

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From ken at secdat.com  Sat Jan 13 16:56:30 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Ken Downs)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:56:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <p06240809c1ced6fc571a@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
	<D062A29E-DBA7-4CAA-836B-EF80E2260847@sala.ca>
	<p06240809c1ced6fc571a@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <jbtua6.28m2a0@dhost2.secdat.com>

tedd &lt;tedd at sperling.com&gt; wrote: &gt;  &gt; Do you see the common thread
here? There are things you have control  &gt; over and there are things that
you don't -- and, you don't have much  &gt; control over the net. So, if
you're going to work on the net, then  &gt; stop worrying about your code,
let clients do what they want (in most  &gt; cases they don't know anyway),
and get on with your life. &gt;  &gt; Sure, you can (and should) address the
ownership aspect of your work  &gt; product in your contracts, but realize
that it's nearly a moot point  &gt; when it comes to enforceability. &gt;
Tedd, overall well put, but I would add one more detail.&nbsp; Sometimes its
not about enforceability but about expectations.&nbsp; A contract, like a
lock, only keeps honest people honest.&nbsp; But just as a lock says,
&quot;you need permission to enter here&quot;, a contract stating ownership
of code indicates to the customer what kind of relationship you expect.&nbsp;
I can think of two cases where this came in very handy for me.&nbsp; In one
case the client objected strongly to a clause in my contract, which hit to
the very base of how I worked.&nbsp; Ultimately I had to let that one go, as
i figured he'd be an unprofitable customer.&nbsp; But what if the contract
had not raised this point, we went forward, and then discovered how far apart
we were in expectations?In a similar case the contract caused my client to ask
a lot of detailed questions that gave us a better understanding of each
other's position, and we have worked well together.
_________________________________________________________
This mail sent using V-webmail - http://www.v-webmail.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070113/e8260b24/attachment.html>

From tedd at sperling.com  Sun Jan 14 12:02:45 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:02:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <jbtua6.28m2a0@dhost2.secdat.com>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
	<D062A29E-DBA7-4CAA-836B-EF80E2260847@sala.ca>
	<p06240809c1ced6fc571a@[192.168.1.101]>
	<jbtua6.28m2a0@dhost2.secdat.com>
Message-ID: <p06240809c1d010ed36f7@[192.168.1.104]>

At 4:56 PM -0500 1/13/07, Ken Downs wrote:
>tedd <tedd at sperling.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>  Do you see the common thread here? There are things you have control
>>  over and there are things that you don't -- and, you don't have much
>>  control over the net. So, if you're going to work on the net, then
>>  stop worrying about your code, let clients do what they want (in most
>>  cases they don't know anyway), and get on with your life.
>>
>>  Sure, you can (and should) address the ownership aspect of your work
>>  product in your contracts, but realize that it's nearly a moot point
>>  when it comes to enforceability.
>>
>
>Tedd, overall well put, but I would add one more detail.  Sometimes 
>its not about enforceability but about expectations.  A contract, 
>like a lock, only keeps honest people honest.  But just as a lock 
>says, "you need permission to enter here", a contract stating 
>ownership of code indicates to the customer what kind of 
>relationship you expect. 
>
>I can think of two cases where this came in very handy for me.  In 
>one case the client objected strongly to a clause in my contract, 
>which hit to the very base of how I worked.  Ultimately I had to let 
>that one go, as i figured he'd be an unprofitable customer.  But 
>what if the contract had not raised this point, we went forward, and 
>then discovered how far apart we were in expectations?
>
>In a similar case the contract caused my client to ask a lot of 
>detailed questions that gave us a better understanding of each 
>other's position, and we have worked well together.
>

Yes, I agree totally and that's the reason why I said that you should 
address those concerns in your agreement, in whatever form that may 
be.

Without exception, I always spell out what's important to me and try 
to explain in clear detail to the client as to what their rights and 
obligations are. I do this only for clarification and not for "under 
threat of law suit".

You see, I spent over 20 years in continuous overlapping lawsuits -- 
while I made more money than I should have, it took it's toll and I 
never want to be in anther law suit in my life. You don't like doing 
business with me, or want your money back -- here it is. In fact, 
almost all my work is paid on approval. But, don't tell anyone that. 
:-)

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From shadab_w at yahoo.co.in  Sun Jan 14 13:27:30 2007
From: shadab_w at yahoo.co.in (Shadab Wadiwala)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:27:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Microsoft Imagine cup 2007
Message-ID: <565098.13844.qm@web8710.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Please click the following link ---

http://imaginecup.com/Registration/Default.aspx?ReferralCode=IC07IN91shadab5

to register with Microsoft Imagine up 2007 (Korea)

Hurry Up,
Time is slipping ..


Shadab .I. Wadiwala
  My homepage:--  http://shadabworld.110mb.com



		
__________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/


From jeff.knight at gmail.com  Sun Jan 14 14:32:53 2007
From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:32:53 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Microsoft Imagine cup 2007
In-Reply-To: <565098.13844.qm@web8710.mail.in.yahoo.com>
References: <565098.13844.qm@web8710.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2ca9ba910701141132l467ee56as3e9b35f903de3b59@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe my next "presentation" should be for people that spam this list...

On 1/14/07, Shadab Wadiwala <shadab_w at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Please click the following link ---


From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Sun Jan 14 22:52:45 2007
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 22:52:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Philosophy of Frameworks (Was: CAKE Ain't Soup!)
In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910701120952v6f779ce4iba84cf7e623ca23d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070111142333.54E7510A806D@cakephp.org>
	<45B5BDB4-9335-4E40-9379-6FC81062BA29@cakephp.org>
	<45A6CFFE.2010908@gmx.net>
	<97F9825F-240B-4685-9FE1-7D27C1A227C8@jonbaer.com>
	<b76252690701120947r3ad3114av4be3e5d21120891d@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ca9ba910701120952v6f779ce4iba84cf7e623ca23d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701142251450.7154@emra.pair.com>



Funniest thing I have seen in days. Such elegance and simplicity!

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Jeff Knight wrote:

> Yo... I got yah presentation righ here!
>
> On 1/12/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 1/11/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah ...  @ least we haven't seen one of these @ a NYPHP meetup (...
> > > yet ...)
> > >
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/eugevon/130610241/
> > >
> >
> > Paging Jeff Knight, it's time for another presentation.


---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede
siempre expeditivamente, como si el principio universal
de m?xima eficiencia hubiera aconsejado la supresi?n de
gradaciones intermedias.

  -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan




From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Mon Jan 15 09:18:16 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:18:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ownership of Code
In-Reply-To: <p06240809c1d010ed36f7@192.168.1.104>
References: <EB1CE8CE-DA4C-4932-A810-4AEFDD3AAABE@sala.ca>
	<D062A29E-DBA7-4CAA-836B-EF80E2260847@sala.ca>
	<p06240809c1ced6fc571a@192.168.1.101>
	<jbtua6.28m2a0@dhost2.secdat.com>
	<p06240809c1d010ed36f7@192.168.1.104>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701150618g1607d63axd64619fec6db187d@mail.gmail.com>

I sign nothing, i have no contracts, you can do what you want with my
code. Usually within a day, I have come up with a better way anyway.
Yes, drives everyone crazy, but what the heck. Makes life more fun
that way. Anarchist at heart!  :-)

On the other hand, if google hired me, I'd probably sign up  in blood.
 Yipes!  :-)


On 1/14/07, tedd <tedd at sperling.com> wrote:
> At 4:56 PM -0500 1/13/07, Ken Downs wrote:
> >tedd <tedd at sperling.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>  Do you see the common thread here? There are things you have control
> >>  over and there are things that you don't -- and, you don't have much
> >>  control over the net. So, if you're going to work on the net, then
> >>  stop worrying about your code, let clients do what they want (in most
> >>  cases they don't know anyway), and get on with your life.
> >>
> >>  Sure, you can (and should) address the ownership aspect of your work
> >>  product in your contracts, but realize that it's nearly a moot point
> >>  when it comes to enforceability.
> >>
> >
> >Tedd, overall well put, but I would add one more detail.  Sometimes
> >its not about enforceability but about expectations.  A contract,
> >like a lock, only keeps honest people honest.  But just as a lock
> >says, "you need permission to enter here", a contract stating
> >ownership of code indicates to the customer what kind of
> >relationship you expect.
> >
> >I can think of two cases where this came in very handy for me.  In
> >one case the client objected strongly to a clause in my contract,
> >which hit to the very base of how I worked.  Ultimately I had to let
> >that one go, as i figured he'd be an unprofitable customer.  But
> >what if the contract had not raised this point, we went forward, and
> >then discovered how far apart we were in expectations?
> >
> >In a similar case the contract caused my client to ask a lot of
> >detailed questions that gave us a better understanding of each
> >other's position, and we have worked well together.
> >
>
> Yes, I agree totally and that's the reason why I said that you should
> address those concerns in your agreement, in whatever form that may
> be.
>
> Without exception, I always spell out what's important to me and try
> to explain in clear detail to the client as to what their rights and
> obligations are. I do this only for clarification and not for "under
> threat of law suit".
>
> You see, I spent over 20 years in continuous overlapping lawsuits --
> while I made more money than I should have, it took it's toll and I
> never want to be in anther law suit in my life. You don't like doing
> business with me, or want your money back -- here it is. In fact,
> almost all my work is paid on approval. But, don't tell anyone that.
> :-)
>
> tedd
> --
> -------
> http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From lk613m at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 15 09:28:44 2007
From: lk613m at yahoo.com (LK)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 06:28:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Certification
Message-ID: <20070115142844.59318.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>

I am considering getting Zend certification in PHP 5 ( http://www.zend.com/education/zend_php_certification/php_5_certification ), and eventually in MySQL (http://www.mysql.com/certification/)

My question to employers is: Does it make a difference in selecting job canditates whether or not they have a PHP/MySQL certification, or is experience more important?

And a question to employees: since getting your PHP or MySQL certification, has it made any difference in terms of salary and/or job opportunities? 

Thanks

Leo


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate 
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070115/c5edd88c/attachment.html>

From codebowl at gmail.com  Mon Jan 15 09:50:55 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:50:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Certification
In-Reply-To: <20070115142844.59318.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20070115142844.59318.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701150650v50edd3adk48483b830b71a380@mail.gmail.com>

Leo,

I can say that the PHP 4 certification has helped me gain jobs as a
contractor, even over people who's rates were quite lower than mine.
Some people see the certification and look no furthur.

I am not sure how it will help you in a full time job.
On Zend's site they show that there is an increase in pay and better
chance of getting a job with it which is supposed to be based on the
statistics of the current certified members.

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Mon Jan 15 11:08:01 2007
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:08:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Certification
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701150650v50edd3adk48483b830b71a380@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070115142844.59318.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>
	<8d9a42800701150650v50edd3adk48483b830b71a380@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0701150808n7e1b8bf7x6bdab85480217c54@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/15/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not sure how it will help you in a full time job.
> On Zend's site they show that there is an increase in pay and better
> chance of getting a job with it which is supposed to be based on the
> statistics of the current certified members.

While there's a correlation here, it doesn't necessarily mean that
there is causation.  From what I have seen, people who are working to
get their ZCE are generally sharp, looking to learn  new skills,
keeping up to date on new development, and active in the community one
way or another.  If I had to put money on it, I'd say that getting
their cert is one way they demonstrate this passion.

Regardless, I've met a number of recruiters around DC specifically
looking for ZCE's, so it's starting to catch on.

kc

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jan 16 03:48:09 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:48:09 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,
 and we haven't talked about Shopping Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>
Message-ID: <1709-66393@sneakemail.com>

Okay it's an old story but remains one that still needs re-writing. It's 
2007, a time of web standards, skinnable CMS's, and fancy screen 
effects, so why do the available shopping cart solutions still look like 
phpnuke?

Any updates to the semiannual PHP-talk question " My customer needs a 
shopping cart solution. Is there anything better than X-Cart?"

Real-world experience only, please. Is there a best-choice today if 
you're not using Joomla but have site(s) that need an integrated cart?





From ramons at gmx.net  Tue Jan 16 06:39:38 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:39:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007, and we haven't talked about Shopping
	Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>
	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <45ACB97A.3050806@gmx.net>

inforequest wrote:
> Okay it's an old story but remains one that still needs re-writing. It's 
> 2007, a time of web standards, skinnable CMS's, and fancy screen 
> effects, so why do the available shopping cart solutions still look like 
> phpnuke?
> 
> Any updates to the semiannual PHP-talk question " My customer needs a 
> shopping cart solution. Is there anything better than X-Cart?"
> 
> Real-world experience only, please. Is there a best-choice today if 
> you're not using Joomla but have site(s) that need an integrated cart?
>

Tell you customer to give stuff away for free and then the problem goes 
away. Just joking...I got nothing. Although, the simplicity in looks and 
style like craigslist are what I recommend. Everyone turns the eyecandy 
off in XP, so why have it on a website?

David


From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Tue Jan 16 08:54:20 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:54:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,
	and we haven't talked about Shopping Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>
	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>

Probably because the future is in hosted third party web services  
that do all the work for you? ;-)

If you look at things like Shopify and Blinksale API it's obvious  
that they offer 2 well defined things:

1. Extremely easy to understand setups for beginners
2. Extremely easy to understand APIs for advanced developers

So the better question would be .. why reinvent the wheel again? ..

But does anyone know what ever happened to the OSCommerce  
development?  Someone should take it over and "Cake" it :-)

- Jon

On Jan 16, 2007, at 3:48 AM, inforequest wrote:

> Okay it's an old story but remains one that still needs re-writing.  
> It's 2007, a time of web standards, skinnable CMS's, and fancy  
> screen effects, so why do the available shopping cart solutions  
> still look like phpnuke?
>
> Any updates to the semiannual PHP-talk question " My customer needs  
> a shopping cart solution. Is there anything better than X-Cart?"
>
> Real-world experience only, please. Is there a best-choice today if  
> you're not using Joomla but have site(s) that need an integrated cart?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From codebowl at gmail.com  Tue Jan 16 09:08:40 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:08:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,
	and we haven't talked about Shopping Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>
	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
	<4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701160608u15f26c21sa4c1397485e6655f@mail.gmail.com>

in my opionion osCommerce has a very messy codebase.
i try to stay away from using it.

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From spangia at redcent.net  Tue Jan 16 10:02:07 2007
From: spangia at redcent.net (Sean Pangia)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:02:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,	and we haven't talked about Shopping
	Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701160608u15f26c21sa4c1397485e6655f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>	<4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
	<8d9a42800701160608u15f26c21sa4c1397485e6655f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45ACE8EF.3040303@redcent.net>

amen. working on an oscommerce project now, and doing so was the worst 
decision i've made in recent memory.

and to jon's point, i would give my eyeteeth for a cake vendor library 
rather than continue my oscommerce mess.





Joseph Crawford wrote:
> in my opionion osCommerce has a very messy codebase.
> i try to stay away from using it.
> 

-- 

   _______________________________________
   Sean Pangia

   Red Cent
   54 West 21st Street, #607
   NYC 10010

   212.255.3800 ext. 201
   www.redcent.net


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 16 10:38:27 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:38:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,
	and we haven't talked about Shopping Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>
	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
	<4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701160738r6a3ea6cbpf4c6ff153caff2ef@mail.gmail.com>

There seems to be brewing that a new osCommerce, some mind blowing
thing is in the works.  who knows?  :-)

On 1/16/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
> Probably because the future is in hosted third party web services
> that do all the work for you? ;-)
>
> If you look at things like Shopify and Blinksale API it's obvious
> that they offer 2 well defined things:
>
> 1. Extremely easy to understand setups for beginners
> 2. Extremely easy to understand APIs for advanced developers
>
> So the better question would be .. why reinvent the wheel again? ..
>
> But does anyone know what ever happened to the OSCommerce
> development?  Someone should take it over and "Cake" it :-)
>
> - Jon
>
> On Jan 16, 2007, at 3:48 AM, inforequest wrote:
>
> > Okay it's an old story but remains one that still needs re-writing.
> > It's 2007, a time of web standards, skinnable CMS's, and fancy
> > screen effects, so why do the available shopping cart solutions
> > still look like phpnuke?
> >
> > Any updates to the semiannual PHP-talk question " My customer needs
> > a shopping cart solution. Is there anything better than X-Cart?"
> >
> > Real-world experience only, please. Is there a best-choice today if
> > you're not using Joomla but have site(s) that need an integrated cart?
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From dell at sala.ca  Tue Jan 16 11:00:11 2007
From: dell at sala.ca (Dell Sala)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:00:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,
	and we haven't talked about Shopping Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>
	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
	<4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <055C2AAC-49F9-430D-884B-7513601394C8@sala.ca>

On Jan 16, 2007, at 8:54 AM, Jon Baer wrote:

> But does anyone know what ever happened to the OSCommerce  
> development?  Someone should take it over and "Cake" it :-)

Has anyone tried BakeSale? http://cakeforge.org/projects/bakesale/

re: OSCommerce -- Customizing that software is probably the most  
unpleasant coding experience I've ever had. I still haven't found a  
package that supports nearly as many useful features out of the box.  
But the coding style is so crazy that I just don't trust it. Has  
anyone used ZenCart? My understanding is that it is a "well  
maintained" fork of OSC.

-- Dell



From chuck at horde.org  Tue Jan 16 11:47:28 2007
From: chuck at horde.org (Chuck Hagenbuch)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:47:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007, and we haven't talked about Shopping
	Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <055C2AAC-49F9-430D-884B-7513601394C8@sala.ca>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>
	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
	<4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
	<055C2AAC-49F9-430D-884B-7513601394C8@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <20070116114728.b5fp1ygmwww0o8gc@technest.org>

Quoting Dell Sala <dell at sala.ca>:

> re: OSCommerce -- Customizing that software is probably the most  
> unpleasant coding experience I've ever had. I still haven't found a  
> package that supports nearly as many useful features out of the box.  
> But the coding style is so crazy that I just don't trust it. Has  
> anyone used ZenCart? My understanding is that it is a "well  
> maintained" fork of OSC.

I just finished developing the same module for both osCommerce and  
ZenCart, and ZenCart is definitely a step up, but it's still pretty  
scary.

It does have a separate templates/ directory at least, as well as a  
couple of useful ways to drop in your own code without having to muck  
with the core code. So installation of a changeset ends up being quite  
a bit easier. If you do end up having to look at the core code,  
though, it's mostly just renamed from osCommerce.

-chuck

-- 
"we are plastered to the windshield of the bus that is time." - Chris


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 16 11:50:13 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:50:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,
	and we haven't talked about Shopping Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <055C2AAC-49F9-430D-884B-7513601394C8@sala.ca>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>
	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
	<4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
	<055C2AAC-49F9-430D-884B-7513601394C8@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701160850i7f86353boc2ab13ea37f4d847@mail.gmail.com>

I found this site awhile back, a SUPER SIMPLE bare bones, PHP shopping
cart.  For some reason, the simplicity of it caught my eye.

The code is all there, was thinking I should revisit it. Needs a solid
DB backend, but for what it is, worth a look?

http://www.auberger.com/couffin/

thanks, ed  :-)



On 1/16/07, Dell Sala <dell at sala.ca> wrote:
> On Jan 16, 2007, at 8:54 AM, Jon Baer wrote:
>
> > But does anyone know what ever happened to the OSCommerce
> > development?  Someone should take it over and "Cake" it :-)
>
> Has anyone tried BakeSale? http://cakeforge.org/projects/bakesale/
>
> re: OSCommerce -- Customizing that software is probably the most
> unpleasant coding experience I've ever had. I still haven't found a
> package that supports nearly as many useful features out of the box.
> But the coding style is so crazy that I just don't trust it. Has
> anyone used ZenCart? My understanding is that it is a "well
> maintained" fork of OSC.
>
> -- Dell
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Tue Jan 16 13:56:09 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:56:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] File Names and Paths Script
Message-ID: <45AD1FC9.8020101@cyberxdesigns.com>

Does anyone know of a handy script that will recurse over a directory 
structure and will grab all the filenames and the paths and store them 
in a MySQL table?  Preferably creating two or more columns in the db?  I 
need to sort through a 150K or so files.  The directory structure can be 
10 or more directories deep.  File names and directory names can have 
spaces and all sorts of wierd characters like '^'

Hans K


From ps at sun-code.com  Tue Jan 16 14:13:27 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:13:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,
	and we haven't talked about Shopping Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701160850i7f86353boc2ab13ea37f4d847@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001201c739a2$6ca77ef0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpay/

phPay. From the descrip at sourceforge:
phPay is an ecommerce-, webshop- and catalog system for PHP4 & MySQL.
Features: no cookies, discounts, 
usrgroups, easy to admin & design, multiple currencies, stock-tracking;
support for dansk, 
english, french, german, spanish included.


My input: 
This project has not been updated in awhile and some developer notes are not
in Eng. 
But, it does offer quite a few features for a skin and bones cart that you
can manipulate thoroughly. 
The core of cart logic itself is in one easy to modify and expand class. 

If you really need a basic cart for a small business on a squeezed budget
and 
you got the latitude to improvise and pump it up. This set of scripts could 
still nominally assist you.

Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com



-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of edward potter
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:50 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,and we haven't talked about Shopping
Carts since last year


I found this site awhile back, a SUPER SIMPLE bare bones, PHP shopping
cart.  For some reason, the simplicity of it caught my eye.

The code is all there, was thinking I should revisit it. Needs a solid
DB backend, but for what it is, worth a look?

http://www.auberger.com/couffin/

thanks, ed  :-)



On 1/16/07, Dell Sala <dell at sala.ca> wrote:
> On Jan 16, 2007, at 8:54 AM, Jon Baer wrote:
>
> > But does anyone know what ever happened to the OSCommerce
> > development?  Someone should take it over and "Cake" it :-)
>
> Has anyone tried BakeSale? http://cakeforge.org/projects/bakesale/
>
> re: OSCommerce -- Customizing that software is probably the most
> unpleasant coding experience I've ever had. I still haven't found a
> package that supports nearly as many useful features out of the box.
> But the coding style is so crazy that I just don't trust it. Has
> anyone used ZenCart? My understanding is that it is a "well
> maintained" fork of OSC.
>
> -- Dell
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php




From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Tue Jan 16 14:20:45 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:20:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] File Names and Paths Script
In-Reply-To: <45AD1FC9.8020101@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45AD1FC9.8020101@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <8ADC3BA9-38C9-49D1-A9AA-18FD9B4AA92C@jonbaer.com>

There is a cool package I used once before in Pear called File_Find  
which has a mapper for this ... it may work for your needs ...

http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.filesystem.file- 
find.maptreemultiple.php

- Jon

On Jan 16, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

> Does anyone know of a handy script that will recurse over a  
> directory structure and will grab all the filenames and the paths  
> and store them in a MySQL table?  Preferably creating two or more  
> columns in the db?  I need to sort through a 150K or so files.  The  
> directory structure can be 10 or more directories deep.  File names  
> and directory names can have spaces and all sorts of wierd  
> characters like '^'
>
> Hans K
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From cliff at pinestream.com  Tue Jan 16 14:40:45 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:40:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,
	and we haven't talked about Shopping Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <001201c739a2$6ca77ef0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <000901c739a6$37a2d0c0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

I'm attempting to use litecommerce, a sister product to X-cart. It seems
to make good use of oop, is 'skinned', and cheaper for a basic feature
set. It uses Flexy instead of Smarty, for templates, which is a pain,
because I know Smarty. The price adds up with options though. It
uniquely has an egoods pin code feature that I couldn't find anywhere
else. If I could...I'd gladly look at other carts.

Downside: "98%" opensource. Meaning some core files are encoded with
ioncube. And it does perform a license check. If that doesn't matter,
only one other caveat -- IonCube and Zend Debugger do not play together.

You may also want to look at: http://www.stoneedge.com/default.htm to
get a sense of a back-end order management solution that is compatible
with a bunch of carts.

Cliff



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Tue Jan 16 14:44:43 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:44:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,
	and we haven't talked about Shopping Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <001201c739a2$6ca77ef0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <001201c739a2$6ca77ef0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <CB494EB8-7A6E-40CC-AD7C-DDFBA834F1F4@jonbaer.com>

I don't know why but Ive always thought there should exist a PHP  
security consortium of some kind which "approves" of e-commerce  
software (even open source) or a document that gives an outline on  
what should and should not be contained within an e-commerce  
application.

This is usually the first stop of mine when anyone recommends a new  
product ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=phpay+site% 
3Asecurityfocus.com&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=zencart+site% 
3Asecurityfocus.com&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=oscommerce+site% 
3Asecurityfocus.com&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=php+shopping+cart+site% 
3Asecurityfocus.com&btnG=Search

There should be some type of risk factor algorithm for these products.

- Jon

On Jan 16, 2007, at 2:13 PM, Peter Sawczynec wrote:

> http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpay/
>
> phPay. From the descrip at sourceforge:
> phPay is an ecommerce-, webshop- and catalog system for PHP4 & MySQL.
> Features: no cookies, discounts,
> usrgroups, easy to admin & design, multiple currencies, stock- 
> tracking;
> support for dansk,
> english, french, german, spanish included.
>
>
> My input:
> This project has not been updated in awhile and some developer  
> notes are not
> in Eng.
> But, it does offer quite a few features for a skin and bones cart  
> that you
> can manipulate thoroughly.
> The core of cart logic itself is in one easy to modify and expand  
> class.
>
> If you really need a basic cart for a small business on a squeezed  
> budget
> and
> you got the latitude to improvise and pump it up. This set of  
> scripts could
> still nominally assist you.
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> Peter Sawczynec
> Technology Dir.
> Sun-code.com
> Web related services
> 646.316.3678
> ps at sun-code.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk- 
> bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
> Behalf Of edward potter
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:50 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,and we haven't talked about  
> Shopping
> Carts since last year
>
>
> I found this site awhile back, a SUPER SIMPLE bare bones, PHP shopping
> cart.  For some reason, the simplicity of it caught my eye.
>
> The code is all there, was thinking I should revisit it. Needs a solid
> DB backend, but for what it is, worth a look?
>
> http://www.auberger.com/couffin/
>
> thanks, ed  :-)
>
>
>
> On 1/16/07, Dell Sala <dell at sala.ca> wrote:
>> On Jan 16, 2007, at 8:54 AM, Jon Baer wrote:
>>
>>> But does anyone know what ever happened to the OSCommerce
>>> development?  Someone should take it over and "Cake" it :-)
>>
>> Has anyone tried BakeSale? http://cakeforge.org/projects/bakesale/
>>
>> re: OSCommerce -- Customizing that software is probably the most
>> unpleasant coding experience I've ever had. I still haven't found a
>> package that supports nearly as many useful features out of the box.
>> But the coding style is so crazy that I just don't trust it. Has
>> anyone used ZenCart? My understanding is that it is a "well
>> maintained" fork of OSC.
>>
>> -- Dell
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>
>
> -- 
> the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Tue Jan 16 16:14:32 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:14:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] File Names and Paths Script
In-Reply-To: <8ADC3BA9-38C9-49D1-A9AA-18FD9B4AA92C@jonbaer.com>
References: <45AD1FC9.8020101@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<8ADC3BA9-38C9-49D1-A9AA-18FD9B4AA92C@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <45AD4038.1040909@cyberxdesigns.com>

Thanks Jon... Jeff Knight suggested the same package.  This project 
doesn't allow pear.  So, I made Jeff write the scripts.  I will release 
the code on CXD's website sometime in the future.

Thanks,
Hans

Jon Baer wrote:
> There is a cool package I used once before in Pear called File_Find 
> which has a mapper for this ... it may work for your needs ...
>
> http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.filesystem.file-find.maptreemultiple.php 
>
>
> - Jon
>
> On Jan 16, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of a handy script that will recurse over a directory 
>> structure and will grab all the filenames and the paths and store 
>> them in a MySQL table?  Preferably creating two or more columns in 
>> the db?  I need to sort through a 150K or so files.  The directory 
>> structure can be 10 or more directories deep.  File names and 
>> directory names can have spaces and all sorts of wierd characters 
>> like '^'
>>
>> Hans K



From cliff at pinestream.com  Tue Jan 16 16:36:09 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:36:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP skiing & boarding poll
Message-ID: <002801c739b6$569c8d80$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

I'm throwing this out to you New Yorkers because Great Gorge (is it
still called that) and Hunter are probably no better off than any other
New England ski area.
 
Very Short Poll:
1.	How many of you ski or board?
2.	How many of you would be interested in a technical training
session in Utah later this winter?
 
Depending upon the response, I'll "look into it."
 
Cliff
_______________________________
Pinestream Communications, Inc.
Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
http://www.pinestream.com <http://www.pinestream.com/> 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070116/488de050/attachment.html>

From gatzby3jr at gmail.com  Tue Jan 16 20:17:23 2007
From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:17:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP skiing & boarding poll
In-Reply-To: <002801c739b6$569c8d80$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <002801c739b6$569c8d80$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <29da5d150701161717se704bb9w652b51298e7f67e8@mail.gmail.com>

I ski.

I'm tentatively interested, but I'm in school right now so I doubt there
would be a time I could go.

On 1/16/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  I'm throwing this out to you New Yorkers because Great Gorge (is it still
> called that) and Hunter are probably no better off than any other New
> England ski area.
>
>
>
> Very Short Poll:
>
>    1. How many of you ski or board?
>    2. How many of you would be interested in a technical training
>    session in Utah later this winter?
>
>
>
> Depending upon the response, I'll "look into it."
>
>
>
> Cliff
>
> _______________________________
> *Pinestream Communications, Inc.*
> Publisher of *Semiconductor Times* & *Telecom Trends*
> 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
> Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
> http://www.pinestream.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


-- 
Brian O'Connor
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070116/d3769d0e/attachment.html>

From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 16 23:20:20 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:20:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Going weekly rate for php developer/coder in NYC these
	days?
Message-ID: <c5949a380701162020s3be3a1d8s3bd205c39e343dd2@mail.gmail.com>

I have an interview tomorrow and the agency was inquiring what the
weekly rate for a experienced php programmer this week was in
Manhattan. I thought I throw it out to the "wisdom of the crowds."

Any one have a ballpark figure?

thanks, ed  :-)

-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From tim_lists at o2group.com  Wed Jan 17 01:07:43 2007
From: tim_lists at o2group.com (Tim Lieberman)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:07:43 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP skiing & boarding poll
In-Reply-To: <29da5d150701161717se704bb9w652b51298e7f67e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002801c739b6$569c8d80$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<29da5d150701161717se704bb9w652b51298e7f67e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <341B1754-1EE1-4806-B645-6DF6866C1FFE@o2group.com>

I ski.

But now I live in Colorado, so :P

Have fun in Utah (if it happens)!

-Tim

On Jan 16, 2007, at 6:17 PM, Brian O'Connor wrote:

> I ski.
>
> I'm tentatively interested, but I'm in school right now so I doubt  
> there would be a time I could go.
>
> On 1/16/07, Cliff Hirsch < cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> I'm throwing this out to you New Yorkers because Great Gorge (is it  
> still called that) and Hunter are p robably no better off than any  
> other New England ski area.
>
>
> Very Short Poll:
>
> How many of you ski or board?
> How many of you would be interested in a technical training session  
> in Utah later this winter?
>
> Dep ending up on the response, I'll "look into it."
>
>
> Cliff
>
> _______________________________
> Pinestream Communications, Inc.
> Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
> 52 Pine Street, Weston , MA 02493 USA
> Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
> http://www.pinestream.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Brian O'Connor
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070116/4881541a/attachment.html>

From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jan 17 01:35:59 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:35:59 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] It's 2007,	and we haven't talked about Shopping
	Carts since last year
In-Reply-To: <4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>
	<4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <22011-98984@sneakemail.com>

Jon Baer jonbaer-at-jonbaer.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> Probably because the future is in hosted third party web services  
> that do all the work for you? ;-)
>
> If you look at things like Shopify and Blinksale API it's obvious  
> that they offer 2 well defined things:
>
> 1. Extremely easy to understand setups for beginners
> 2. Extremely easy to understand APIs for advanced developers
>
> So the better question would be .. why reinvent the wheel again? ..


I'm not sure it's re-inventing, because of the customizations that are 
needed.  Programmers seem to think in terms of automata, but today a 
good portion of coding is customization that hinders more general 
automation. It can't be both at the same time.

Shopify is not mature enough IMHO. It's great for selling your own 
t-shirts I suppose, but lets' try uploadng a merchant feed to a Shopify 
store. And 3% off the top , with so little accountability for dropped 
sales that might result from service interruptions or whatever. What 
shop can operate on a basis of "a sale is a profit, and no sale is 
simply no profit". We can't. 'No sale' is in fact a loss. I need my 
shopping cart to share that loss, or provide a value that offsets the 
risk of loss based on sound business decision making. Shopify IMHO 
doesn't offer that. Neither does Blinksale. And what about returns? 
These service-based outfits take 3% of the sale... regardless of return 
or even failure for the merchant service to close the deal etc. It's a 
lop-sided deal, but still 3% off the top.

If I spend $2-5k on a cart solution I need it to last N months, and then 
port easily to the NextBigThing. I don't really see any need to spend 
less and get less. I'd spend more to get more, but then the risk of 
change weighs in.

Why re-invent the wheel? Because based on what I am hearing from PHP 
developers, the wheels we have are still kind of square.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From ken at secdat.com  Wed Jan 17 09:39:15 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:39:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] A tale of 4 scopes
Message-ID: <45AE3513.7030103@secdat.com>

There is a particular feature that I've tried to implement with varying 
success.  I'm wondering if anybody else has tried.

The idea centers around scope.  In a web app, it seems to me there are 
three recognized scopes, plus a fourth one nobody talks about much:

1)  Application/Database scope - data available to all users simultaneously
2)  Session Scope - data available to one browser instance (with all of 
its tabs and windows)

3)  Window/Tab Scope ( The one I'm trying to implement )

4) Request Scope, the GET/POST parameters of a single request.


We're interested in a solution for #3, the ability to distinguish 
between the various windows or tabs that a user has open.

I have a partial solution but I don't like it because it is fragile 
(besides being partial).  In this solution, you send a hidden variable 
to the browser that contains the "state" for that window.  Among the 
many problems of this approach is that every link must be a FORM 
submission so that the variable goes back to the server.  It does work 
very well for us in one very particular situation, but it is hardly a 
general solution.

The difficulty stems from the fact that there is no "window cookie" or 
"tab cookie", at least not as far as I know.  If there were, that would 
solve the whole problem.  I've thought of trying to trick PHP's system 
of writing a cookie into the URL, but since it is not meant to do that 
it would probably keeping wanting to do the wrong thing. 

Anybody else tried this?
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070117/d09dddc8/attachment.vcf>

From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 17 10:19:41 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:19:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] A tale of 4 scopes
In-Reply-To: <45AE3513.7030103@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c73a4a$e949fe80$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

I have seen some applications that only use url-based session IDs. I
think the PHP INI has a setting for this. If not, why not just attach
your own "tab-id" tag to every url.

Cliff

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:39 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: [nycphp-talk] A tale of 4 scopes

There is a particular feature that I've tried to implement with varying 
success.  I'm wondering if anybody else has tried.

The idea centers around scope.  In a web app, it seems to me there are 
three recognized scopes, plus a fourth one nobody talks about much:

1)  Application/Database scope - data available to all users
simultaneously
2)  Session Scope - data available to one browser instance (with all of 
its tabs and windows)

3)  Window/Tab Scope ( The one I'm trying to implement )

4) Request Scope, the GET/POST parameters of a single request.


We're interested in a solution for #3, the ability to distinguish 
between the various windows or tabs that a user has open.

I have a partial solution but I don't like it because it is fragile 
(besides being partial).  In this solution, you send a hidden variable 
to the browser that contains the "state" for that window.  Among the 
many problems of this approach is that every link must be a FORM 
submission so that the variable goes back to the server.  It does work 
very well for us in one very particular situation, but it is hardly a 
general solution.

The difficulty stems from the fact that there is no "window cookie" or 
"tab cookie", at least not as far as I know.  If there were, that would 
solve the whole problem.  I've thought of trying to trick PHP's system 
of writing a cookie into the URL, but since it is not meant to do that 
it would probably keeping wanting to do the wrong thing. 

Anybody else tried this?



From randalrust at gmail.com  Wed Jan 17 10:29:39 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:29:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] A tale of 4 scopes
In-Reply-To: <001e01c73a4a$e949fe80$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <45AE3513.7030103@secdat.com>
	<001e01c73a4a$e949fe80$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50701170729u3310384ev90258a29e59665fb@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/17/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:

> If not, why not just attach your own "tab-id" tag to every url.

I have been toying with the idea of moving the UI for my CMS to a
tab-based interface. In order to track what the user wants to see or
work on, the way I think it would have to be done is by passing an
'action' parameter in the query string. You would also have to look at
the location of the user, for example

images.php

images.php?action=viewimagelist
images.php?action=addimage
images.php?action=editimage

Of course, this requires checking to see if the action is passed in
the query string, and also checking to make sure it contains a valid
value.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From ken at secdat.com  Wed Jan 17 10:53:01 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:53:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] A tale of 4 scopes
In-Reply-To: <001e01c73a4a$e949fe80$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <001e01c73a4a$e949fe80$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <45AE465D.5010804@secdat.com>

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> I have seen some applications that only use url-based session IDs. I
> think the PHP INI has a setting for this. If not, why not just attach
> your own "tab-id" tag to every url.
>   

Well, you know I thought that the URL rewriting was limited to the 
session ID, but I checked the docs and found this little beauty:

http://us3.php.net/output_add_rewrite_var

...so that a tab ID can be generated when blank and we can keep tabs 
separate.  Nice!

> Cliff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:39 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] A tale of 4 scopes
>
> There is a particular feature that I've tried to implement with varying 
> success.  I'm wondering if anybody else has tried.
>
> The idea centers around scope.  In a web app, it seems to me there are 
> three recognized scopes, plus a fourth one nobody talks about much:
>
> 1)  Application/Database scope - data available to all users
> simultaneously
> 2)  Session Scope - data available to one browser instance (with all of 
> its tabs and windows)
>
> 3)  Window/Tab Scope ( The one I'm trying to implement )
>
> 4) Request Scope, the GET/POST parameters of a single request.
>
>
> We're interested in a solution for #3, the ability to distinguish 
> between the various windows or tabs that a user has open.
>
> I have a partial solution but I don't like it because it is fragile 
> (besides being partial).  In this solution, you send a hidden variable 
> to the browser that contains the "state" for that window.  Among the 
> many problems of this approach is that every link must be a FORM 
> submission so that the variable goes back to the server.  It does work 
> very well for us in one very particular situation, but it is hardly a 
> general solution.
>
> The difficulty stems from the fact that there is no "window cookie" or 
> "tab cookie", at least not as far as I know.  If there were, that would 
> solve the whole problem.  I've thought of trying to trick PHP's system 
> of writing a cookie into the URL, but since it is not meant to do that 
> it would probably keeping wanting to do the wrong thing. 
>
> Anybody else tried this?
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>   

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070117/4df52987/attachment.vcf>

From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jan 18 00:57:57 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 21:57:57 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] more on shopping carts...
In-Reply-To: <22011-98984@sneakemail.com>
References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F88743@xmail.nybg.org>	<1709-66393@sneakemail.com>	<4D48FA17-0720-4B03-8F6B-BE36DB67A5B4@jonbaer.com>
	<22011-98984@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <16682-54995@sneakemail.com>

I am involved in two conversations about a shopping solution, and it is 
interesting to check existing sites that have good-loking solutions in 
place and see them fail. I mean, if it fails when I pull it up impromptu 
during a discussion when someone has noted it as a 
famous/popular/well-done site, what does that say?

*type* Exception report
*message
description* _The server encountered an internal error () that prevented 
it from fulfilling this request._
*exception*Cannot get instance of the basket Nested Exception: Could not 
activate; failed to restore state; CausedByException is:
 /usr/local/jboss402/server/NetAPorter/tmp/sessions/BasketBean-ex2h22sx-3/ex2rdavt-6e3.ser 
(No such file or directory)

	uk.co.fresca.struts.subcontroller.UpdateBasketAction.execute(UpdateBasketAction.java:153)
	org.apache.struts.action.RequestProcessor.processActionPerform(RequestProcessor.java:421)
	org.apache.struts.action.RequestProcessor.process(RequestProcessor.java:226)
	org.apache.struts.action.ActionServlet.process(ActionServlet.java:1164)
	org.apache.struts.action.ActionServlet.doPost(ActionServlet.java:415)
	javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:717)
	javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:810)
	org.jboss.web.tomcat.filters.ReplyHeaderFilter.doFilter(ReplyHeaderFilter.java:81)

*note* _The full stack trace of the root cause is available in the 
Apache Tomcat/5.5.9 logs._


I'm not pitching the client but I will  be working with the team that builds the store (whomever gets the contract). I am wondering, what's the operating basis for you development guys? Do clients know when carts fail? Is it left up to them to watch for server errors and follow-up with the developers under warranty or maintenance? 

I tried a few "live" and 2 of 4 broke, one other showed obvious usability problems. I was surprised.... not sur eif that is a reasonable response these days...




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Jan 18 08:59:17 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:59:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Content strategy question
Message-ID: <002201c73b08$d8400580$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

For my brick and mortar business, I have ten years of newsletter content
in hardcopy, PDF and PageMaker formats. After failing to convince my
readership of the higher learning benefits of reading on the toilet, I
think it's time to port more of my content online.
 
Posting PDFs would be trivial, but it's not very user friendly. Is there
something like a PEAR PDF indexing library that I can use?
 
Appreciate other suggestions for porting the content in a way that isn't
too labor intensive?
 
Thanks,
Cliff
_______________________________
Pinestream Communications, Inc.
Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
http://www.pinestream.com <http://www.pinestream.com/> 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070118/19148a32/attachment.html>

From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Thu Jan 18 09:12:24 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:12:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Content strategy question
In-Reply-To: <002201c73b08$d8400580$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <002201c73b08$d8400580$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <491198290701180612t6b1662dau86f6e4cd2d26af87@mail.gmail.com>

I have not used it, but you might want to look at http://www.htdig.org.  It
indexes, among other things, pdf's

On 1/18/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  For my brick and mortar business, I have ten years of newsletter content
> in hardcopy, PDF and PageMaker formats. After failing to convince my
> readership of the higher learning benefits of reading on the toilet, I
> think it's time to port more of my content online.
>
>
>
> Posting PDFs would be trivial, but it's not very user friendly. Is there
> something like a PEAR PDF indexing library that I can use?
>
>
>
> Appreciate other suggestions for porting the content in a way that isn't
> too labor intensive?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cliff
>
> _______________________________
> *Pinestream Communications, Inc.*
> Publisher of *Semiconductor Times* & *Telecom Trends*
> 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
> Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825
> http://www.pinestream.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070118/589cf1f3/attachment.html>

From dell at sala.ca  Thu Jan 18 09:51:23 2007
From: dell at sala.ca (Dell Sala)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:51:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Friendly URLs with php as CGI
Message-ID: <0B524351-EBA2-4B9F-930E-7E44BDD7E59B@sala.ca>

Hi all,

During a recent discussion we talked about a technique for supporting  
friendly URLs by putting script arguments after the script name,  
separated by slashes, instead of using a standard query string.  
http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2006-December/020277.html

example: http://somedomain.com/phpscript/arg1/arg2

I've been using this technique for several months, with great  
success, but I just ran into a snag. This doesn't seem to work when  
php is running as a CGI. Here's what appears to be happening (using  
the example above):

1) apache sees that "phpscript" is an actual php resource, and  
ignores /arg1/arg2
2) apache passes the full url off the the php CGI
3) the php CGI re-parses the url, and determines the php script it is  
supposed to execute is "arg2", and of course chokes with the error  
"No input file specified."

I also found some reports of $_SERVER['PATH_INFO'] not reporting the  
correct information when running as CGI.

Can anyone suggest a workaround? I hope I don't have to go back to  
mod_rewrite!

-- Dell




From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 11:11:02 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:11:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder in
	NYC these days?
Message-ID: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date, the
going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to top
out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract. A HOT flash programmer,
"may" get up to $100 an hour for a short term assignment.

Everyone seems to be SUPER hot on javascript/ajax/css integration
applications.  The browser has become the boss. Some of the gui work
I'm seeing is MIND blowing. Flash is used sparingly, but EVERYONE uses
the flash player to deliver video.

Mood in most offices?  Not anywhere as excited as the boom, but based
on the world today, I can understand it. Most folks seem a bit grumpy
and just happy to be employed. That WOW, we're going to change the
world spark seems to have dimmed a bit, but who knows, I'm still
optimistic.

PS, outsourced to India, php rates start at about $10 per hour.  A NYC
union electrician/plumber is about $85/hr. My NYU surgeon is $250/$350
per follow-up visit, she seems to see 2/3 patients an hour. Surgery is
about $16,000 - $22,000 for every hour under the knife. A NYC hospital
stay is
$10,000/ night -  includes fruit salad. :-)

In other words, a good health insurance policy is probably worth it no
matter what the cost.

yipes!

-ed

-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From dorgan at optonline.net  Thu Jan 18 11:27:05 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:27:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Flash Developer Needed
Message-ID: <45AF9FD9.2050606@optonline.net>

A Hauppauge based company is looking for an as needed flash guru, for 
some simple flash work.  You will be working side by side with their PHP 
developer.

If you are interested or have more questions please contact me off list 
at donald.organ at lancopromo.com.


From shiflett at php.net  Thu Jan 18 11:44:57 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:44:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45AFA409.2080008@php.net>

Edward Potter wrote:
> Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date,
> the going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
> php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to
> top out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract.

Doing some math in reverse:

$60 / 2.4 = $25
$25/hour = $50,000/year

Therefore, $60/hour as a consultant is approximately equivalent to
$50,000/year as a full-time employee with benefits, and that's assuming
about 40 billable hours a week. $50,000/year for someone with a graduate
degree should not be the "top."

If you're a PHP developer who might consider a new career with a company
that values its staff, OmniTI (http://omniti.com/home) is always looking
for good people. We offer fair salaries and a positive learning
environment for people who are passionate about what they do.

More to the point, the market is hungry for good PHP developers. Like
many companies, we're having a tough time finding enough good people. I
really don't like hearing about talented people not being given respect,
as past discussions have probably revealed. :-)

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 11:55:28 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:55:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701180855u242aa1ccn872f2297db0dc11d@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, NYC has something called the "beautiful girl tax", combined with
the 6 sushi restaurants and 6 independent movie theaters all within 3
blocks.

AKA "the beautiful girl tax", explained as:
dude, I've been living in XXXXX for a year, and I just saw more
beautiful women on one block in Manhattan in 5 mins then i have in 12
months living in XXXXX. This is CRAZY, how do you handle it!

or something like that, do you guys have an NYC branch?  Just wondering!  :-)

- ed


On 1/18/07, Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:
> Edward Potter wrote:
> > Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date,
> > the going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
> > php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to
> > top out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract.
>
> Doing some math in reverse:
>
> $60 / 2.4 = $25
> $25/hour = $50,000/year
>
> Therefore, $60/hour as a consultant is approximately equivalent to
> $50,000/year as a full-time employee with benefits, and that's assuming
> about 40 billable hours a week. $50,000/year for someone with a graduate
> degree should not be the "top."
>
> If you're a PHP developer who might consider a new career with a company
> that values its staff, OmniTI (http://omniti.com/home) is always looking
> for good people. We offer fair salaries and a positive learning
> environment for people who are passionate about what they do.
>
> More to the point, the market is hungry for good PHP developers. Like
> many companies, we're having a tough time finding enough good people. I
> really don't like hearing about talented people not being given respect,
> as past discussions have probably revealed. :-)
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Shiflett
> http://shiflett.org/
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Thu Jan 18 11:55:37 2007
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:55:37 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
Message-ID: <45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org>

Chris Shiflett wrote:
> $60 / 2.4 = $25

Respectable post to be sure, but I couldn't figure out what the "2.4" 
is.  A clue for this poor soul with none, Chris?


-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)


From tedd at sperling.com  Thu Jan 18 12:03:11 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:03:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php
	developer/coder 	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
Message-ID: <p06240811c1d5581940ef@[192.168.1.103]>

At 11:44 AM -0500 1/18/07, Chris Shiflett wrote:
>Edward Potter wrote:
>>  Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date,
>>  the going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
>>  php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to
>>  top out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract.
>
>Doing some math in reverse:
>
>$60 / 2.4 = $25
>$25/hour = $50,000/year
>
>Therefore, $60/hour as a consultant is approximately equivalent to
>$50,000/year as a full-time employee with benefits, and that's assuming
>about 40 billable hours a week.

I don't follow you here. A $60 per hour  translates to around $125k 
per year. Now, subtract the benefits (health insurance $12k, 
retirement, etc) and you'll be around $90k - $100k.

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From ntang at communityconnect.com  Thu Jan 18 12:10:03 2007
From: ntang at communityconnect.com (Nicholas Tang)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:10:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in NYC these days?
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
Message-ID: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101022EFC1C@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>

Just curious, where does the $60/2.4 come from?  If that's accounting for benefits, then the number you're dividing by (2.4) seems way too high.  $60/hour is worth around $120k in salary, so you're saying that $70k of that goes towards benefits?  That math doesn't make any sense to me.  From what I've seen benefits don't increase linearly with salary, and at the higher end of the market (like for mid/ senior level devs) it's a much lower % than it is for someone starting out.
 
Having said that, I absolutely agree that a good developer (or mediocre developer who's also a good salesperson) can definitely get more than $60/hour, and we certainly pay our PHP developers more than $50k/year as well.
 
I will gladly vouch for OmniTI - they're a great company, and we actually work with them on a few things, and they've got a lot of brilliant people.  Seriously.  George and Theo are two of the smartest people I've ever had the pleasure of working with (and the rest I assume are also very good, I just don't know as well).
 
Of course, I think we're not bad either.  ;)  (And we're also almost always hiring.)
 
Nicholas
 
P.S.  Plug plug:
http://www.communityconnect.com/jobs.html

________________________________

From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org on behalf of Chris Shiflett
Sent: Thu 1/18/2007 11:44 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder in NYC these days?



Edward Potter wrote:
> Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date,
> the going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
> php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to
> top out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract.

Doing some math in reverse:

$60 / 2.4 = $25
$25/hour = $50,000/year

Therefore, $60/hour as a consultant is approximately equivalent to
$50,000/year as a full-time employee with benefits, and that's assuming
about 40 billable hours a week. $50,000/year for someone with a graduate
degree should not be the "top."

If you're a PHP developer who might consider a new career with a company
that values its staff, OmniTI (http://omniti.com/home) is always looking
for good people. We offer fair salaries and a positive learning
environment for people who are passionate about what they do.

More to the point, the market is hungry for good PHP developers. Like
many companies, we're having a tough time finding enough good people. I
really don't like hearing about talented people not being given respect,
as past discussions have probably revealed. :-)

Chris

--
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

!DSPAM:3343,45afa517306125043618704!




-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 6811 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070118/f32c6354/attachment.bin>

From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Thu Jan 18 12:12:43 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:12:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
Message-ID: <45AFAA8B.5010104@cyberxdesigns.com>

Chris,

Your looking for talent?  Hmm...... I guess I am for hire.  When can I 
start?  My current employer is a real jerk.  Makes me work for the money 
he pays me.  ;)

Hans
http://photos.cyberxdesigns.com

Chris Shiflett wrote:
> Edward Potter wrote:
>   
>> Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date,
>> the going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
>> php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to
>> top out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract.
>>     
>
> Doing some math in reverse:
>
> $60 / 2.4 = $25
> $25/hour = $50,000/year
>
> Therefore, $60/hour as a consultant is approximately equivalent to
> $50,000/year as a full-time employee with benefits, and that's assuming
> about 40 billable hours a week. $50,000/year for someone with a graduate
> degree should not be the "top."
>
> If you're a PHP developer who might consider a new career with a company
> that values its staff, OmniTI (http://omniti.com/home) is always looking
> for good people. We offer fair salaries and a positive learning
> environment for people who are passionate about what they do.
>
> More to the point, the market is hungry for good PHP developers. Like
> many companies, we're having a tough time finding enough good people. I
> really don't like hearing about talented people not being given respect,
> as past discussions have probably revealed. :-)
>
> Chris
>
>   



From tboyden at supercoups.com  Thu Jan 18 12:14:14 2007
From: tboyden at supercoups.com (Timothy Boyden)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:14:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php
	developer/coderin	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com><45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
	<45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CE8@greenmonster.supercoups.local>

I can help answer that...

Generally speaking your consulting rate should be 2 1/2 times your
calculated hourly rate of a salaried position to account for benefits
and taxes. So if you have a salary of $60,000 a year, your consulting
rate to be equitable with your salaried position should be approximately
$72.12.

$60,000 salary / 52 weeks = weekly salary / 40 hours = salary per hour *
2.5 = consulting rate

At least that is how it was explained to me. Real world - at least from
my experience  (and apparently Ed's) - doesn't usually work out that way
though...

-Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Allen Shaw
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 11:56 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php
developer/coderin NYC these days?

Chris Shiflett wrote:
> $60 / 2.4 = $25

Respectable post to be sure, but I couldn't figure out what the "2.4" 
is.  A clue for this poor soul with none, Chris?


--
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From ps at sun-code.com  Thu Jan 18 12:14:36 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:14:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coder
	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <p06240811c1d5581940ef@[192.168.1.103]>
Message-ID: <001f01c73b24$243e69c0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

It thought I saw once that corp. cost of full boat benefits package per
employee (insurance, vacation, sick days, holidays, education, 
matching contributions, long-term retirement/health)(bonus?!) was more
like $27K per annum.

Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com




-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of tedd
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 12:03 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
phpdeveloper/coder in NYC these days?


At 11:44 AM -0500 1/18/07, Chris Shiflett wrote:
>Edward Potter wrote:
>>  Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date,
>>  the going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
>>  php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to
>>  top out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract.
>
>Doing some math in reverse:
>
>$60 / 2.4 = $25
>$25/hour = $50,000/year
>
>Therefore, $60/hour as a consultant is approximately equivalent to
>$50,000/year as a full-time employee with benefits, and that's assuming
>about 40 billable hours a week.

I don't follow you here. A $60 per hour  translates to around $125k 
per year. Now, subtract the benefits (health insurance $12k, 
retirement, etc) and you'll be around $90k - $100k.

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From scott at crisscott.com  Thu Jan 18 12:18:54 2007
From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:18:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45AFABFE.7000601@crisscott.com>



edward potter wrote:
> Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date, the
> going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
> php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to top
> out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract. A HOT flash programmer,
> "may" get up to $100 an hour for a short term assignment.

I don't have fancy accounting like Chris, but I can tell you that I have 
been in a hiring position before and have paid twice the rate you are 
seeing. The terms of the contract were slightly different (not quite 40 
hours/week, but the length was longer). For a solid PHP developer with a 
graduate degree you should be getting more.

By the way, shouldn't the recruiter be able to answer that question the 
best? It's their job to get people the best they can.

-- 
Scott Mattocks
Author: Pro PHP-GTK
http://www.crisscott.com


From spangia at redcent.net  Thu Jan 18 12:37:18 2007
From: spangia at redcent.net (Sean Pangia)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:37:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coder
	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <001f01c73b24$243e69c0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <001f01c73b24$243e69c0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <45AFB04E.5090002@redcent.net>

the math i was advised to use to calculate the additional cost above 
salary of a fulltime employee is 20%-25% of the employee's annual 
salary. it seems to make sense that the cost is variable, for the most 
part.

-sean




Peter Sawczynec wrote:

> It thought I saw once that corp. cost of full boat benefits package per
> employee (insurance, vacation, sick days, holidays, education, 
> matching contributions, long-term retirement/health)(bonus?!) was more
> like $27K per annum.
> 
> Warmest regards, 
>  
> Peter Sawczynec 
> Technology Dir.
> Sun-code.com 
> Web related services 
> 646.316.3678 
> ps at sun-code.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of tedd
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 12:03 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
> phpdeveloper/coder in NYC these days?
> 
> 
> At 11:44 AM -0500 1/18/07, Chris Shiflett wrote:
> 
>>Edward Potter wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date,
>>> the going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
>>> php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to
>>> top out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract.
>>
>>Doing some math in reverse:
>>
>>$60 / 2.4 = $25
>>$25/hour = $50,000/year
>>
>>Therefore, $60/hour as a consultant is approximately equivalent to
>>$50,000/year as a full-time employee with benefits, and that's assuming
>>about 40 billable hours a week.
> 
> 
> I don't follow you here. A $60 per hour  translates to around $125k 
> per year. Now, subtract the benefits (health insurance $12k, 
> retirement, etc) and you'll be around $90k - $100k.
> 
> tedd
> 

-- 

   _______________________________________
   Sean Pangia

   Red Cent
   54 West 21st Street, #607
   NYC 10010

   212.255.3800 ext. 201
   www.redcent.net


From jhy2104 at columbia.edu  Thu Jan 18 12:31:31 2007
From: jhy2104 at columbia.edu (Dave Youn)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:31:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP & Daylight Savings
In-Reply-To: <200701181700.l0IH0mU6025026@jujube.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <C1D51923.BC6F%jhy2104@columbia.edu>

I just got this email, and thought it might be useful:


U.S. Energy Policy Act of 2005 implements the DST change for the U.S.
Beginning in March 2007, DST in the United States will begin on
the second Sunday in March and end on the first Sunday in November. DST
in 2007 begins March 11 and ends November 4. As a result, many countries
around the world have changed their daylight savings time (DST) dates
and their time zone definitions. This has a serious market impact on
Telecom, Financial, Airlines to name a few. Be aware that the government
will also be reviewing whether these DST changes actually saved energy
and may revise these dates next year.

As these changes go into effect, a failure to modify the system time
automatically may cause inaccurate system date and time which could lead
to unpredictable consequences depending on system usage. If systems
and/or software is not corrected for DST changes, they will report
incorrect time from 03/11/07 through 04/02/07 and from 10/29/07 through
11/04/07. (1 hour late and 1 hour early, respectively).

Be aware that even if you took steps to resolve the issues with the DST
change, you may need to reboot or restart your OS/Server/Application
after January 1, 2007 for the changes to go into effect.
--You may not need to reboot the OS, but applications that are time
aware will need to be restarted after the OS is patched.
--The SC firmware (1280/2900/3800/4800/4900/6800/6900) needs to be
rebooted for the DST changes to take place.
--Java has to be stopped before Java updates are installed or the
tzupdater tool is used

Affected systems:
1. Software affected:
--Solaris (all versions)
--Java
--Java Enterprise System (aka App Server, WebServer, Directory Server...)
--Development Kits
such as Sun Studio or Forte Developer.

2. Systems affected:
--Sun Fire Servers (1280/2900/3800/4800/4900/6800/6900)
--all other systems that use LOM use UTC for the timezone and are
unaffected by DST.
--For High end (12/15/20/25K), patch the SC just like a regular Solaris
system.

3. Storage:
--StorEdge T3/6120 understand DST.
--SE 3x1x (3310/3320/3510/3511). (This is still being confirmed).
--HDS ? Customers are required to not set DST on HDS systems.

A few Sun Alerts to be aware of:
-Solaris (all versions):SunAlert 102178:Daylight Saving Time (DST)
Changes for Australia (2006), United States (2007) and Others.

-SunAlert 102754: Required C++ (Rogue Wave Tools.h++ library) Update
Needed For 2007 Daylight Saving Time Changes

- Systems: SunAlert 102617:Required Server Firmware for Timezone Changes
Due to U.S. Energy Policy Act of 2005.


With Regard to Java, Java Developer Kit, Java Virtual Machine Java
Run-time Environment
a) Solaris 8
--Ships with Java SE v1.1.8, v1.2.2, and v1.3.1 included in the Solaris
8 OE
--Applications dependent on v1.1.8 and v1.2.2 delivered in Solaris 8
will need to be
upgraded to a later Sun Java SE product family version.
--Applications dependent on v1.3.1 in Solaris 8 will need to be updated
to Java SE
v1.3.1_18 or later.

b)Solaris 9
--Ships with Java SE v1.2.2, and v1.4.2 included in the Solaris 9 OE
--Applications dependent on v1.2.2 delivered in Solaris 9 will need to
be upgraded to a
later Sun Java SE product family version.
--Applications dependent on v1.4.2 in Solaris 9 will need to be updated
to use v1.4.2_11
or later. Alternatively the Sun Timezone Update tool can be used on the
v1.4.2 installed
with/in Solaris 9.
Java, Java Developer Kit, Java Virtual Machine Java Run-time
Environment

c)Solaris 10
--Ships with Java SE v1.4.2 and 5.0 included in the Solaris 10 OE
--Applications dependent on v1.4.2 in Solaris 10 will need to be updated
to use v1.4.2_11
or later. Alternatively the Sun Timezone Update tool can be used on the
v1.4.2 installed
with/in Solaris 10.
--Applications dependent on Java SE 5.0 in Solaris 10 will need to be
updated to use 5.0
u6 or later. Alternatively the Sun Timezone Update tool can be used on
the 5.0 installed
with/in Solaris 10.

Java, Java Developer Kit, Java Virtual Machine Java Run-time
Environment
Recommendations:
--The following Java platform versions have correct time rules to handle
the DST
changes that will affect U.S. time zones in 2007:
--Java SE 6 or later
--J2SE 5.0 Update 6 or later
--J2SE 1.4.2_11 or later
--J2SE 1.3.1_18 or later
--For version 1.4 or later, you can also use a tool to modify the time
zone data within your
existing JRE. Get the "tzupdater" tool from the Java SE download page.
--Java Enterprise System: JES relies on JVM for time zone and DST
information. So updating Java will get the JES stack aware of the DST
changes



More comprehensive information -- periodically check these documents for
the latest updates:
--Big Admin Article - 2007 Daylight Saving Time Changes in the U.S.
http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/techtips/dst_changes.html

--U.S. Daylight Saving Time Changes in 2007
http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Intl/USDST/

--US Daylight Savings Time Changes and the Java SE Platform:
http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Intl/USDST_Faq.html

--Overview and Mitigation of the USA2007DST Issue for the Java SE
platform and Solaris OS
http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Intl/USDST_Solaris.html

--JDK US DST Timezone Update Tool ? 1.0
http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp

--JDK - US DST timezone 1.0.0
http://java.sun.com/javase/tzupdater_README.html

*****************************************
David Youn - Webmaster
Columbia University Medical Center
ph: 212.305.8891 212.305.1668 fax: 212.342.8499
http://www.cubhis.org/wds/




From hart at saturn.med.nyu.edu  Thu Jan 18 12:35:29 2007
From: hart at saturn.med.nyu.edu (Joshua Hart)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:35:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coder in
	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFB04E.5090002@redcent.net>
Message-ID: <C1D51A11.14203%hart@saturn.med.nyu.edu>


The calculation we use for is 30% - but as always your mileage might vary.

Joshua

On 1/18/07 12:37 PM, "Sean Pangia" <spangia at redcent.net> wrote:

> the math i was advised to use to calculate the additional cost above
> salary of a fulltime employee is 20%-25% of the employee's annual
> salary. it seems to make sense that the cost is variable, for the most
> part. 
> 
> -sean 
> 




From lists at genoverly.net  Thu Jan 18 12:39:50 2007
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:38:50 -0501
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php
	developer/coder	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFABFE.7000601@crisscott.com>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45AFABFE.7000601@crisscott.com>
Message-ID: <20070118123850.5a6ff864@dt.genoverly.com>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:18:54 -0500
Scott Mattocks <scott at crisscott.com> wrote:

> By the way, shouldn't the recruiter be able to answer that question
> the best? It's their job to get people the best they can.

Not always.  In realestate; there is a buyer's rep and a seller's rep.
Each side works for a commission; and if I'm not mistaken is bound by
an agreement.  One could, of course, work both sides.

Head hunting has no such bounding.  The head hunter could take either
side of the transaction without obligation to reveal anything.  They
could be a "super hero for the workin' man" and negotiate to get the
recruit the maximum price for their services.. or more likely, they
will work for the company to get them the most talent for the least
price.  This will ensure return business; even if they are paid a slice
of the salary as commission.

I am of the belief that the head hunter works for themselves, not the
recruit.  They want to score a match so they get paid.  They may not
necessarily be in our corner.  They are, after all, hunting heads.

-- 

michael


(this address does not accept public email)



From devlin.matt at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 12:52:50 2007
From: devlin.matt at gmail.com (MJD MJD)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:52:50 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <20070118123850.5a6ff864@dt.genoverly.com>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45AFABFE.7000601@crisscott.com>
	<20070118123850.5a6ff864@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <68df55d70701180952n46de2c96ka6d7a8afb5d6caa6@mail.gmail.com>

Not so,

For the most part, recruiters make the market price higher across the
boards, and they provide services for the lazy interviewer (who could get
the positions theme selves, but always have an excuse for not wanting or
just not looking hard enough) It is not like its Euclidean Geometry or
something.
Recruiters provide a service. And the main goal is to make money, not by
return business, but by reputation. If that means you want or need more
money they will try and get you that. If they think you are priced out, they
will help broker your deal differently to GET YOU THE JOB!!! or at least an
offer, right?

but for the most part, what I have seen is; the true developer never has had
to worry about what the salary was. Especially in NYC. If you re good, you
will get what you want. And if you look, not even that hard, you can find a
job right now...

and the true definition of a headhunter - is to find a good head
(applicant/candidate) and market them because you think they are good and
place able. A recruiter, does just that, provides a service.


On 1/18/07, michael <lists at genoverly.net> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:18:54 -0500
> Scott Mattocks <scott at crisscott.com> wrote:
>
> > By the way, shouldn't the recruiter be able to answer that question
> > the best? It's their job to get people the best they can.
>
> Not always.  In realestate; there is a buyer's rep and a seller's rep.
> Each side works for a commission; and if I'm not mistaken is bound by
> an agreement.  One could, of course, work both sides.
>
> Head hunting has no such bounding.  The head hunter could take either
> side of the transaction without obligation to reveal anything.  They
> could be a "super hero for the workin' man" and negotiate to get the
> recruit the maximum price for their services.. or more likely, they
> will work for the company to get them the most talent for the least
> price.  This will ensure return business; even if they are paid a slice
> of the salary as commission.
>
> I am of the belief that the head hunter works for themselves, not the
> recruit.  They want to score a match so they get paid.  They may not
> necessarily be in our corner.  They are, after all, hunting heads.
>
> --
>
> michael
>
>
> (this address does not accept public email)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070118/c310ae84/attachment.html>

From tboyden at supercoups.com  Thu Jan 18 12:53:20 2007
From: tboyden at supercoups.com (Timothy Boyden)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:53:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
	phpdeveloper/coderin	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CE8@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com><45AFA409.2080008@php.net><45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org>
	<C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CE8@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
Message-ID: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CEC@greenmonster.supercoups.local>

I forgot to add the justification part...

So why is it 2.5 above hourly salary?

Money for vacation, sick and personal time - Consulting for yourself,
you don't work, you don't get paid

Retirement funds - Somebody has to pay me to golf everyday and travel
after I'm 65 1/2 ;-)

Medical and life insurance - This is the expensive part, without a bulk
discount, insurance is like $2000 a month

Business equipment/space/expenses - Somebody's got to pay the rent for
your office space and equipment and related expenses

Taxes - Uncle Sam wants his cut too, the figure varies but it's
somewhere between 25 - 30% of your pay...

Misc. Benefits - Enjoy that free coffee, gym membership, or other
activities at the office? Now you get to spring for them...


In addition, you are essentially running a business now so to gather new
business you have to pay for advertising, treating new and existing
clients to lunch or dinner to promote new business, pay for your own
training and certifications, and those trips to MacWorld, GeekCruise,
etc...

So how much does that really add up to for you? For me 2.5% isn't even
close to being enough to cover it all...

Now granted if this is just your rate for side jobs, you can subtract as
needed to make your rate competitive for your market area...


-Tim 


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Timothy Boyden
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 12:14 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
phpdeveloper/coderin NYC these days?

I can help answer that...

Generally speaking your consulting rate should be 2 1/2 times your
calculated hourly rate of a salaried position to account for benefits
and taxes. So if you have a salary of $60,000 a year, your consulting
rate to be equitable with your salaried position should be approximately
$72.12.

$60,000 salary / 52 weeks = weekly salary / 40 hours = salary per hour *
2.5 = consulting rate

At least that is how it was explained to me. Real world - at least from
my experience  (and apparently Ed's) - doesn't usually work out that way
though...

-Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Allen Shaw
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 11:56 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php
developer/coderin NYC these days?

Chris Shiflett wrote:
> $60 / 2.4 = $25

Respectable post to be sure, but I couldn't figure out what the "2.4" 
is.  A clue for this poor soul with none, Chris?


--
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From shiflett at php.net  Thu Jan 18 13:06:54 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:06:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>	<45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
	<45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <45AFB73E.2080504@php.net>

Allen Shaw wrote:
> Chris Shiflett wrote:
> > $60 / 2.4 = $25
> 
> Respectable post to be sure, but I couldn't figure out what
> the "2.4" is.

It's a common factor used in the consulting industry, and although a
quick Google search reveals many other people using this same number in
similar calculations, I can't find a definitive reference or even a name
for it. Anyone know what it's called?

We audit our own expenses frequently, and this number isn't too far off
from reality. It errs on the side of caution, but the idea is that if
you want to make $50,000/year as a consultant working 40 hours a week
(which is about $25/hour), you need to multiply that by 2.4 to calculate
your rate ($60/hour). Stated differently, if you want to make about
$25/hour, you need to bill your time at $60/hour, because not all of
your time is going to be billable, and there are other expenses to
account for.

If this factor seems too high, it might be because you're not factoring in:

1. Overhead such as rent, utilities, office supplies, equipment, etc.

2. Non-billable hours such as writing proposals, answering emails and
phone calls, bookkeeping, marketing, etc. Some companies have
non-billable staff that handles a lot of this stuff, but if you're an
independent consultant and want to bill 40 hours a week, you're going to
have to work many more hours than that. (In other words, you can make
$50,000/year with a rate less than $60/hour, but you're going to have to
work a lot more.)

3. Expenses such as legal, accounting, etc.

Of course, this is all in addition to per-employee expenses such as
benefits. I'm probably forgetting a few things, too.

Hope that helps justify my math and position a bit. :-)

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From ntang at communityconnect.com  Thu Jan 18 13:10:24 2007
From: ntang at communityconnect.com (Nicholas Tang)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:10:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coderin
	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CEC@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
Message-ID: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101055E10AB@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>

I guess a lot depends on whether you look at it as an employer or as an
employee.  From my perspective in terms of what I'd be willing to pay a
contractor, it's nowhere near 2.5x what I'd pay a full-time employee.
I'd pay them what I'd pay a full-time employee plus the savings in
benefits, which is more like 120% instead of 250%.  If they're
especially critical, maybe 150%.  I also prefer to hire full-time people
most of the time.  ;) 

> Money for vacation, sick and personal time - Consulting for yourself,
> you don't work, you don't get paid

Yup.

> Retirement funds - Somebody has to pay me to golf everyday and travel
> after I'm 65 1/2 ;-)

Yup.

> Medical and life insurance - This is the expensive part, 
> without a bulk
> discount, insurance is like $2000 a month

Yup.

> Business equipment/space/expenses - Somebody's got to pay the rent for
> your office space and equipment and related expenses

A lot of contractors work on-site, which eliminates these expenses.

> Taxes - Uncle Sam wants his cut too, the figure varies but it's
> somewhere between 25 - 30% of your pay...

Us full-timers pay taxes too.  :)  If not, I'd be on a yacht right now
instead of in the office.  ;)

> Misc. Benefits - Enjoy that free coffee, gym membership, or other
> activities at the office? Now you get to spring for them...

True, with the caveat above.  (If a contractor's in our office, they can
of course partake of any of the free coffee or other similar benefits as
a full-timer.)

> In addition, you are essentially running a business now so to 
> gather new
> business you have to pay for advertising, treating new and existing
> clients to lunch or dinner to promote new business, pay for your own
> training and certifications, and those trips to MacWorld, GeekCruise,
> etc...

Yup.

All of those are reasons why I never understood why so many companies
hire so many contractors - if I had a choice between hiring someone for
a 6 month contract, or to be a full-time employee for 15 months for the
same rate, I'd hire them full-time in a second.  It makes no sense to me
to pay such a huge premium for the same thing.  (And someone's value
goes up to me over time as they learn how the company works, how our
technology works, etc.  It can take weeks to get someone up to speed on
a new environment and practices, and it's a lot easier to eat that
"cost" over the course of full-time employment than if you bring in a
short-term contractor.)

Nicholas


From shiflett at php.net  Thu Jan 18 13:23:57 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:23:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coderin
	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101055E10AB@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>
References: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101055E10AB@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>
Message-ID: <45AFBB3D.7040308@php.net>

Nicholas Tang wrote:
> All of those are reasons why I never understood why so many
> companies hire so many contractors - if I had a choice between
> hiring someone for a 6 month contract, or to be a full-time
> employee for 15 months for the same rate, I'd hire them
> full-time in a second.

It sounds like you're not considering the fact that you pay the overhead
whether they're your own employee or not. That 2.4 factor applies to
businesses with full-time employees as well as consultants.

It might sound like an obvious statement out of context, but salary
isn't the only expense of doing business. It's the biggest, but the
other stuff adds up.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 13:27:23 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:27:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coderin
	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101055E10AB@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>
References: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CEC@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
	<EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101055E10AB@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701181027n575e6108p4b79663be1cf1179@mail.gmail.com>

I have found that FT employees ALWAYS have to get involved in office
politics, worry about doing what the boss wants them to do, and toe
the line.  Contractors can say the direction this is going is all
wrong - you can be much more independent, that's why they are worth a
BIG premium, they they don't lose their edge, don't have to please
everyone, and don't have to worry about not getting invited to the
office picnic.

Or as I've said to the CEO (as a contractor): what you are doing here
is totally stupid, you have to change course.
CEO:  damn, you're right, NO one here ever told me that before. They
just yes me to death.

Just my 2 cents!  :-)  ed

On 1/18/07, Nicholas Tang <ntang at communityconnect.com> wrote:
> I guess a lot depends on whether you look at it as an employer or as an
> employee.  From my perspective in terms of what I'd be willing to pay a
> contractor, it's nowhere near 2.5x what I'd pay a full-time employee.
> I'd pay them what I'd pay a full-time employee plus the savings in
> benefits, which is more like 120% instead of 250%.  If they're
> especially critical, maybe 150%.  I also prefer to hire full-time people
> most of the time.  ;)
>
> > Money for vacation, sick and personal time - Consulting for yourself,
> > you don't work, you don't get paid
>
> Yup.
>
> > Retirement funds - Somebody has to pay me to golf everyday and travel
> > after I'm 65 1/2 ;-)
>
> Yup.
>
> > Medical and life insurance - This is the expensive part,
> > without a bulk
> > discount, insurance is like $2000 a month
>
> Yup.
>
> > Business equipment/space/expenses - Somebody's got to pay the rent for
> > your office space and equipment and related expenses
>
> A lot of contractors work on-site, which eliminates these expenses.
>
> > Taxes - Uncle Sam wants his cut too, the figure varies but it's
> > somewhere between 25 - 30% of your pay...
>
> Us full-timers pay taxes too.  :)  If not, I'd be on a yacht right now
> instead of in the office.  ;)
>
> > Misc. Benefits - Enjoy that free coffee, gym membership, or other
> > activities at the office? Now you get to spring for them...
>
> True, with the caveat above.  (If a contractor's in our office, they can
> of course partake of any of the free coffee or other similar benefits as
> a full-timer.)
>
> > In addition, you are essentially running a business now so to
> > gather new
> > business you have to pay for advertising, treating new and existing
> > clients to lunch or dinner to promote new business, pay for your own
> > training and certifications, and those trips to MacWorld, GeekCruise,
> > etc...
>
> Yup.
>
> All of those are reasons why I never understood why so many companies
> hire so many contractors - if I had a choice between hiring someone for
> a 6 month contract, or to be a full-time employee for 15 months for the
> same rate, I'd hire them full-time in a second.  It makes no sense to me
> to pay such a huge premium for the same thing.  (And someone's value
> goes up to me over time as they learn how the company works, how our
> technology works, etc.  It can take weeks to get someone up to speed on
> a new environment and practices, and it's a lot easier to eat that
> "cost" over the course of full-time employment than if you bring in a
> short-term contractor.)
>
> Nicholas
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From ntang at communityconnect.com  Thu Jan 18 13:40:16 2007
From: ntang at communityconnect.com (Nicholas Tang)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:40:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coderin
	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701181027n575e6108p4b79663be1cf1179@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101055E10BB@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>

I guess that's the difference between full-time employees at good
companies vs. bad ones: I've told the CEO his idea was stupid before and
after he got over the shock we had a discussion about why and moved on
with it.  At a lot of companies it would've gotten me fired (and I
wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anyone else, but I was having a bad
day and he was being insistent), but that's why I'm not working at those
companies.

There are always politics and always gotchas, but I wouldn't work at any
company where I wouldn't feel comfortable being honest (censoring myself
to avoid insulting people is fine - i.e. "I don't agree with that idea"
vs. "That idea is stupid", but censoring myself to support bad ideas is
not).  I expect the people that report into me to tell me when I'm
screwing something up, and I expect my bosses to be able to take it when
I tell them the same.

Nicholas

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org 
> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of edward potter
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:27 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for 
> phpdeveloper/coderin NYC these days?
> 
> I have found that FT employees ALWAYS have to get involved in office
> politics, worry about doing what the boss wants them to do, and toe
> the line.  Contractors can say the direction this is going is all
> wrong - you can be much more independent, that's why they are worth a
> BIG premium, they they don't lose their edge, don't have to please
> everyone, and don't have to worry about not getting invited to the
> office picnic.
> 
> Or as I've said to the CEO (as a contractor): what you are doing here
> is totally stupid, you have to change course.
> CEO:  damn, you're right, NO one here ever told me that before. They
> just yes me to death.
> 
> Just my 2 cents!  :-)  ed
> 
> On 1/18/07, Nicholas Tang <ntang at communityconnect.com> wrote:
> > I guess a lot depends on whether you look at it as an 
> employer or as an
> > employee.  From my perspective in terms of what I'd be 
> willing to pay a
> > contractor, it's nowhere near 2.5x what I'd pay a full-time 
> employee.
> > I'd pay them what I'd pay a full-time employee plus the savings in
> > benefits, which is more like 120% instead of 250%.  If they're
> > especially critical, maybe 150%.  I also prefer to hire 
> full-time people
> > most of the time.  ;)
> >
> > > Money for vacation, sick and personal time - Consulting 
> for yourself,
> > > you don't work, you don't get paid
> >
> > Yup.
> >
> > > Retirement funds - Somebody has to pay me to golf 
> everyday and travel
> > > after I'm 65 1/2 ;-)
> >
> > Yup.
> >
> > > Medical and life insurance - This is the expensive part,
> > > without a bulk
> > > discount, insurance is like $2000 a month
> >
> > Yup.
> >
> > > Business equipment/space/expenses - Somebody's got to pay 
> the rent for
> > > your office space and equipment and related expenses
> >
> > A lot of contractors work on-site, which eliminates these expenses.
> >
> > > Taxes - Uncle Sam wants his cut too, the figure varies but it's
> > > somewhere between 25 - 30% of your pay...
> >
> > Us full-timers pay taxes too.  :)  If not, I'd be on a 
> yacht right now
> > instead of in the office.  ;)
> >
> > > Misc. Benefits - Enjoy that free coffee, gym membership, or other
> > > activities at the office? Now you get to spring for them...
> >
> > True, with the caveat above.  (If a contractor's in our 
> office, they can
> > of course partake of any of the free coffee or other 
> similar benefits as
> > a full-timer.)
> >
> > > In addition, you are essentially running a business now so to
> > > gather new
> > > business you have to pay for advertising, treating new 
> and existing
> > > clients to lunch or dinner to promote new business, pay 
> for your own
> > > training and certifications, and those trips to MacWorld, 
> GeekCruise,
> > > etc...
> >
> > Yup.
> >
> > All of those are reasons why I never understood why so many 
> companies
> > hire so many contractors - if I had a choice between hiring 
> someone for
> > a 6 month contract, or to be a full-time employee for 15 
> months for the
> > same rate, I'd hire them full-time in a second.  It makes 
> no sense to me
> > to pay such a huge premium for the same thing.  (And someone's value
> > goes up to me over time as they learn how the company works, how our
> > technology works, etc.  It can take weeks to get someone up 
> to speed on
> > a new environment and practices, and it's a lot easier to eat that
> > "cost" over the course of full-time employment than if you 
> bring in a
> > short-term contractor.)
> >
> > Nicholas
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> !DSPAM:3343,45afbd13306121272254815!
> 
> 
> 


From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Thu Jan 18 13:56:07 2007
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:56:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coderin
	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CEC@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45AFA409.2080008@php.net> <45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org>
	<C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CE8@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
	<C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CEC@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0701181056w35a48cf9t42cf5640a354795d@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/18/07, Timothy Boyden <tboyden at supercoups.com> wrote:
> Medical and life insurance - This is the expensive part, without a bulk
> discount, insurance is like $2000 a month

Actually, this is where a bit of planning can save you a *huge*
amount.  Instead of buying insurance - which you have to pay whether
you use it or not - check out Health Savings Accounts (HSA).  They are
*not* the same as FSA's.

You have to get basic catastrophic insurance which covers major things
like cancer, car accidents, etc with a high deductible.  I pay
$40/month and have a $5k deduction.  But then, you get to create a
pre-tax savings account which you can deposit funds into.... and the
funds are 100% yours from day one and grow like a normal savings
account.  If you have the ability to start putting funds into it
during your 20's or 30's, you could have a huge amount in no time...

But the best part is that you can get discounts... remember that many
doctor's offices and hospitals have people who their only job is to
fight with the insurance companies.  When you offer to pay in full
right then and there - via the debit card attached to the account -
they often give discounts.  For example, my wife is knocked out with
the flu at the moment and when I took her to the doctor a couple days
ago, they knocked 30% off the bill while we were standing there.

Now let's do the math...
$2000/month for insurance you might not use that month OR
$40/month for insurance you might not use + $1960 into a savings account

For details check out:  http://hsainsider.com/

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


From tboyden at supercoups.com  Thu Jan 18 14:14:19 2007
From: tboyden at supercoups.com (Timothy Boyden)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:14:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
	phpdeveloper/coderinNYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <fd219f0f0701181056w35a48cf9t42cf5640a354795d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com><45AFA409.2080008@php.net>
	<45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org><C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CE8@greenmonster.supercoups.local><C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CEC@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
	<fd219f0f0701181056w35a48cf9t42cf5640a354795d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CF6@greenmonster.supercoups.local>

HSAs can be a good alternative to traditional health plans. However it's
not exactly free money either, there are contribution limits, penalties
for uses other than for medical expenses, etc...

The other thing is if your working for yourself and you become disabled,
you can't contribute to the HSA anymore so then how do the medical bills
get paid?

Another option is a participating in a group self-employed plan through
a business group or chamber of commerce.


--------------------------- 
Timothy Boyden 
Network Administrator 
tboyden at supercoups.com 
  
SuperCoups(r) | 350 Revolutionary Drive | E. Taunton, MA 02718 
508-977-2034  | www.supercoups.com 
---------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Keith Casey
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:56 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
phpdeveloper/coderinNYC these days?

On 1/18/07, Timothy Boyden <tboyden at supercoups.com> wrote:
> Medical and life insurance - This is the expensive part, without a 
> bulk discount, insurance is like $2000 a month

Actually, this is where a bit of planning can save you a *huge* amount.
Instead of buying insurance - which you have to pay whether you use it
or not - check out Health Savings Accounts (HSA).  They are
*not* the same as FSA's.

You have to get basic catastrophic insurance which covers major things
like cancer, car accidents, etc with a high deductible.  I pay $40/month
and have a $5k deduction.  But then, you get to create a pre-tax savings
account which you can deposit funds into.... and the funds are 100%
yours from day one and grow like a normal savings account.  If you have
the ability to start putting funds into it during your 20's or 30's, you
could have a huge amount in no time...

But the best part is that you can get discounts... remember that many
doctor's offices and hospitals have people who their only job is to
fight with the insurance companies.  When you offer to pay in full right
then and there - via the debit card attached to the account - they often
give discounts.  For example, my wife is knocked out with the flu at the
moment and when I took her to the doctor a couple days ago, they knocked
30% off the bill while we were standing there.

Now let's do the math...
$2000/month for insurance you might not use that month OR $40/month for
insurance you might not use + $1960 into a savings account

For details check out:  http://hsainsider.com/

--
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jan 18 14:31:11 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:31:11 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coderin
	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFBB3D.7040308@php.net>
References: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101055E10AB@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>
	<45AFBB3D.7040308@php.net>
Message-ID: <21486-85418@sneakemail.com>

Chris Shiflett shiflett-at-php.net |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>Nicholas Tang wrote:
>  
>
>>All of those are reasons why I never understood why so many
>>companies hire so many contractors - if I had a choice between
>>hiring someone for a 6 month contract, or to be a full-time
>>employee for 15 months for the same rate, I'd hire them
>>full-time in a second.
>>    
>>
>
>It sounds like you're not considering the fact that you pay the overhead
>whether they're your own employee or not. That 2.4 factor applies to
>businesses with full-time employees as well as consultants.
>
>It might sound like an obvious statement out of context, but salary
>isn't the only expense of doing business. It's the biggest, but the
>other stuff adds up.
>
>Chris
>
>  
>
Chris' number matches what I have known and lived for many years. My 
source numbers  are:

50 weeks per year at 5 days per week - 6 holidays minimum  = 244 days of 
paid work MAX, per year

A good consultant (not just a replacement worker, but someone who has 
unique knowledge of the field) does not "work" for clients 244 days x 8 
hours. She spends 1/2 day per week "learning/advancing/participating" at 
a minimum. That is outside of the typical evenings/weekends stuff we all 
do, and often it costs money (registration and training fees, etc). The 
ones who work for client projects every day all day are the ones who are 
obsolete after a few years. That is why you need consultants. So this 
formula may not apply to "contract workers" as much as "knowledgable 
consultants". So take that consultant billable man-day count down to 210 
*at best* because we have toalso cover the costs of the training and 
education.

Sales takes time and effort, and is covered by the billable work it 
produces. How many days per year are spent selling/getting new work? 
Good months it's zero. Bad months it's 30. I tend to work with 2 or 3 
days per month, but I know that is low. Billable days goes down to 180 
or so. Your company pays additional people for sales, HR, marketing, 
etc. Sometimes we do, sometimes we do it ourselves. Meeting with the 
accountant, interviewing/hiring, handling mandatory legal issues, all 
non-billable time. 2 days per month (4 half-days lost)  is 24 more 
billable days per year. We're at 156.

Typical overhead cost for an employee of this nature is 25-30% 
(self-employment taxes, corp tax and fees, health, workers comp, SSI, 
etc). That's not hard coded, but based on consumption (how sick do you 
get, how much to you draw from beenfits) but it still has to be there. 
After a year of operations, if you count everything and apply weighting 
factors to your performance (I should have sold more, not taken that one 
gig, should never have done that free proposal, etc) you get two 
"factors". One is reality (what you did, for that year) and one is 
estimate based on what you know you can now do. I find the 2.4 factor to 
be low for most challenging jobs, and high for jobs where it's really 
contracted labor more than consulting. But I also recognize that if I 
did more of the "more profitable" contract style jobs (lowering my 
"factor" and thus my "profits") I would become less marketable and have 
to lower my rate. Instead, by doing more challenging work and pushing 
harder at my own expense, I become more unqiue and can raise my rates.



From r.mariotti at fdcx.net  Thu Jan 18 14:34:31 2007
From: r.mariotti at fdcx.net (R. Mariotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:34:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Slightly OT: source example for vertical multi-layer
	menu???
Message-ID: <45AFCBC7.5070003@fdcx.net>


Fellow PHP'ers:

Most of my web based application menus are accomplished using css only 
and they usually suffice.  I have a requirement to insert a 2nd level on 
some of the items.  I've been looking at js examples for such things for 
a couple of days now and I'm no further ahead.

I was hoping that someone might be willing to point/share/whatever a 
simple example of such an animal???

I realize it "might" require some .js to make it happen, but if not, all 
the better.

Does anyone have any recommendations they are willing to share?

Thanks a million for anyone who can (and does)!!!!

bobmct


From kzimmerm at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 14:45:31 2007
From: kzimmerm at yahoo.com (Kurt Zimmerman)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:45:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
Message-ID: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>

OK Fellow PHPers... who has stuff to show off their
best work.... Got any examples of some really neat
things?  

I'm developing a coup to oust the MS Solution shop and
all that overhead nonsense that goes along with it.  

In order for me to do that I call on your input.  

Show me what you got.

Thanks.
Kurt



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.  Try it now.


From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Thu Jan 18 14:51:42 2007
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:51:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Slightly OT: source example for vertical
	multi-layer menu???
In-Reply-To: <45AFCBC7.5070003@fdcx.net>
References: <45AFCBC7.5070003@fdcx.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.4.1363003648.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 02:34 PM 1/18/2007, R. Mariotti wrote:

>Fellow PHP'ers:
>
>Most of my web based application menus are accomplished using css 
>only and they usually suffice.  I have a requirement to insert a 2nd 
>level on some of the items.  I've been looking at js examples for 
>such things for a couple of days now and I'm no further ahead.

One of the best sites I've come across that has many examples of CCS 
based menus is 
Listamatic  <http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/index.htm>. Check 
out the links to other sites on that page also.

If you want to go all the way to Javascript, you might want to look 
into the Yahoo Developer User Interface 
<http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/>, especially the menu interface 
<http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/menu/>.

Ken 



From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Thu Jan 18 14:52:45 2007
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:52:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
	phpdeveloper/coderinNYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CF6@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45AFA409.2080008@php.net> <45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org>
	<C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CE8@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
	<C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CEC@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
	<fd219f0f0701181056w35a48cf9t42cf5640a354795d@mail.gmail.com>
	<C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CF6@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0701181152m6813fe1bl7787cbbf7d0387d@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/18/07, Timothy Boyden <tboyden at supercoups.com> wrote:
> The other thing is if your working for yourself and you become disabled,
> you can't contribute to the HSA anymore so then how do the medical bills
> get paid?

That's what catastrophic insurance is for... sort of by definition.

Yes, you have to spend the money from your Health Savings Account on
medical expenses... sort of by definition.  If you don't, you have to
pay taxes and a penalty... just like a 401k or IRA.

Yes, there are annual limits to how much you can put in.  IIRC, you
can put in upwards of $9k/year.  If you put more more than that, you
have to pay taxes on the extra... just like a 401k or IRA.

The point is that instead of putting that money down the drain in a
normal insurance policy, you have a growing fund that follows you
around.  No, it's not for everyone.  When I graduated from college, I
worked at a fed contractor here in DC where the average age was 47.
For these people, the existing group policy - which worked by
spreading the costs to the healthy 20-somethings - was a good idea and
an HSA would not have made sense.

For healthy 20 or 30-somethings, these plans make quite a bit of
sense.. and I would wager that the majority of people on this list fit
this.  ;)

kc

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


From tedd at sperling.com  Thu Jan 18 14:53:32 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:53:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for 
	phpdeveloper/coderin	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CEC@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com><45AFA409.2080
	008@php.net><45AFA689.7010400@polymerdb.org>
	<C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CE8@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
	<C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A06D1CEC@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
Message-ID: <p06240800c1d57d608489@[192.168.0.100]>

>Taxes - Uncle Sam wants his cut too, the figure varies but it's
>somewhere between 25 - 30% of your pay...


OFF-TOPIC

US Federal taxes currently vary from 28 to 38 percent and that's not 
counting the 15.2 required FICA tax that you and your employer share 
in paying. Nor does it cover the cost of preparing taxes (i.e., tax 
preparer, book keeper, the time you waste).

I figured it up one day and after all the Federal, State, and Local 
taxes we pay in the US, we're lucky to keep 30-40 percent of what we 
earn.

Back before President Reagan, I was forced to immediately (within 3 
days) pay 50 percent of what I made to the Federal government. The 
combination of federal and local taxes were so bad that some 
California entertainers (Arthur Godfrey for one) were required to pay 
105 percent of their earnings. Only government can think that it's 
fair to tax you more than what you make.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From sailer at bnl.gov  Thu Jan 18 15:05:52 2007
From: sailer at bnl.gov (Tim Sailer)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:05:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for phpdeveloper/coder
	in	NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <45AFB04E.5090002@redcent.net>
References: <001f01c73b24$243e69c0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
	<45AFB04E.5090002@redcent.net>
Message-ID: <20070118200552.GA9550@bnl.gov>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 12:37:18PM -0500, Sean Pangia wrote:
> the math i was advised to use to calculate the additional cost above 
> salary of a fulltime employee is 20%-25% of the employee's annual 
> salary. it seems to make sense that the cost is variable, for the most 
> part.

The fully burdened costs of an employee all depends on benefits package.
I see both sides. As a former manager here at this fine institution, 
I know it's much higher than 25%, as for some of the employees, there's a
10% company contribution to the retirement. Health care keeps going up
every year. The company pays the 'other' 7.5% FICA. Paid holidays and
sick time, that adds up to a big chunk.

On the other side, my private business (buoy.com), my costs are less 
for myself, but for the people I use as contractors, it's costly in
this part of the Island, and they're still not getting enough. No
low cost group health plans (Thanks, Suffolk County, and NYS), the
FICA, etc. For coding I can't do myself, I'll contract it on a client
site for $85-95/hr, offsite for $65-75/hr. Not enough, but all the client
can bear, and I need to make a small profit on the job!

2.4 is a low number in this economy, but good luck getting more for coding.
For security work, I can get upwards of $150/hr, but it's just not worth
it, because as the risk goes up, so do the legal fees and insurance 
riders to cover the specific rate. Remember liability insurance. You'll
be glad some day you have it!!! It really hurts to write out that check
every month, but the day something goes wrong...

Tim

-- 
Tim Sailer <sailer at bnl.gov> 
DoE Intelligence and Counterintelligence - Cyber Division
Northeast Regional Counterintelligence Office
Brookhaven National Laboratory  (631) 344-3001


From willie at pdfsystems.com  Thu Jan 18 15:11:57 2007
From: willie at pdfsystems.com (willie klein)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:11:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] fdf question
Message-ID: <EECDF5E03326984FB1DB40FA25957B242505AD@gt1u-w3kfs1.pdfkqs.local>

Hi all;

 

I have an application that needs to take an fdf form, insert data into
it, email it out.

 

I can do this with Java iText.  Is there a way to do it with PHP?

 

I can use the PHP fdf functions and create a document that can be
displayed in a browser but when I save that to email it it contains only
the data that is then inserted into the fdf form.  I need to create a
self contained pdf document.

 

 

Thanks

Willie

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070118/14754550/attachment.html>

From ps at sun-code.com  Thu Jan 18 15:29:20 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:29:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
	phpdeveloper/coderinNYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101055E10AB@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>
Message-ID: <003601c73b3f$5bab4d40$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

The corp budget for contractors often comes from a separate line item
budget than the budget that pays for full-timers. Also, using
contractors keeps the corp off the hook for your medical, vacation,
holiday and long-term retirement. Plus, the corp only use contractors
when needed, where needed. It definitely makes financial sense to the
corp to use contractors. Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Nicholas Tang
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:10 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
phpdeveloper/coderinNYC these days?


I guess a lot depends on whether you look at it as an employer or as an
employee.  From my perspective in terms of what I'd be willing to pay a
contractor, it's nowhere near 2.5x what I'd pay a full-time employee.
I'd pay them what I'd pay a full-time employee plus the savings in
benefits, which is more like 120% instead of 250%.  If they're
especially critical, maybe 150%.  I also prefer to hire full-time people
most of the time.  ;) 

> Money for vacation, sick and personal time - Consulting for yourself,
> you don't work, you don't get paid

Yup.

> Retirement funds - Somebody has to pay me to golf everyday and travel
> after I'm 65 1/2 ;-)

Yup.

> Medical and life insurance - This is the expensive part, 
> without a bulk
> discount, insurance is like $2000 a month

Yup.

> Business equipment/space/expenses - Somebody's got to pay the rent for
> your office space and equipment and related expenses

A lot of contractors work on-site, which eliminates these expenses.

> Taxes - Uncle Sam wants his cut too, the figure varies but it's
> somewhere between 25 - 30% of your pay...

Us full-timers pay taxes too.  :)  If not, I'd be on a yacht right now
instead of in the office.  ;)

> Misc. Benefits - Enjoy that free coffee, gym membership, or other
> activities at the office? Now you get to spring for them...

True, with the caveat above.  (If a contractor's in our office, they can
of course partake of any of the free coffee or other similar benefits as
a full-timer.)

> In addition, you are essentially running a business now so to 
> gather new
> business you have to pay for advertising, treating new and existing
> clients to lunch or dinner to promote new business, pay for your own
> training and certifications, and those trips to MacWorld, GeekCruise,
> etc...

Yup.

All of those are reasons why I never understood why so many companies
hire so many contractors - if I had a choice between hiring someone for
a 6 month contract, or to be a full-time employee for 15 months for the
same rate, I'd hire them full-time in a second.  It makes no sense to me
to pay such a huge premium for the same thing.  (And someone's value
goes up to me over time as they learn how the company works, how our
technology works, etc.  It can take weeks to get someone up to speed on
a new environment and practices, and it's a lot easier to eat that
"cost" over the course of full-time employment than if you bring in a
short-term contractor.)

Nicholas
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From sailer at bnl.gov  Thu Jan 18 15:38:48 2007
From: sailer at bnl.gov (Tim Sailer)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:38:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for
	phpdeveloper/coderinNYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <003601c73b3f$5bab4d40$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E9101055E10AB@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>
	<003601c73b3f$5bab4d40$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <20070118203848.GA11663@bnl.gov>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 03:29:20PM -0500, Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> The corp budget for contractors often comes from a separate line item
> budget than the budget that pays for full-timers. Also, using
> contractors keeps the corp off the hook for your medical, vacation,
> holiday and long-term retirement. Plus, the corp only use contractors
> when needed, where needed. It definitely makes financial sense to the
> corp to use contractors. Peter

Right. The only time it makes sense to hire fulltime instead of 1099
is if the job will span more than a year. Under that, the job is over,
the contract labor force moves on. Otherwise, you have to fire/lay off, 
you rack up your unemployment insurance costs, etc. Messy, expensive.

Tim

PS: Yes, employers actually have to pay into the unemployment insurance
pot and have to hope they never fire anyone that will try to collect.
When claims are made against the escrow, the employer has to start paying
a higher rate, so you cost them money even after you are laid off.

-- 
Tim Sailer <sailer at bnl.gov> 
DoE Intelligence and Counterintelligence - Cyber Division
Northeast Regional Counterintelligence Office
Brookhaven National Laboratory  (631) 344-3001


From ken at secdat.com  Thu Jan 18 15:46:39 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:46:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45AFDCAF.9070800@secdat.com>

Kurt Zimmerman wrote:
> OK Fellow PHPers... who has stuff to show off their
> best work.... Got any examples of some really neat
> things?  
>   

This is kind of a broad question, can you narrow down a little what you 
are looking for?  Intranet, extranet?  Online store and shopping cart?  
Graphic design or back-end?

>
>
>  
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.  Try it now.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>   

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070118/0cef3310/attachment.vcf>

From r.mariotti at fdcx.net  Thu Jan 18 16:13:14 2007
From: r.mariotti at fdcx.net (R. Mariotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:13:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: OT: menu ...
In-Reply-To: <200701182049.l0IKnHM8016628@post.ntplx.net>
References: <200701182049.l0IKnHM8016628@post.ntplx.net>
Message-ID: <45AFE2EA.30808@fdcx.net>

>> Fellow PHP'ers:
>>
>> Most of my web based application menus are accomplished using css 
>> only and they usually suffice.  I have a requirement to insert a 2nd 
>> level on some of the items.  I've been looking at js examples for 
>> such things for a couple of days now and I'm no further ahead.
> 
> One of the best sites I've come across that has many examples of CCS 
> based menus is 
> Listamatic  <http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/index.htm>. Check 
> out the links to other sites on that page also.
> 
> If you want to go all the way to Javascript, you might want to look 
> into the Yahoo Developer User Interface 
> <http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/>, especially the menu interface 
> <http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/menu/>.
> 
> Ken 

Thanks for the quick reply, Ken!

The Listamatic seems to contain just about everything I was asking for.

Thanks again for a time (and frustration) saver...

bobmct


From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 16:51:33 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:51:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <45AFDCAF.9070800@secdat.com>
References: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
	<45AFDCAF.9070800@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0701181351l715be31co6a81cc493917b487@mail.gmail.com>

yeh, we could show you a variety of things, and none of them would be what
you wished to see. be more specific please

On 1/18/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>
> Kurt Zimmerman wrote:
> > OK Fellow PHPers... who has stuff to show off their
> > best work.... Got any examples of some really neat
> > things?
> >
>
> This is kind of a broad question, can you narrow down a little what you
> are looking for?  Intranet, extranet?  Online store and shopping cart?
> Graphic design or back-end?
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.  Try
> it now.
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>


-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070118/9b3c692d/attachment.html>

From glm at cyborgspiders.com  Thu Jan 18 18:47:52 2007
From: glm at cyborgspiders.com (Gregory L. Magnusson)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:47:52 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP shopping cart continued
In-Reply-To: <200701181613.l0IGDoGE049969@drizzle.quadrant.net>
References: <200701181613.l0IGDoGE049969@drizzle.quadrant.net>
Message-ID: <45B00728.90003@cyborgspiders.com>

I am looking for a BSD licensed shopping cart coded in PHP. I have found
MyMarket

http://mymarket.sourceforge.net/
Does anyone have any other leads?


From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Jan 18 20:05:07 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:05:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <b05cec1c0701181351l715be31co6a81cc493917b487@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>	<45AFDCAF.9070800@secdat.com>
	<b05cec1c0701181351l715be31co6a81cc493917b487@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45B01943.2000907@gmx.net>

Nazmul Hassan wrote:
> yeh, we could show you a variety of things, and none of them would be 
> what you wished to see. be more specific please
> 
> On 1/18/07, *Kenneth Downs* < ken at secdat.com <mailto:ken at secdat.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Kurt Zimmerman wrote:
>      > OK Fellow PHPers... who has stuff to show off their
>      > best work.... Got any examples of some really neat
>      > things?
>      >
> 
>     This is kind of a broad question, can you narrow down a little what you
>     are looking for?  Intranet, extranet?  Online store and shopping cart?
>     Graphic design or back-end?
> 

Exactly, code that I write and think is plain awesome is something that 
some on this list wouldn't even wipe their behinds with. The highlight 
of my PHP skills is getting a jpg from my digicam rotated on the 
fly...or making a temporary table in MySQL for sorting, because I have 
no clue on how to write proper SQL statements with JOINs and all this 
neat stuff.

I am amazed by what I, who hates programming, can do using PHP. The real 
  PHP apps wipe the floor with my stuff. I still think that my image 
viewer is kewl and thanks to this list it even shows the thumbnails.

David


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 20:13:59 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:13:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <45B01943.2000907@gmx.net>
References: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
	<45AFDCAF.9070800@secdat.com>
	<b05cec1c0701181351l715be31co6a81cc493917b487@mail.gmail.com>
	<45B01943.2000907@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701181713j4535be92n14c793a6ee044e03@mail.gmail.com>

I wrote something for windows once that was cool.

I could run a script that would reach out to superpages.com, it would
recursively get all companies names/address/city/emai/url, etc from my
state.  It would then store them in the db.

A seperate process would run based on the db content and and MS Word
Template would create the mail merge interacting with MS Word.  The
end result would be a word document i could print, it was a mail merge
document so it was about 200 letters addressed to different people.  I
also had this process create the word document for the envelopes too.

Run the process, print, stuff, send ;)

However that only worked on windows but boy did it save me time.

End result?  People throw away mail like this lol I think i got 1
client from 400 mailings.
I think i trashed this code and was going to create something similar
that was less resource intensive and would use PDF, but it was a
learning experience using COM from within a php command line script :)

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 20:40:26 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:40:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701181713j4535be92n14c793a6ee044e03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
	<45AFDCAF.9070800@secdat.com>
	<b05cec1c0701181351l715be31co6a81cc493917b487@mail.gmail.com>
	<45B01943.2000907@gmx.net>
	<8d9a42800701181713j4535be92n14c793a6ee044e03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0701181740m6ed4dbeal6204982dbdfcef7c@mail.gmail.com>

well, i made something that fetched the definitions. showing that 9th
graders don't do work, i made a script that got us vocab words, and listed
them, so all we had to do was print them. so basically, its
run the process, get, print

http://nhassan.sveit.com/def

On 1/18/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I wrote something for windows once that was cool.
>
> I could run a script that would reach out to superpages.com, it would
> recursively get all companies names/address/city/emai/url, etc from my
> state.  It would then store them in the db.
>
> A seperate process would run based on the db content and and MS Word
> Template would create the mail merge interacting with MS Word.  The
> end result would be a word document i could print, it was a mail merge
> document so it was about 200 letters addressed to different people.  I
> also had this process create the word document for the envelopes too.
>
> Run the process, print, stuff, send ;)
>
> However that only worked on windows but boy did it save me time.
>
> End result?  People throw away mail like this lol I think i got 1
> client from 400 mailings.
> I think i trashed this code and was going to create something similar
> that was less resource intensive and would use PDF, but it was a
> learning experience using COM from within a php command line script :)
>
> --
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070118/99f849b0/attachment.html>

From arzala at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 23:36:07 2007
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:06:07 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200701191006.07508.arzala@gmail.com>

On Thursday 18 January 2007 21:41, edward potter wrote:
> Ok, just to keep everyone up to date, based on interviews to date, the
> going rate for a 6 month contract with someone with a solid
> php/developer background/graduate degree in IT right now seems to top
> out out $60/hr based on a 6 month contract. A HOT flash programmer,
> "may" get up to $100 an hour for a short term assignment.
>
> Everyone seems to be SUPER hot on javascript/ajax/css integration
> applications.  The browser has become the boss. Some of the gui work
> I'm seeing is MIND blowing. Flash is used sparingly, but EVERYONE uses
> the flash player to deliver video.
>
> Mood in most offices?  Not anywhere as excited as the boom, but based
> on the world today, I can understand it. Most folks seem a bit grumpy
> and just happy to be employed. That WOW, we're going to change the
> world spark seems to have dimmed a bit, but who knows, I'm still
> optimistic.
>
> PS, outsourced to India, php rates start at about $10 per hour.  A NYC
> union electrician/plumber is about $85/hr. My NYU surgeon is $250/$350
> per follow-up visit, she seems to see 2/3 patients an hour. Surgery is
> about $16,000 - $22,000 for every hour under the knife. A NYC hospital
> stay is
> $10,000/ night -  includes fruit salad. :-)

$10,000/a night, Is it really true? And is surgery also counted by hours? It 
means to earn more money a surgeon can hold knife in his hands for 1 extra 
hour and he gets paid another 16 000 - 20 000$ ?

>
> In other words, a good health insurance policy is probably worth it no
> matter what the cost.
>
> yipes!
>
> -ed

-- 
Anirudh Zala
(Building standards)


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 00:25:50 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:25:50 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <200701191006.07508.arzala@gmail.com>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200701191006.07508.arzala@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701182125u5de8c01ald358115909e242ea@mail.gmail.com>

That's an average for the typical surgical procedure - (ballpark avg).
 That's gets you a surgeon, resident, anesthesiologist, and a nurse in
an NYC hospital. This is a VERY rough cost figure. You can take almost
any operation, and your bell curve will probably fall somewhere around
those numbers. I'm guessing the majority of surgeons make between
$250-$750K per year in Manhattan.

And yes, if you go in self pay (this was about 3 years ago), your
deposit is $10G per day at New York Hospital - of course Manhattan
probably has the cream of the crop in health care, if not the best in
the world. With some google'ing I guess you can cut your cost, Brazil
for plastic surgery, Korea for rhinoplasty, etc.

I still think the web is really under-utilized in the medical field,
still has a long way to go. As the boomers hit their end years, expect
this market to explode. You would thing that the defense budget is
big?- that "ain't nothing" compared to health-care costs. For some
reason people just don't want to ride off into the sunset, they want
to hang around as long as possible!  :-)

Tips?  NEVER go into any operation without google'ing your MD, and the
procedure. From my experience, MDs are very happy when you go into an
appointment with a list of relevant references, links, refs from
journals, etc. - also teaching hospitals seem to always have the best
MDs, at least in my experience.

Actually my surgeon was a she. :-)

sorry, slightly off topic!  yipes!

>
> $10,000/a night, Is it really true? And is surgery also counted by hours? It
> means to earn more money a surgeon can hold knife in his hands for 1 extra
> hour and he gets paid another 16 000 - 20 000$ ?
>
> >
> > In other words, a good health insurance policy is probably worth it no
> > matter what the cost.

> > -ed
>
> --
> Anirudh Zala
> (Building standards)
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From aarong at thinkcomputer.com  Fri Jan 19 04:09:46 2007
From: aarong at thinkcomputer.com (Aaron Greenspan)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 01:09:46 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
Message-ID: <45B08ADA.4010203@thinkcomputer.com>

Hi Kurt,

The PHP achievement I'm most proud of is my home-grown accounting 
software, which creates my IRS Form 1120S for me, filled in 
(accurately), in PDF format. If other people on the list want to give it 
a try, just visit my site.

Aaron

Aaron Greenspan
President & CEO
Think Computer Corporation

http://www.thinkcomputer.com


From sean712 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 10:23:22 2007
From: sean712 at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:23:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for php developer/coder
	in NYC these days?
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701182125u5de8c01ald358115909e242ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c5949a380701180811if03efacid22f2352eb533fa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200701191006.07508.arzala@gmail.com>
	<c5949a380701182125u5de8c01ald358115909e242ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d953ccea0701190723h4d99c601g53115f1b96b7da77@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah it is about 10,000 a night for inpatients.  On top of that you get
charged for the procedure and for the doctor administering the procedure.
Makes much more sense to have insurance

On 1/19/07, edward potter <edwardpotter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That's an average for the typical surgical procedure - (ballpark avg).
> That's gets you a surgeon, resident, anesthesiologist, and a nurse in
> an NYC hospital. This is a VERY rough cost figure. You can take almost
> any operation, and your bell curve will probably fall somewhere around
> those numbers. I'm guessing the majority of surgeons make between
> $250-$750K per year in Manhattan.
>
> And yes, if you go in self pay (this was about 3 years ago), your
> deposit is $10G per day at New York Hospital - of course Manhattan
> probably has the cream of the crop in health care, if not the best in
> the world. With some google'ing I guess you can cut your cost, Brazil
> for plastic surgery, Korea for rhinoplasty, etc.
>
> I still think the web is really under-utilized in the medical field,
> still has a long way to go. As the boomers hit their end years, expect
> this market to explode. You would thing that the defense budget is
> big?- that "ain't nothing" compared to health-care costs. For some
> reason people just don't want to ride off into the sunset, they want
> to hang around as long as possible!  :-)
>
> Tips?  NEVER go into any operation without google'ing your MD, and the
> procedure. From my experience, MDs are very happy when you go into an
> appointment with a list of relevant references, links, refs from
> journals, etc. - also teaching hospitals seem to always have the best
> MDs, at least in my experience.
>
> Actually my surgeon was a she. :-)
>
> sorry, slightly off topic!  yipes!
>
> >
> > $10,000/a night, Is it really true? And is surgery also counted by
> hours? It
> > means to earn more money a surgeon can hold knife in his hands for 1
> extra
> > hour and he gets paid another 16 000 - 20 000$ ?
> >
> > >
> > > In other words, a good health insurance policy is probably worth it no
> > > matter what the cost.
>
> > > -ed
> >
> > --
> > Anirudh Zala
> > (Building standards)
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
> --
> the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070119/f3c21df0/attachment.html>

From strudeau at umich.edu  Fri Jan 19 10:27:00 2007
From: strudeau at umich.edu (Scott Trudeau)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:27:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <90174f6c0701190727o11d52e21rdb7bb83142a62eb8@mail.gmail.com>

Kind of a vague question...

Recently I rewrote almost entirely http://viralvideos.com in about a
week ...  I didn't do the design, but I (re)did all the html, css, php
and javascript.  The only code left from the original version is a
little bit of screen scraping code and one or two short helper
functions.  Smarty + jQuery made life easy.

Scott

On 1/18/07, Kurt Zimmerman <kzimmerm at yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK Fellow PHPers... who has stuff to show off their
> best work.... Got any examples of some really neat
> things?
>
> I'm developing a coup to oust the MS Solution shop and
> all that overhead nonsense that goes along with it.
>
> In order for me to do that I call on your input.
>
> Show me what you got.
>
> Thanks.
> Kurt
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.  Try it now.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From stephen at capellic.com  Fri Jan 19 10:44:59 2007
From: stephen at capellic.com (Stephen Musgrave)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:44:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gmail breaks URLs?
Message-ID: <811BACC4-61B3-4A75-8190-20FAB0BE83AA@capellic.com>

I have a double opt-in workflow on a site I am building.  The user  
signs up for membership, they are sent a confirmation email.  There  
is a link in the confirmation email that they must click in order to  
validate their account.  The URL is showing up in Gmail with spaces  
randomly inserting into it, thus breaking the URL.

Here's an example:

http://staging.looq. com/members/validate.php?id= 4917

There's a space after "looq." and before "com/"

There is another space between "id=" and "4917"

The format of the email is HTML.  Looking at the raw source, here's  
what I see:

<a href="ht
tp://staging.looq.com/members/validate.php?id= 4917">http:// 
staging.looq.
com/members/validate.php?id= 4917</a>

Any ideas of what is causing this?


From lk613m at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 11:00:40 2007
From: lk613m at yahoo.com (LK)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 08:00:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
Message-ID: <20070119160041.60401.qmail@web53303.mail.yahoo.com>

Wow! Did you also write the "Saddam's Unseen Video ??" http://viralvideos.com/video/2396 - spooky stuff !

Leo


----- Original Message ----
From: Scott Trudeau <strudeau at umich.edu>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:27:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work


Kind of a vague question...

Recently I rewrote almost entirely http://viralvideos.com in about a
week ...  I didn't do the design, but I (re)did all the html, css, php
and javascript.  The only code left from the original version is a
little bit of screen scraping code and one or two short helper
functions.  Smarty + jQuery made life easy.

Scott

On 1/18/07, Kurt Zimmerman <kzimmerm at yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK Fellow PHPers... who has stuff to show off their
> best work.... Got any examples of some really neat
> things?
>
> I'm developing a coup to oust the MS Solution shop and
> all that overhead nonsense that goes along with it.
>
> In order for me to do that I call on your input.
>
> Show me what you got.
>
> Thanks.
> Kurt
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.  Try it now.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.  
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070119/d2f88f2f/attachment.html>

From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Fri Jan 19 11:04:27 2007
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:04:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0701190804w6b454d1dld715b4f45ba2d4cc@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/18/07, Kurt Zimmerman <kzimmerm at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm developing a coup to oust the MS Solution shop and
> all that overhead nonsense that goes along with it.
>
> In order for me to do that I call on your input.

I have nothing to do with it, but I recently found out that all of
http://www.army.mil/ is 100% php.

kc

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


From ps at sun-code.com  Fri Jan 19 11:54:20 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:54:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gmail breaks URLs?
In-Reply-To: <811BACC4-61B3-4A75-8190-20FAB0BE83AA@capellic.com>
Message-ID: <001901c73bea$7e15ea60$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

When the URL is being built, are any of the vars or data coming from a
database being used untrimmed. That is, does any of the source data have
some unintentional space padding around the data? Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Stephen Musgrave
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:45 AM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gmail breaks URLs?


I have a double opt-in workflow on a site I am building.  The user  
signs up for membership, they are sent a confirmation email.  There  
is a link in the confirmation email that they must click in order to  
validate their account.  The URL is showing up in Gmail with spaces  
randomly inserting into it, thus breaking the URL.

Here's an example:

http://staging.looq. com/members/validate.php?id= 4917

There's a space after "looq." and before "com/"

There is another space between "id=" and "4917"

The format of the email is HTML.  Looking at the raw source, here's  
what I see:

<a href="ht
tp://staging.looq.com/members/validate.php?id= 4917">http:// 
staging.looq.
com/members/validate.php?id= 4917</a>

Any ideas of what is causing this?
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 12:24:11 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:24:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <fd219f0f0701190804w6b454d1dld715b4f45ba2d4cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070118194531.34216.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com>
	<fd219f0f0701190804w6b454d1dld715b4f45ba2d4cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701190924v265f85c2v605aaf427f0f1b97@mail.gmail.com>

Oh now that's just too much, my stomach hurts now lol
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 12:42:32 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:42:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gmail breaks URLs?
In-Reply-To: <001901c73bea$7e15ea60$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <811BACC4-61B3-4A75-8190-20FAB0BE83AA@capellic.com>
	<001901c73bea$7e15ea60$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701190942jce346b6jc55cf0e76f63db93@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe you should urlencode the url that might stop it from breaking
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Fri Jan 19 13:38:42 2007
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:38:42 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gmail breaks URLs?
In-Reply-To: <811BACC4-61B3-4A75-8190-20FAB0BE83AA@capellic.com>
References: <811BACC4-61B3-4A75-8190-20FAB0BE83AA@capellic.com>
Message-ID: <45B11032.5090402@polymerdb.org>

Stephen Musgrave wrote:
> The URL is showing up in Gmail with spaces  
> randomly inserting into it, thus breaking the URL.
> 
> Here's an example:
> 
> http://staging.looq. com/members/validate.php?id= 4917
> 
Is there any chance these spaces are in the actual email you're sending, 
meaning it's not Gmail's fault?

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)


From stephen at capellic.com  Fri Jan 19 14:39:52 2007
From: stephen at capellic.com (Stephen Musgrave)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:39:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gmail breaks URLs?
In-Reply-To: <45B11032.5090402@polymerdb.org>
References: <811BACC4-61B3-4A75-8190-20FAB0BE83AA@capellic.com>
	<45B11032.5090402@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <8C4BC03F-0C95-4962-9CF3-806AE256B8AD@capellic.com>

This issue isn't showing up with any other email readers.

On Jan 19, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Allen Shaw wrote:

> Stephen Musgrave wrote:
>> The URL is showing up in Gmail with spaces  randomly inserting  
>> into it, thus breaking the URL.
>> Here's an example:
>> http://staging.looq. com/members/validate.php?id= 4917
> Is there any chance these spaces are in the actual email you're  
> sending, meaning it's not Gmail's fault?
>
> -- 
> Allen Shaw
> Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
> slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>



From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 15:08:08 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:08:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gmail breaks URLs?
In-Reply-To: <8C4BC03F-0C95-4962-9CF3-806AE256B8AD@capellic.com>
References: <811BACC4-61B3-4A75-8190-20FAB0BE83AA@capellic.com>
	<45B11032.5090402@polymerdb.org>
	<8C4BC03F-0C95-4962-9CF3-806AE256B8AD@capellic.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701191208s32734357ifbff3db513b6ce22@mail.gmail.com>

Stephen,

Did you try to encode the URL?

Thanks,

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From nate at cakephp.org  Fri Jan 19 15:08:04 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:08:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <20070119165025.AD1A210A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070119165025.AD1A210A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <A8AAD2DF-B6A4-4205-8041-1C0B839E6BA9@cakephp.org>

My best work is probably CakePHP.
http://cakephp.org/


From cliff at pinestream.com  Fri Jan 19 15:14:01 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:14:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <A8AAD2DF-B6A4-4205-8041-1C0B839E6BA9@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <003701c73c06$5c671bc0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

Amen.

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Nate Abele
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:08 PM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work

My best work is probably CakePHP.
http://cakephp.org/



From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Fri Jan 19 15:20:39 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:20:39 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <003701c73c06$5c671bc0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <003701c73c06$5c671bc0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <19207-61852@sneakemail.com>

Hah. My best work is in progress right now. :-)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From jbaer at VillageVoice.com  Fri Jan 19 15:35:05 2007
From: jbaer at VillageVoice.com (Baer, Jon)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:35:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work
In-Reply-To: <A8AAD2DF-B6A4-4205-8041-1C0B839E6BA9@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA245040E7EDA@mail>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

My best work is anything that uses CakePHP ;-) 

- -----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Nate Abele
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:08 PM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] show me your best work

My best work is probably CakePHP.
http://cakephp.org/
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFFsSt599e5DI8C/rsRAl3vAJ4l/hoiyAPoJE5B5xsAvpJxp7hzvwCfZFth
WMpefR+CxBh4kqJqqGDzWVc=
=QnAk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From donnamarievincent at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 15:44:56 2007
From: donnamarievincent at yahoo.com (Donna Marie Vincent)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:44:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
Message-ID: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi, all.  I am looking for a script, or a tutorial on how to create a script, that will perform a radial zip code search.  I Googled this "radial zip code" and "radial postcode" and have found nothing about how to do this.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks in advance!

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070119/ae786c7e/attachment.html>

From stephen at capellic.com  Fri Jan 19 15:51:03 2007
From: stephen at capellic.com (Stephen Musgrave)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:51:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gmail breaks URLs?
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701191208s32734357ifbff3db513b6ce22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <811BACC4-61B3-4A75-8190-20FAB0BE83AA@capellic.com>
	<45B11032.5090402@polymerdb.org>
	<8C4BC03F-0C95-4962-9CF3-806AE256B8AD@capellic.com>
	<8d9a42800701191208s32734357ifbff3db513b6ce22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D5C9BA1A-5988-4C27-8AE0-9235D58E71E3@capellic.com>

I found the error which in fact wasn't related to Gmail.  There was a  
space in the URL.  My bad.  Thanks and sorry!



On Jan 19, 2007, at 3:08 PM, Joseph Crawford wrote:

> Stephen,
>
> Did you try to encode the URL?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- 
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>



From stephen at capellic.com  Fri Jan 19 15:56:44 2007
From: stephen at capellic.com (Stephen Musgrave)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:56:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <946A9D46-8099-4F83-843C-60F12D77ED57@capellic.com>

http://www.myzipdb.com/zipcode_locator.php


On Jan 19, 2007, at 3:44 PM, Donna Marie Vincent wrote:

> Hi, all.  I am looking for a script, or a tutorial on how to create  
> a script, that will perform a radial zip code search.  I Googled  
> this "radial zip code" and "radial postcode" and have found nothing  
> about how to do this.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
> Thanks in advance!
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From jbaer at VillageVoice.com  Fri Jan 19 15:54:28 2007
From: jbaer at VillageVoice.com (Baer, Jon)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:54:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA245040E7EE5@mail>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

You might want to try a new GIS topic search @ MySQL ...

Here is an old one from 2004 -
http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?23,3868,3868

An inexpensive solution ... http://www.myzipdb.com/zipcode_locator.php

- - Jon 

- -----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Donna Marie Vincent
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:45 PM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search

Hi, all.  I am looking for a script, or a tutorial on how to create a
script, that will perform a radial zip code search.  I Googled this
"radial zip code" and "radial postcode" and have found nothing about how
to do this.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks in advance!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFFsTAE99e5DI8C/rsRAmC/AKDq1EOwQO1WHnfXcXBDgmcPr3WPYwCcDrum
8bFq8+ciezOt432+x/zgDCI=
=9lks
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From dorgan at optonline.net  Fri Jan 19 16:14:09 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:14:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA245040E7EE5@mail>
References: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA245040E7EE5@mail>
Message-ID: <45B134A1.7070200@optonline.net>

WEll i am assuming you have a postal zipcodes database with longitude 
and latitude here is the queries you want to use, first you need to get 
long and lat for zipcode

SELECT longitutde,latitude
FROM usa
WHERE zipcode=$zip


SELECT distinct zipcode,
ROUND((ACOS((SIN($lat/57.2958) * SIN(latitude/57.2958)) +
(COS($lat/57.2958) * COS(latitude/57.2958) *
COS(longitude/57.2958 - $long/57.2958)))) * 3963, 3) AS distance
FROM usa
WHERE (latitude >= $lat - ($miles/111))
AND (latitude <= $lat + ($miles/111))
AND (longitude >= $long - ($miles/111))
AND (longitude <= $long + ($miles/111))
ORDER BY distance



Baer, Jon wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> You might want to try a new GIS topic search @ MySQL ...
>
> Here is an old one from 2004 -
> http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?23,3868,3868
>
> An inexpensive solution ... http://www.myzipdb.com/zipcode_locator.php
>
> - - Jon 
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Donna Marie Vincent
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:45 PM
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
>
> Hi, all.  I am looking for a script, or a tutorial on how to create a
> script, that will perform a radial zip code search.  I Googled this
> "radial zip code" and "radial postcode" and have found nothing about how
> to do this.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
> Thanks in advance!
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32)
>
> iD8DBQFFsTAE99e5DI8C/rsRAmC/AKDq1EOwQO1WHnfXcXBDgmcPr3WPYwCcDrum
> 8bFq8+ciezOt432+x/zgDCI=
> =9lks
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>   


From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 16:14:48 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:14:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <45B134A1.7070200@optonline.net>
References: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA245040E7EE5@mail>
	<45B134A1.7070200@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701191314y35a8cb68u2780638899e14208@mail.gmail.com>

take a look here
http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/Scripts_and_Programs/Zip_Code_Locators/index.html

On 1/19/07, Donald J Organ IV <dorgan at optonline.net> wrote:
> WEll i am assuming you have a postal zipcodes database with longitude
> and latitude here is the queries you want to use, first you need to get
> long and lat for zipcode
>
> SELECT longitutde,latitude
> FROM usa
> WHERE zipcode=$zip
>
>
> SELECT distinct zipcode,
> ROUND((ACOS((SIN($lat/57.2958) * SIN(latitude/57.2958)) +
> (COS($lat/57.2958) * COS(latitude/57.2958) *
> COS(longitude/57.2958 - $long/57.2958)))) * 3963, 3) AS distance
> FROM usa
> WHERE (latitude >= $lat - ($miles/111))
> AND (latitude <= $lat + ($miles/111))
> AND (longitude >= $long - ($miles/111))
> AND (longitude <= $long + ($miles/111))
> ORDER BY distance
>
>
>
> Baer, Jon wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > You might want to try a new GIS topic search @ MySQL ...
> >
> > Here is an old one from 2004 -
> > http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?23,3868,3868
> >
> > An inexpensive solution ... http://www.myzipdb.com/zipcode_locator.php
> >
> > - - Jon
> >
> > - -----Original Message-----
> > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> > On Behalf Of Donna Marie Vincent
> > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:45 PM
> > To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
> >
> > Hi, all.  I am looking for a script, or a tutorial on how to create a
> > script, that will perform a radial zip code search.  I Googled this
> > "radial zip code" and "radial postcode" and have found nothing about how
> > to do this.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32)
> >
> > iD8DBQFFsTAE99e5DI8C/rsRAmC/AKDq1EOwQO1WHnfXcXBDgmcPr3WPYwCcDrum
> > 8bFq8+ciezOt432+x/zgDCI=
> > =9lks
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From enolists at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 16:31:40 2007
From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:31:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701191314y35a8cb68u2780638899e14208@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA245040E7EE5@mail><45B134A1.7070200@optonline.net>
	<8d9a42800701191314y35a8cb68u2780638899e14208@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00dc01c73c11$36607470$6400a8c0@enobrev>

I'd posted one on this list a couple years ago.

Found it in the archive:
http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2003-November/006445.html

I believe someone followed up and mentioned the actual source of the
function, or at least a very similar one, but I can't seem to find that
post.

Good Luck, and have a great weekend, all.

Mark 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org 
> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:15 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
> 
> take a look here
> http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/Scripts_and_Programs/Zip_Code_Lo
> cators/index.html
> 
> On 1/19/07, Donald J Organ IV <dorgan at optonline.net> wrote:
> > WEll i am assuming you have a postal zipcodes database with 
> longitude 
> > and latitude here is the queries you want to use, first you need to 
> > get long and lat for zipcode
> >
> > SELECT longitutde,latitude
> > FROM usa
> > WHERE zipcode=$zip
> >
> >
> > SELECT distinct zipcode,
> > ROUND((ACOS((SIN($lat/57.2958) * SIN(latitude/57.2958)) +
> > (COS($lat/57.2958) * COS(latitude/57.2958) *
> > COS(longitude/57.2958 - $long/57.2958)))) * 3963, 3) AS 
> distance FROM 
> > usa WHERE (latitude >= $lat - ($miles/111)) AND (latitude <= $lat + 
> > ($miles/111)) AND (longitude >= $long - ($miles/111)) AND 
> (longitude 
> > <= $long + ($miles/111)) ORDER BY distance
> >
> >
> >
> > Baer, Jon wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > You might want to try a new GIS topic search @ MySQL ...
> > >
> > > Here is an old one from 2004 -
> > > http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?23,3868,3868
> > >
> > > An inexpensive solution ... 
> > > http://www.myzipdb.com/zipcode_locator.php
> > >
> > > - - Jon
> > >
> > > - -----Original Message-----
> > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org 
> > > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Donna Marie Vincent
> > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:45 PM
> > > To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> > > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
> > >
> > > Hi, all.  I am looking for a script, or a tutorial on how 
> to create 
> > > a script, that will perform a radial zip code search.  I Googled 
> > > this "radial zip code" and "radial postcode" and have 
> found nothing 
> > > about how to do this.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
> > > Thanks in advance!
> > >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32)
> > >
> > > iD8DBQFFsTAE99e5DI8C/rsRAmC/AKDq1EOwQO1WHnfXcXBDgmcPr3WPYwCcDrum
> > > 8bFq8+ciezOt432+x/zgDCI=
> > > =9lks
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 



From donnamarievincent at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 08:49:21 2007
From: donnamarievincent at yahoo.com (Donna Marie Vincent)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 05:49:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
Message-ID: <20070120134921.49645.qmail@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Wow, thanks for all the great info! 

I had tried searching Hotscripts but apparently used the wrong keywords.  I used "radial ..."





From urb at e-government.com  Sat Jan 20 15:37:33 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:37:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <946A9D46-8099-4F83-843C-60F12D77ED57@capellic.com>
References: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<946A9D46-8099-4F83-843C-60F12D77ED57@capellic.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070120153636.0270ae78@e-government.com>


>>Hi, all.  I am looking for a script, or a tutorial on how to create
>>a script, that will perform a radial zip code search.  I Googled
>>this "radial zip code" and "radial postcode" and have found nothing
>>about how to do this.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>>Thanks in advance!

         Please define what you mean by a radial zip code search.Do
you mean calculate the distance between two zip codes?

Urb




From paul at devonianfarm.com  Sun Jan 21 02:24:40 2007
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul Houle)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 02:24:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <45B134A1.7070200@optonline.net>
References: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA245040E7EE5@mail>
	<45B134A1.7070200@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <45B31538.3040304@devonianfarm.com>

    The following query,  from Donald J Organ IV,  is an elegant 
answer,  but it involves a full table scan:
>
> SELECT distinct zipcode,
> ROUND((ACOS((SIN($lat/57.2958) * SIN(latitude/57.2958)) +
> (COS($lat/57.2958) * COS(latitude/57.2958) *
> COS(longitude/57.2958 - $long/57.2958)))) * 3963, 3) AS distance
> FROM usa
> WHERE (latitude >= $lat - ($miles/111))
> AND (latitude <= $lat + ($miles/111))
> AND (longitude >= $long - ($miles/111))
> AND (longitude <= $long + ($miles/111))
> ORDER BY distance
>
    Basically,  mysql has to go through every zipcode in the database (a 
few thousand),  do a mathematical calculation,  sort the results,  then 
pick out the top few.  You ought to benchmark this.  Since mysql is the 
fastest database in the west,  you might find that the performance is 
acceptable -- but it won't scale well when the number of points in the 
database gets larger.

    Mysql 5 has spatial extensions that create special index structures 
to do this kind of query:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/spatial-extensions.html

    If you're running a recent version of mysql,  you may find that you 
can get better performance this way.



From urb at e-government.com  Mon Jan 22 01:14:51 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:14:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070122011412.00ec29b8@e-government.com>


>  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>Thanks in advance!

`       Is this what you're looking to do?

http://phpphanatic.com/zipcodes

Urb

>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php




From codebowl at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 07:34:09 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 07:34:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070122011412.00ec29b8@e-government.com>
References: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070122011412.00ec29b8@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701220434t35b1ff6dn551034c8b3bf1156@mail.gmail.com>

That's a nice setup but something is wrong there

There are 8 Zip codes withing a 5 miles radius of 05701
They are:
05251 Dorset, VT 0.85 miles
05701 Rutland, VT 0.00 miles
05702 Rutland, VT 0.00 miles
05736 Center Rutland, VT 2.59 miles
05744 Florence, VT 3.57 miles
05759 North Clarendon, VT 2.13 miles
05765 Proctor, VT 4.57 miles
05777 West Rutland, VT 3.57 miles

Dorset is a lot more than 0.85 miles.  It's really about 25 street miles.

On 1/22/07, Urb LeJeune <urb at e-government.com> wrote:
>
> >  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
> >Thanks in advance!
>
> `       Is this what you're looking to do?
>
> http://phpphanatic.com/zipcodes
>
> Urb
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> >NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> >http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> >Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> >http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From urb at e-government.com  Mon Jan 22 09:39:29 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:39:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zip Code Stuff
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701220434t35b1ff6dn551034c8b3bf1156@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070122011412.00ec29b8@e-government.com>
	<8d9a42800701220434t35b1ff6dn551034c8b3bf1156@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070122092056.02906868@e-government.com>


>There are 8 Zip codes withing a 5 miles radius of 05701
>They are:
>05251 Dorset, VT 0.85 miles
>05701 Rutland, VT 0.00 miles
>05702 Rutland, VT 0.00 miles
>05736 Center Rutland, VT 2.59 miles
>05744 Florence, VT 3.57 miles
>05759 North Clarendon, VT 2.13 miles
>05765 Proctor, VT 4.57 miles
>05777 West Rutland, VT 3.57 miles
>
>Dorset is a lot more than 0.85 miles.  It's really about 25 street miles.

         The program uses longevity and latitude from a commercial zip
code database. It calculates the great circle distance between two sets
of coordinates. The supplied coordinates could be wrong for Dorset or
Rutland. Do the airline distances to the other locations seem
reasonable?

         I'm not sure how the database determines the coordinates for
a specific zip, I would hope they are for the geographic center of
the zip code but I don't know.

         If anyone is interested in this program contact me off list.

         I have a version of this program that will display the distance from
a given zip code to all the countries and the great distance for any
country in the world.

http://njdxa.org/dx-tools/dxcclist.shtml

         As you might suspect I'm a ham radio operator. :-)

         Joe is your computer still for sale? I've send you a couple 
of email but
one of us may be getting caught in a filter.

Urb 




From jellicle at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 10:09:23 2007
From: jellicle at gmail.com (Michael Sims)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:09:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zip Code Stuff
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070122092056.02906868@e-government.com>
References: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8d9a42800701220434t35b1ff6dn551034c8b3bf1156@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070122092056.02906868@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <200701221009.23895.jellicle@gmail.com>

On Monday 22 January 2007 9:39 am, Urb LeJeune wrote:

> >There are 8 Zip codes withing a 5 miles radius of 05701
> >They are:
> >05251 Dorset, VT 0.85 miles
> >05701 Rutland, VT 0.00 miles
> >05702 Rutland, VT 0.00 miles
> >05736 Center Rutland, VT 2.59 miles
> >05744 Florence, VT 3.57 miles
> >05759 North Clarendon, VT 2.13 miles
> >05765 Proctor, VT 4.57 miles
> >05777 West Rutland, VT 3.57 miles
> >
> >Dorset is a lot more than 0.85 miles.  It's really about 25 street
> > miles.
>
>          The program uses longevity and latitude from a commercial zip
> code database. It calculates the great circle distance between two sets
> of coordinates. The supplied coordinates could be wrong for Dorset or
> Rutland. Do the airline distances to the other locations seem
> reasonable?

You almost certainly want to use the Haversine formula for this task 
(calculating distances to points that are quite close on a sphere).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great-circle_distance

The basic Great Circle formula gives *incorrect* results for points that are 
very close to each other.  I.E., the zip code 05702 is NOT actually on top 
of 05701, and I expect that your database of zip code centroids is fine, 
however, at some point roundoff error is killing you.  That is,

arccos(1) = 0       //true!
arccos(.999999999) = 0   //true for computers, not true for mathematicians

So zip 05702 is too close to zip 05701, and its arccos is getting rounded to 
zero, which makes the distance calculated be zero, which is untrue.

Use one of the other formulas on that Wikipedia page.

Michael Sims



From urb at e-government.com  Mon Jan 22 10:52:06 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:52:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zip Code Stuff
In-Reply-To: <200701221009.23895.jellicle@gmail.com>
References: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8d9a42800701220434t35b1ff6dn551034c8b3bf1156@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070122092056.02906868@e-government.com>
	<200701221009.23895.jellicle@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070122104529.024bc930@e-government.com>

         Thanks for the info, I'll check it out.

Urb


>You almost certainly want to use the Haversine formula for this task
>(calculating distances to points that are quite close on a sphere).
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great-circle_distance
>
>The basic Great Circle formula gives *incorrect* results for points that are
>very close to each other.  I.E., the zip code 05702 is NOT actually on top
>of 05701, and I expect that your database of zip code centroids is fine,
>however, at some point roundoff error is killing you.  That is,
>
>arccos(1) = 0       //true!
>arccos(.999999999) = 0   //true for computers, not true for mathematicians
>
>So zip 05702 is too close to zip 05701, and its arccos is getting rounded to
>zero, which makes the distance calculated be zero, which is untrue.
>
>Use one of the other formulas on that Wikipedia page.






From donnamarievincent at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 12:38:12 2007
From: donnamarievincent at yahoo.com (Donna Marie Vincent)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:38:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 50
Message-ID: <222597.40541.qm@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Partially.  Once I find all the zip codes within an x-mile radius I have to find all records in a db table that match any of those zip codes.

>Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:14:51 -0500
>From: Urb LeJeune <urb at e-government.com>
>Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
>To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070122011412.00ec29b8 at e-government.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>>  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>>Thanks in advance!
>
>`       Is this what you're looking to do?
>
>http://phpphanatic.com/zipcodes
>
>Urb







From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Jan 22 13:49:10 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:49:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Intellectual Monday
Message-ID: <000801c73e56$012e2760$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

I have been digging into JavaScript and jQuery, and am intrigued by
several concepts.
 
1. jQuery uses chaining, whereby every method within jQuery returns the
query object itself.
 
2. JavaScript's prototype method is an interesting concept for adding
methods to existing classes.
 
I wonder how these techniques work in the PHP world. Does anyone use
chaining effectively? Is there a PHP equivalent to the prototype
concept?
 
Cliff
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070122/e27cdc1e/attachment.html>

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 14:10:17 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:10:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Intellectual Monday
In-Reply-To: <000801c73e56$012e2760$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <000801c73e56$012e2760$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <b76252690701221110k5822fd15tf8421a573e469a0@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/22/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:

> I wonder how these techniques work in the PHP world. Does anyone use
> chaining effectively? Is there a PHP equivalent to the prototype concept?

Javascript is an beautiful, powerful language. I never thought I would
say that, and I think Netscape could have done so much more "back in
the day" to produce good documentation and examples. That's what
Prototype, MochiKit, jQuery, et al are finally doing.

Anyway, PHP's object support doesn't really compare. Classes are not
the same as prototypes. And not everything in PHP is an object,
therefore chaining is a kludge at best.

>From the point of view of readability and maintainability, I hope
developers *aren't* trying to replicate Javascript patterns in PHP...

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Mon Jan 22 15:37:51 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:37:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Intellectual Monday
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701221110k5822fd15tf8421a573e469a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000801c73e56$012e2760$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<b76252690701221110k5822fd15tf8421a573e469a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45B5209F.1070505@beaffinitive.com>

A lot of the methods in the Zend Framework classes use object chaining.  
It requires PHP5.  In terms of the prototype concept... javascript 
doesn't have a traditional object implementation -- you can't say "class 
A extends class B" -- and the lines are pretty blurred between what a 
function is and what an object is, so that why you kind of have to hack 
it via the prototype object to achieve some sense of object-oriented 
javascript. 

Here's the idea of object chaining in php:
class SomeClass
{
  function doSomething()
  {
    echo "Something\n";
    return $this;
  }
  function getOther()
  {
    if (!isset($this->other))
    {
       $this->other = new OtherClass();
    }
     return $this->other;
  }
}
class OtherClass
{
  function doSomethingElse()
  {
    echo "Something Else\n";
    return $this;
  }
}
$foo = new SomeClass();
$foo->doSomething()->getOther()->doSomethingElse();

-Rob

csnyder wrote:
> On 1/22/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder how these techniques work in the PHP world. Does anyone use
>> chaining effectively? Is there a PHP equivalent to the prototype 
>> concept?
>
> Javascript is an beautiful, powerful language. I never thought I would
> say that, and I think Netscape could have done so much more "back in
> the day" to produce good documentation and examples. That's what
> Prototype, MochiKit, jQuery, et al are finally doing.
>
> Anyway, PHP's object support doesn't really compare. Classes are not
> the same as prototypes. And not everything in PHP is an object,
> therefore chaining is a kludge at best.
>
>> From the point of view of readability and maintainability, I hope
> developers *aren't* trying to replicate Javascript patterns in PHP...
>


From urb at e-government.com  Mon Jan 22 16:57:47 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:57:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 50
In-Reply-To: <222597.40541.qm@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <222597.40541.qm@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070122164337.023f1148@e-government.com>


>Partially.  Once I find all the zip codes within an x-mile radius I 
>have to find all records in a db table that match any of those zip codes.

Load an array of zip codes within an x-mail radius, Let's assume 
$ZipArray. Next.

$Subselect = "(" . implode('",",$ZipArray)  , '")';

Let's additionally assume you have table "Members" with a field ZipCode

Then  do

$Select = "SELECT * FROM Members WHERE ZipCode IN $Subselect";

which would expand to something like:

SELECT * FROM Members WHERE ZipCode IN ("08087","08088","08089")

Urb




From jbaer at VillageVoice.com  Mon Jan 22 17:15:24 2007
From: jbaer at VillageVoice.com (Baer, Jon)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:15:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Intellectual Monday
In-Reply-To: <000801c73e56$012e2760$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA245040E8137@mail>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I must say that both techniques *can* lead to hell when debugging.

The idea of adding new methods ontop of existing classes is usually not
safe if not documented well.  The one thing I liked about the
verbose-ness of Java is the fact that I always knew what I was getting
back (and so did the next function I was calling).  

In PHP I think runkit (http://php.net/manual/en/ref.runkit.php) is the
closest resembling these type of functions.  I could be wrong.

- - Jon

- -----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Cliff Hirsch
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:49 PM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Intellectual Monday

I have been digging into JavaScript and jQuery, and am intrigued by
several concepts.
 
1. jQuery uses chaining, whereby every method within jQuery returns the
query object itself.
 
2. JavaScript's prototype method is an interesting concept for adding
methods to existing classes.
 
I wonder how these techniques work in the PHP world. Does anyone use
chaining effectively? Is there a PHP equivalent to the prototype
concept?
 
Cliff
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFFtTd899e5DI8C/rsRAr7iAJoCLd8vFe+6BelimHh9qAyeaXJOLwCgrO0H
aKBO5dRU1neQgkNXqnwWB1M=
=Tm7u
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From billy.reisinger at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 20:45:32 2007
From: billy.reisinger at gmail.com (Billy Reisinger)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:45:32 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Intellectual Monday
In-Reply-To: <000801c73e56$012e2760$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <000801c73e56$012e2760$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <5466ECE2-6CA9-4F76-AB53-5AD1CAE2A33B@gmail.com>

I got nothing on chaining, but I have some opinions about the  
prototype concept.
The prototyping concept in general is similar to using a static  
member in Java.  A function prototype in JavaScript is a member that  
is common to all instances of that function (read: class).  If one  
instance decides to change that prototype, all instances of that  
function immediately inherit that change.   Additionally, the  
prototype resides in a single spot in physical memory (supposedly),  
such that every new copy of a function uses the same set of  
prototypes.  I'm not a PHP expert, but I imagine there is a similar  
concept in PHP....
One of the problems I've run into with javascript in a production  
environment is that it actually allows you to extend native objects,  
which themselves are just functions.   Extending native objects (i.e.  
Function, Object, Array, Element, etc.) can lead to unexpected errors  
when your code interacts with an outside environment.  Just to give  
you an example, extending the Array class with custom methods leads  
to these methods appearing as entries for every array in foreach  
loops.  Probably not what you wanted.
AFAIK, PHP doesn't allow you to extend native objects like JavaScript  
does.  Probably a good thing, anyway.

On Jan 22, 2007, at 12:49 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:

> I have been digging into JavaScript and jQuery, and am intrigued by  
> several concepts.
>
>
>
> 1. jQuery uses chaining, whereby every method within jQuery returns  
> the query object itself.
>
>
>
> 2. JavaScript's prototype method is an interesting concept for  
> adding methods to existing classes.
>
>
>
> I wonder how these techniques work in the PHP world. Does anyone  
> use chaining effectively? Is there a PHP equivalent to the  
> prototype concept?
>
>
>
> Cliff
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070122/24a1a68c/attachment.html>

From cliff at pinestream.com  Tue Jan 23 09:22:51 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:22:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Intellectual Monday
In-Reply-To: <45B5209F.1070505@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <001701c73ef9$f732aa20$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

That's pretty cool. Maddening to read, but very powerful.

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Rob Marscher
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 3:38 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Intellectual Monday

A lot of the methods in the Zend Framework classes use object chaining.

It requires PHP5.  In terms of the prototype concept... javascript 
doesn't have a traditional object implementation -- you can't say "class

A extends class B" -- and the lines are pretty blurred between what a 
function is and what an object is, so that why you kind of have to hack 
it via the prototype object to achieve some sense of object-oriented 
javascript. 

Here's the idea of object chaining in php:
class SomeClass
{
  function doSomething()
  {
    echo "Something\n";
    return $this;
  }
  function getOther()
  {
    if (!isset($this->other))
    {
       $this->other = new OtherClass();
    }
     return $this->other;
  }
}
class OtherClass
{
  function doSomethingElse()
  {
    echo "Something Else\n";
    return $this;
  }
}
$foo = new SomeClass();
$foo->doSomething()->getOther()->doSomethingElse();

-Rob

csnyder wrote:
> On 1/22/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder how these techniques work in the PHP world. Does anyone use
>> chaining effectively? Is there a PHP equivalent to the prototype 
>> concept?
>
> Javascript is an beautiful, powerful language. I never thought I would
> say that, and I think Netscape could have done so much more "back in
> the day" to produce good documentation and examples. That's what
> Prototype, MochiKit, jQuery, et al are finally doing.
>
> Anyway, PHP's object support doesn't really compare. Classes are not
> the same as prototypes. And not everything in PHP is an object,
> therefore chaining is a kludge at best.
>
>> From the point of view of readability and maintainability, I hope
> developers *aren't* trying to replicate Javascript patterns in PHP...
>
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 23 09:50:24 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:50:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Intellectual Monday
In-Reply-To: <5466ECE2-6CA9-4F76-AB53-5AD1CAE2A33B@gmail.com>
References: <000801c73e56$012e2760$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<5466ECE2-6CA9-4F76-AB53-5AD1CAE2A33B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701230650v147db6f9oa7ce90bfc7d5b52a@mail.gmail.com>

The yahoo UIL thigs are mind blowing.

Check out the videos, it's 10,000 lines of JS code. I'm starting to
fade out a bit from the PHP world - after MANY years, this new JS
stuff is just too tempting to play with.

http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/

:-)  ed

On 1/22/07, Billy Reisinger <billy.reisinger at gmail.com> wrote:
> I got nothing on chaining, but I have some opinions about the prototype
> concept.
> The prototyping concept in general is similar to using a static member in
> Java.  A function prototype in JavaScript is a member that is common to all
> instances of that function (read: class).  If one instance decides to change
> that prototype, all instances of that function immediately inherit that
> change.   Additionally, the prototype resides in a single spot in physical
> memory (supposedly), such that every new copy of a function uses the same
> set of prototypes.  I'm not a PHP expert, but I imagine there is a similar
> concept in PHP....
> One of the problems I've run into with javascript in a production
> environment is that it actually allows you to extend native objects, which
> themselves are just functions.   Extending native objects (i.e. Function,
> Object, Array, Element, etc.) can lead to unexpected errors when your code
> interacts with an outside environment.  Just to give you an example,
> extending the Array class with custom methods leads to these methods
> appearing as entries for every array in foreach loops.  Probably not what
> you wanted.
> AFAIK, PHP doesn't allow you to extend native objects like JavaScript does.
> Probably a good thing, anyway.
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2007, at 12:49 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been digging into JavaScript and jQuery, and am intrigued by several
> concepts.
>
>
>
> 1. jQuery uses chaining, whereby every method within jQuery returns the
> query object itself.
>
>
>
> 2. JavaScript's prototype method is an interesting concept for adding
> methods to existing classes.
>
>
>
> I wonder how these techniques work in the PHP world. Does anyone use
> chaining effectively? Is there a PHP equivalent to the prototype concept?
>
>
>
> Cliff
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From sjmci at optonline.net  Tue Jan 23 09:54:53 2007
From: sjmci at optonline.net (Steve Solomon)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:54:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <45B31538.3040304@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c73efe$7308f290$6601a8c0@T1400>

In the real world most of these applications involve finding locations
(i.e., "stores") closest to a given zip code (or city and state which is
then translated to a zip code).  The standard solutions are not very
efficient here because they are redoing calculations that only have to
be done once.  That is, for every zip code, the distances to the closest
locations is static and changes only when there are new locations or
locations cease to exist.

A more efficient algorithm is to generate offline a table which looks
something like 

Zip,Location#1,Distance1,Location#2,Distance2...

Up to the maximum no. of locations that you would ever want to display
(typically 5-25).  Of course this is time consuming since it has to be
done for all the 40,000+ zip codes, but it only has to be done
completely once.  When locations change only the records in the file
that are affected must be changed.

Once this table has been generated finding the closest locations is a
simple one record read.  The location details are then displayed by
reading the location information from a 'location' file for each one
found.


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/648 - Release Date:
1/23/2007 11:04 AM
 



From nate at cakephp.org  Tue Jan 23 12:40:08 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:40:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re:Intellectual Monday
In-Reply-To: <20070123014043.534F210A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070123014043.534F210A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <915D3A6B-9FBD-40D7-95E6-6000DF45BAB6@cakephp.org>

We just implemented this thing in Cake where you can effectively add  
one object to another, such that all the public methods of the first  
object are available in the second.  It uses magic methods, and it's  
kind of a hack (and you can't overload methods in the base class or  
anything), but it works on PHP4 and 5.

- Nate


From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Tue Jan 23 21:19:45 2007
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:19:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1363003649.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 03:44 PM 1/19/2007, Donna Marie Vincent wrote:
>Hi, all.  I am looking for a script, or a tutorial on how to create 
>a script, that will perform a radial zip code search.  I Googled 
>this "radial zip code" and "radial postcode" and have found nothing 
>about how to do this.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>Thanks in advance!

This is a little late into the discussion, but this web site 
<http://www.micahcarrick.com/v2/content/view/4/22/> was mentioned on 
another PHP forum as a zipcode class. It might help you. I have not tried it.

Ken



From codebowl at gmail.com  Tue Jan 23 22:36:23 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:36:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Amazing artist on YouTube
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701231936y539d6efdw7ab3db7e7c6c5f28@mail.gmail.com>

Guys I know this is off topic but take a look at this ;)
I sent in a video and they did the sketch.

http://www.josephcrawford.com/2007/01/23/anwen87-is-an-amazing-artist-on-youtube/

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jan 23 23:28:19 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:28:19 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Amazing artist on YouTube
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701231936y539d6efdw7ab3db7e7c6c5f28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800701231936y539d6efdw7ab3db7e7c6c5f28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8263-69479@sneakemail.com>

Joseph Crawford codebowl-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> Guys I know this is off topic but take a look at this ;)
> I sent in a video and they did the sketch.
>
> http://www.josephcrawford.com/2007/01/23/anwen87-is-an-amazing-artist-on-youtube/ 
>
>
Very clever marketing. I bet a character artist would do even better.  
Let me know how much she gets you for, and I'll write up a case study in 
clever marketing for the YouTube generation.

-=john andrews

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From codebowl at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 01:53:34 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 01:53:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Amazing artist on YouTube
In-Reply-To: <8263-69479@sneakemail.com>
References: <8d9a42800701231936y539d6efdw7ab3db7e7c6c5f28@mail.gmail.com>
	<8263-69479@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701232253r6d050f2xd311f6c5da5768f6@mail.gmail.com>

afer talking with her all i have to pay is postage :)

On 1/23/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> Joseph Crawford codebowl-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
>
> > Guys I know this is off topic but take a look at this ;)
> > I sent in a video and they did the sketch.
> >
> > http://www.josephcrawford.com/2007/01/23/anwen87-is-an-amazing-artist-on-youtube/
> >
> >
> Very clever marketing. I bet a character artist would do even better.
> Let me know how much she gets you for, and I'll write up a case study in
> clever marketing for the YouTube generation.
>
> -=john andrews
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From paul at gubavision.com  Wed Jan 24 06:44:34 2007
From: paul at gubavision.com (Paul)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:44:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Radial Zip Code Search
In-Reply-To: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20070119204457.68797.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7B1BC1FD-349B-4D50-8B51-439A46C67E60@gubavision.com>

I have used this and got it working with some help from members of  
this list.  Works fine for me.  Also has the database of all the zip  
codes.

Paul Guba

On Jan 23, 2007, at 9:19 PM, Ken Robinson wrote:

> At 03:44 PM 1/19/2007, Donna Marie Vincent wrote:
>> Hi, all.  I am looking for a script, or a tutorial on how to  
>> create a script, that will perform a radial zip code search.  I  
>> Googled this "radial zip code" and "radial postcode" and have  
>> found nothing about how to do this.  Can anyone point me in the  
>> right direction?
>> Thanks in advance!
>
> This is a little late into the discussion, but this web site  
> <http://www.micahcarrick.com/v2/content/view/4/22/> was mentioned  
> on another PHP forum as a zipcode class. It might help you. I have  
> not tried it.
>
> Ken
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From ken at secdat.com  Wed Jan 24 08:01:37 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:01:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
Message-ID: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>

That was a nice presentation last night by Chuck. 

One thing that struck me was that term for ORM, the "Viet Nam of 
programming", I am definitely one of those who will go so far as to call 
it that.  My own analogy before hearing this one was "heroin for 
programmers", they get hooked on it and start dreaming big dreams and 
nothing gets done. 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070124/61d81256/attachment.vcf>

From support at dailytechnology.net  Wed Jan 24 08:55:42 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:55:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Word Doc to PDF?
Message-ID: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net>

Does anyone have any experience or information on converting a simple 
Word document to a PDF? I've seen a few utilities that do this, but all 
of them are Word doc to printer to PDF hacks, and most are dependent 
upon an installation of Word or Open Office. There's got to be an easier 
way.

Thanks,
- Brian


From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 09:09:55 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:09:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Word Doc to PDF?
In-Reply-To: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net>
References: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0701240609u3fde71dej6ec55b1d82bc4239@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/24/07, Brian Dailey <support at dailytechnology.net> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any experience or information on converting a simple
> Word document to a PDF? I've seen a few utilities that do this, but all
> of them are Word doc to printer to PDF hacks, and most are dependent
> upon an installation of Word or Open Office. There's got to be an easier
> way.
>
> Thanks,
> - Brian
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070124/7b8f6f33/attachment.html>

From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 09:12:16 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:12:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Word Doc to PDF?
In-Reply-To: <b05cec1c0701240609u3fde71dej6ec55b1d82bc4239@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net>
	<b05cec1c0701240609u3fde71dej6ec55b1d82bc4239@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0701240612t402077dbl592eb577e4df65f3@mail.gmail.com>

um, i was going to say Open Office, but nvm.

http://www.zamzar.com/ < - that seemed to work, when i had pdfs to view at
school.

On 1/24/07, Nazmul Hassan <xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/24/07, Brian Dailey <support at dailytechnology.net> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience or information on converting a simple
> > Word document to a PDF? I've seen a few utilities that do this, but all
> > of them are Word doc to printer to PDF hacks, and most are dependent
> > upon an installation of Word or Open Office. There's got to be an easier
> > way.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > - Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
>
> --
> (?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)




-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070124/9cc25e67/attachment.html>

From ramons at gmx.net  Wed Jan 24 09:27:39 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:27:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Word Doc to PDF?
In-Reply-To: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net>
References: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <45B76CDB.5070703@gmx.net>

Brian Dailey wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience or information on converting a simple 
> Word document to a PDF? I've seen a few utilities that do this, but all 
> of them are Word doc to printer to PDF hacks, and most are dependent 
> upon an installation of Word or Open Office. There's got to be an easier 
> way.
> 
> Thanks,
> - Brian


I used pdfonline.com before with great success. You upload the .doc and 
they mail you the pdf a few minutes later. And it's free. :)

David


From ps at sun-code.com  Wed Jan 24 09:54:27 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:54:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Word Doc to PDF?
In-Reply-To: <45B76CDB.5070703@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <000e01c73fc7$91f4a680$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

Just for reference Adobe offers these sorts of online services too:

Create PDFs online by uploading files to Adobe (not free, but
affordable): http://createpdf.adobe.com/

Convert PDF to text or HTML (free):
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html

A biz that does this a lot might be willing to pay the fee. 


Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com





-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of David Krings
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:28 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Word Doc to PDF?


Brian Dailey wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience or information on converting a simple 
> Word document to a PDF? I've seen a few utilities that do this, but
all 
> of them are Word doc to printer to PDF hacks, and most are dependent 
> upon an installation of Word or Open Office. There's got to be an
easier 
> way.
> 
> Thanks,
> - Brian


I used pdfonline.com before with great success. You upload the .doc and 
they mail you the pdf a few minutes later. And it's free. :)

David
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Jan 24 11:20:02 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:20:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <45B78732.80800@cyberxdesigns.com>

ORM is a beautiful thing.  We are using ORM extensively on a large 
financial application and it works absolute wonders.  It has made many 
non trivial tasks, especially those that involving very complex objects 
that span many tables, very manageable.   I was not a believer at first, 
I thought it was complex and unpredictable.  I wasn't sure what I was 
going to get back from it at any given time.  However, with refinement 
and practice our ORM system is very predictable and saves tons of time.  
It can be done, it just takes time to develop.  I have a debut of 
gratitude to Andrew Yochum and Chris Hendry.  They did a fantastic job 
implementing it.

Hans
http://www.cyberxdesigns.com

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> That was a nice presentation last night by Chuck.
> One thing that struck me was that term for ORM, the "Viet Nam of 
> programming", I am definitely one of those who will go so far as to 
> call it that.  My own analogy before hearing this one was "heroin for 
> programmers", they get hooked on it and start dreaming big dreams and 
> nothing gets done.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 13:58:12 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Finding Horde libraries
Message-ID: <b76252690701241058u633af02ap58bb7939d8153a82@mail.gmail.com>

In Chuck's excellent talk last night he alluded to the possibility of
re-using Horde library code outside of the framework itself.

Anybody have any idea how to track down a list of the "60 or so"
PEAR-style libraries he mentioned?

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From lk613m at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 14:10:57 2007
From: lk613m at yahoo.com (LK)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:10:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
Message-ID: <23072.6325.qm@web53307.mail.yahoo.com>

Unfortunately I missed that meeting. A search on SourceForge revealed only two non-empty ORM tools for PHP: phpDBObject and Doctrine. Can anyone recommend one of them or an equivalent commercial package?

Thanks.

Leo




----- Original Message ----
From: Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:01:37 AM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming


That was a nice presentation last night by Chuck. 

One thing that struck me was that term for ORM, the "Viet Nam of 
programming", I am definitely one of those who will go so far as to call 
it that.  My own analogy before hearing this one was "heroin for 
programmers", they get hooked on it and start dreaming big dreams and 
nothing gets done.
begin:vcard
fn:Kenneth  Downs
n:Downs;Kenneth 
adr;dom:;;347 Main Street;East Setauket;NY;11733
email;internet:ken at secdat.com
tel;work:631-689-7200
tel;fax:631-689-0527
tel;cell:631-379-0010
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.secdat.com
version:2.1
end:vcard
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070124/5800552d/attachment.html>

From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Wed Jan 24 14:15:17 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:15:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <23072.6325.qm@web53307.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <23072.6325.qm@web53307.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <491198290701241115i65151e6fge7005451e180b90b@mail.gmail.com>

Propel - http://propel.phpdb.org/trac/

On 1/24/07, LK <lk613m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately I missed that meeting. A search on SourceForge revealed only
> two non-empty ORM tools for PHP: phpDBObject and Doctrine. Can anyone
> recommend one of them or an equivalent commercial package?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Leo
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com>
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:01:37 AM
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
>
> That was a nice presentation last night by Chuck.
>
> One thing that struck me was that term for ORM, the "Viet Nam of
> programming", I am definitely one of those who will go so far as to call
> it that.  My own analogy before hearing this one was "heroin for
> programmers", they get hooked on it and start dreaming big dreams and
> nothing gets done.
> begin:vcard
> fn:Kenneth  Downs
> n:Downs;Kenneth
> adr;dom:;;347 Main Street;East Setauket;NY;11733
> email;internet:ken at secdat.com
> tel;work:631-689-7200
> tel;fax:631-689-0527
> tel;cell:631-379-0010
> x-mozilla-html:FALSE
> url:http://www.secdat.com
> version:2.1
> end:vcard
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> ------------------------------
>  Get your own web address.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL>
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070124/fd89a820/attachment.html>

From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Jan 24 14:39:42 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:39:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c1dd624b2403@[192.168.1.102]>

At 8:01 AM -0500 1/24/07, Kenneth Downs wrote:
>That was a nice presentation last night by Chuck.
>One thing that struck me was that term for ORM, the "Viet Nam of 
>programming", I am definitely one of those who will go so far as to 
>call it that.  My own analogy before hearing this one was "heroin 
>for programmers", they get hooked on it and start dreaming big 
>dreams and nothing gets done.

Interesting characterization -- Obviously, it's not Vietnam, but 
instead those who served in Vietnam that are the object of that 
characterization.  Are Vietnam Vets commonly thought of as "getting 
hooked on it and start dreaming big dreams and nothing gets done"? 
Just wondering why Vietnam Vets are thought of in such terms.

Hopefully not, but perhaps 30 years from now Iraqi Vets will be the 
blunt of such negative comments by younger and obviously naive 
civilians. Sad state of affairs I think.


tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From jbaer at VillageVoice.com  Wed Jan 24 14:43:54 2007
From: jbaer at VillageVoice.com (Baer, Jon)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:43:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <491198290701241115i65151e6fge7005451e180b90b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA2450424737F@mail>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Propel is a very awesome PHP5-only library ...

But if you want ease of ORM I'd still go w/ Cake ...

http://cakebaker.42dh.com/2007/01/23/sugar-icing-on-the-cake/

I also missed the meeting but was this mentioned? ->
http://www.phpobjectgenerator.com/

- - Jon 

- -----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Withington
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:15 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming

Propel - http://propel.phpdb.org/trac/


On 1/24/07, LK <lk613m at yahoo.com > wrote:

	Unfortunately I missed that meeting. A search on SourceForge
revealed only two non-empty ORM tools for PHP: phpDBObject and Doctrine.
Can anyone recommend one of them or an equivalent commercial package? 
	 
	Thanks.
	 
	Leo
	 


	 
	----- Original Message ----
	From: Kenneth Downs < ken at secdat.com <mailto:ken at secdat.com> >
	To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
	Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:01:37 AM 
	Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of
programming
	
	
	That was a nice presentation last night by Chuck. 
	
	One thing that struck me was that term for ORM, the "Viet Nam of

	programming", I am definitely one of those who will go so far as
to call 
	it that.  My own analogy before hearing this one was "heroin for

	programmers", they get hooked on it and start dreaming big
dreams and 
	nothing gets done.
	begin:vcard
	fn:Kenneth  Downs
	n:Downs;Kenneth 
	adr;dom:;;347 Main Street;East Setauket;NY;11733
	email;internet: ken at secdat.com <mailto:ken at secdat.com> 
	tel;work:631-689-7200
	tel;fax:631-689-0527
	tel;cell:631-379-0010
	x-mozilla-html:FALSE
	url: http://www.secdat.com <http://www.secdat.com/> 
	version:2.1
	end:vcard
	
	_______________________________________________
	New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
	http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
<http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk> 
	
	NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
	http://www.nyphpcon.com <http://www.nyphpcon.com/> 
	
	Show Your Participation in New York PHP
	http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php 
	

	
	
________________________________

	Get your own web address.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domain
s/?p=BESTDEAL> 
	Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
	
	_______________________________________________
	New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
	http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
<http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk> 
	
	NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
	http://www.nyphpcon.com 
	
	Show Your Participation in New York PHP
	http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php 
	
	




- --
Mark

- --------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFFt7b699e5DI8C/rsRAuHYAJ4wInwigOUtH5Zmvv5JLbUy9xvd6gCgrnMy
PetKgJQxP45ENdUnW3uwAFs=
=Jh4O
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Wed Jan 24 14:50:00 2007
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:50:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c1dd624b2403@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
	<p06240801c1dd624b2403@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701241447510.38688@emra.pair.com>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, tedd wrote:

> Interesting characterization -- Obviously, it's not Vietnam, but
> instead those who served in Vietnam that are the object of that
> characterization.  Are Vietnam Vets commonly thought of as "getting
> hooked on it and start dreaming big dreams and nothing gets done"?
> Just wondering why Vietnam Vets are thought of in such terms.

tedd, I think if you re-read carefully you will see that

> At 8:01 AM -0500 1/24/07, Kenneth Downs wrote:
>
> [...]My own analogy before hearing this one was "heroin
> >for programmers", they get hooked on it and start dreaming big
> >dreams and nothing gets done.

and there is no offense or disrespect in there at all.



---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede
siempre expeditivamente, como si el principio universal
de m?xima eficiencia hubiera aconsejado la supresi?n de
gradaciones intermedias.

  -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan




From ken at secdat.com  Wed Jan 24 15:42:58 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:42:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c1dd624b2403@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
	<p06240801c1dd624b2403@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <45B7C4D2.8030107@secdat.com>

tedd wrote:
> Interesting characterization -- Obviously, it's not Vietnam, but 
> instead those who served in Vietnam that are the object of that 
> characterization.  Are Vietnam Vets commonly thought of as "getting 
> hooked on it and start dreaming big dreams and nothing gets done"? 
> Just wondering why Vietnam Vets are thought of in such terms.

No, actually the characterization is generally understood to be aimed at 
the politicians and policy makers who got into an "unwinnable" 
situation.   The analogy to ORM is that it is a strategy that cannot 
achieve its goals because of some fundamental mis-understanding of the 
reality of the situation.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070124/88070e8b/attachment.vcf>

From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Jan 24 15:43:43 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:43:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0701241447510.38688@emra.pair.com>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
	<p06240801c1dd624b2403@[192.168.1.102]>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0701241447510.38688@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <p06240804c1dd6ae22749@[192.168.1.102]>

At 2:50 PM -0500 1/24/07, David Mintz wrote:
>tedd, I think if you re-read carefully you will see that
>-snip-
>and there is no offense or disrespect in there at all.

Come on, while it my not be intentional or fully thought-out, the 
disrespect is obvious for Gods' sake! Pardon my language, but we had 
a saying in the Army that went "Don't piss on my back and tell me 
it's raining."

Let's review:

At 8:01 AM -0500 1/24/07, Kenneth Downs wrote:
>That was a nice presentation last night by Chuck.
>One thing that struck me was that term for ORM, the "Viet Nam of 
>programming", I am definitely one of those who will go so far as to 
>call it that.  My own analogy before hearing this one was "heroin 
>for programmers", they get hooked on it and start dreaming big 
>dreams and nothing gets done.

a = "Viet Nam of programming"
b = "heroin for programmers", they get hooked on it and start 
dreaming big dreams and nothing gets done"

a replaced b -- does the above mean something different?

As for the Vietnam reference re ORM:

Now, if the term "Viet Nam of programming" in terms for ORM meant 
that ORM was under appreciated and often unfairly ridiculed -- then I 
would agree;

If the term meant that we should never try ORM because it's a bad 
thing to get involved with-- then I would also agree;

But if the characterization using the term Vietnam is that once you 
try ORM you'll get hooked on it, zone out and accomplish nothing, 
then I think that's a cruel characterization of veterans (in this 
case Vietnam ) who returned with physical and/or physiological 
problems that kept them from becoming productive members of society.

By your anti-bush war crimes web site, it's obvious that your mileage 
varies from mine. But, you should at least ask yourself why anyone 
would use the term Vietnam to describe anything? Why pick on the Vet 
at all?

There are lot's ways to express yourself without offending and if you 
think you aren't offending and someone disagrees, then maybe you 
should look a bit deeper.

tedd

PS: Very cute daughter.

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From rsd at electronink.com  Wed Jan 24 15:45:29 2007
From: rsd at electronink.com (Russ Demarest)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:45:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Word Doc to PDF?
In-Reply-To: <45B76CDB.5070703@gmx.net>
References: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net> <45B76CDB.5070703@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <45B7C569.9040800@electronink.com>

Since nobody pointed this out yet, OS X prints to PDF from any application.

Russ

David Krings wrote:
> Brian Dailey wrote:
>> Does anyone have any experience or information on converting a simple 
>> Word document to a PDF? I've seen a few utilities that do this, but 
>> all of them are Word doc to printer to PDF hacks, and most are 
>> dependent upon an installation of Word or Open Office. There's got to 
>> be an easier way.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> - Brian
>
>
> I used pdfonline.com before with great success. You upload the .doc 
> and they mail you the pdf a few minutes later. And it's free. :)
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From chuck at horde.org  Wed Jan 24 17:20:44 2007
From: chuck at horde.org (Chuck Hagenbuch)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:20:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c1dd6ae22749@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
	<p06240801c1dd624b2403@[192.168.1.102]>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0701241447510.38688@emra.pair.com>
	<p06240804c1dd6ae22749@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <20070124172044.zq61zaozgg8woc84@technest.org>

This is, as far as I am aware, the originator of the term and his  
exposition on it:

http://blogs.tedneward.com/2006/06/26/The+Vietnam+Of+Computer+Science.aspx

I hope that clears up at least somewhat the context in which the term  
was mentioned during the talk.

-chuck

-- 
"we are plastered to the windshield of the bus that is time." - Chris


From chuck at horde.org  Wed Jan 24 18:20:09 2007
From: chuck at horde.org (Chuck Hagenbuch)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:20:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Finding Horde libraries
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701241058u633af02ap58bb7939d8153a82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b76252690701241058u633af02ap58bb7939d8153a82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070124182009.q275e1tlpw840w04@technest.org>

Quoting csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com>:

> In Chuck's excellent talk last night he alluded to the possibility of
> re-using Horde library code outside of the framework itself.
>
> Anybody have any idea how to track down a list of the "60 or so"
> PEAR-style libraries he mentioned?

There are a couple of different ways. For the most up-to-date code,  
you'll want to check out the "framework" module  
(http://cvs.horde.org/framework/) from CVS (see  
http://horde.org/source/). You'll then have a set of directories, each  
of which includes a package.xml file; typing:

pear install Compress/package.xml

(for an example of our Horde_Compress package) will install that  
package locally.

There's also a script included in the devtools package called  
horde-fw-symlinks.php that will run through a framework/ directory and  
create symlinks in an include directory (by default one called libs/  
on the same level as framework/, but it can be anything you like). The  
idea is that for development or easy CVS updates, you put the  
symlinked directory in your include_path; any changes to the real  
files are then reflected instantly except of course for new files or  
directories; then you just re-run the script.

(The symlinks are necessary because the framework/ directory is laid  
out like the PEAR repository; files need to be shuffled around a  
little so that they appear as expected in the include_path).

Finally, you can poke around on http://pear.horde.org/. Going to:

http://pear.horde.org/index.php?category=framework

... will get you a list of all packages available from our channel  
(currently, in fact 62). I list this option last because our Horde  
releases currently rely on bundling framework as a whole; therefore,  
although libraries are available and do work independently, we don't  
yet have a release process that updates the pear.horde.org packages  
regularly. Help doing so, if anyone is interested, would be quite  
welcome.

There is also a writeup here: http://wiki.horde.org/Doc/Dev/Framework  
that has some more details. Feedback on what should be added there, or  
clarifications to the wiki page, are welcome (I know it currently  
lacks mention of horde-fw-symlinks and the pear server; I may have  
changed that before you read it though :).

-chuck

-- 
"we are plastered to the windshield of the bus that is time." - Chris


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 24 18:59:39 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:59:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
Message-ID: <20070124235939.M71829@pinestream.com>

I just made the jump from Windows to MAC and am looking for software
suggestion. Perhaps a suggested software list for the group would be useful.
My questions for a MAC development environment:

1. Use OSX Apache or install new one?
2. Any gotchas with MySQL?
3. I love php/Smarty/MySQL/PEAR chm files of Windows. MAC equivalent?
4. Subversion client suggestions?

I'll probably discover a zillion other programs that I use, but that's a start.

Oh yeah, I need PHP! Suggestions for a compiled MAC PHP binary? Any equivalent
of xampp for the MAC world?

Any other useful MAC software to make a great MAC development platform?

Cliff

--
Pinestream Communications, Inc.
Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825, www.pinestream.com


From paul at devonianfarm.com  Wed Jan 24 20:26:42 2007
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul Houle)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:26:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <45B78732.80800@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com> <45B78732.80800@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45B80752.9020504@devonianfarm.com>

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
> ORM is a beautiful thing.  We are using ORM extensively on a large 
> financial application and it works absolute wonders.  It has made many 
> non trivial tasks, especially those that involving very complex 
> objects that span many tables, very manageable.   I was not a believer 
> at first, I thought it was complex and unpredictable.  I wasn't sure 
> what I was going to get back from it at any given time.  However, with 
> refinement and practice our ORM system is very predictable and saves 
> tons of time.  It can be done, it just takes time to develop.  I have 
> a debut of gratitude to Andrew Yochum and Chris Hendry.  They did a 
> fantastic job implementing it.
>
    Is this a system you've built in-house?

    I've certainly seen places where ORM was as much of a problem as it 
was a solution.  On the other hand,  I've done more than my share of 
maintainance on applications where sql code is distributed throughout 
the application,  and (worse) applications where people developed a 
database layer which encapsulated bad practices and bad assumptions 
about the problem domain.

    One basic trouble with ORM is that it violates the principle of 
"don't repeat yourself;"  you have to maintain a database schema ~and~ 
an object hiearchy.  Change one,  and you have to change the other.  
Another problem is that there is a semantic mismatch between objects and 
sql -- there are three ways to represent inheritance relations in sql,  
and all three are unsatisfactory in some way.

    I've been working lately with a minimalist "active record" that 
introspects the database,  and lets you write something like

$table=$db->{my_table}
$row=$table->fetch($id);
$row->{count_value}=77;
$row->update();

    it saves a lot of fumbling with 'addslashes' or '?' parameters,  
thus eliminating a common kind of repetitive coding.  It doesn't try to 
map database 'rows' to anything else,  but it can still automate certain 
aspects,  such as timestamping changes to rows,  and keeping an archive 
of who changed what when.  I've been trying to develop something that 
does 20% of the work and eliminates 80% of the pain of writing "plain 
old" applications with lots of SQL.  So far the system is 
zero-configuration,  although I'm sure I'll add features to it someday 
that require some configuration -- for instance,  I do see an easy way 
to implement a certain kind of inheritance.

    ORM systems do get interesting,  however,  in architectures that 
really take advantage of the objects.  For instance,  if you can design 
your objects so that aspects cut across them,  you can build really 
powerful systems quick.





From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Jan 24 21:15:20 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:15:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <45B80752.9020504@devonianfarm.com>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com> <45B78732.80800@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<45B80752.9020504@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <45B812B8.3070701@cyberxdesigns.com>

I believe this is where I will make a fool of myself, but I will give it 
a shot anyway.

1. Yes, we scratch built the system in house.
2. Your correct, if we make a change to the schema of the database we 
have to represent that change in data model.  If we remove something 
from the database and don't reflect that change in the data model the 
system complains.  However, this seems like a very small price to pay.  
The data model is the representation of all the objects in the system.  
If I want to know what is in an object, I go to the data model and check 
its relationships and attributes.  The methods for each object are not 
in data model, they are defined in the
3. Our system is not zero configuration.  If you want access to 
something in the db you have to put it in the data model.  We also have 
to configure all our db brokers. 

In our system all we have to do is load the parent  object:

$Hans = new Person();
$Hans->SetId($PersonID);
$Hans->Populate();

I now have access to all the objects that $Hans knows about.  If I want 
to update Hans:

$Hans->Name = 'Sue';
$Hans->Update();

If the Person object knows about the address object and the address 
object knows about the location object (which is all defined in the data 
model) I access them by:

$Lattude =  $Hans->HomeAddress->Location->Latitude;

It should be noted that we have ways of defining a name for a 
relationship in an object.  So, we might call the address relationship 
for the person object HomeAddress and only select home addresses when we 
call  $Hans->HomeAddress.  If we called $Hans->Address, if we defined 
it, we might get back a set of all of Hans' addresses.  In which case we 
have an iterator to go over them.  $Hans->Address[0], $Hans->Address[1], 
ect.

The ORM fetches the relations and data automatically.  If we eager 
loaded it, it will already be in the object, if we didn't eager load it, 
the system makes the sql calls to find it just in time.  We define on a 
per relationship level if we are going to eager load or not.  As you can 
imagine, eager loading is expensive.

I am truly not the expert here, I am not even sure how it all works on 
the inside.  I leave it to those smarter then me to work it out.  What I 
can tell you is that it currently works for us.

The blog post by Ted Neward is a very interesting read.  Now I am going 
to pay attention to where we fall victim to his assertions.

Hans
http://www.cyberxdesigns.com

>>
>    Is this a system you've built in-house?
>
>    I've certainly seen places where ORM was as much of a problem as it 
> was a solution.  On the other hand,  I've done more than my share of 
> maintainance on applications where sql code is distributed throughout 
> the application,  and (worse) applications where people developed a 
> database layer which encapsulated bad practices and bad assumptions 
> about the problem domain.
>
>    One basic trouble with ORM is that it violates the principle of 
> "don't repeat yourself;"  you have to maintain a database schema ~and~ 
> an object hiearchy.  Change one,  and you have to change the other.  
> Another problem is that there is a semantic mismatch between objects 
> and sql -- there are three ways to represent inheritance relations in 
> sql,  and all three are unsatisfactory in some way.
>
>    I've been working lately with a minimalist "active record" that 
> introspects the database,  and lets you write something like
>
> $table=$db->{my_table}
> $row=$table->fetch($id);
> $row->{count_value}=77;
> $row->update();
>
>    it saves a lot of fumbling with 'addslashes' or '?' parameters,  
> thus eliminating a common kind of repetitive coding.  It doesn't try 
> to map database 'rows' to anything else,  but it can still automate 
> certain aspects,  such as timestamping changes to rows,  and keeping 
> an archive of who changed what when.  I've been trying to develop 
> something that does 20% of the work and eliminates 80% of the pain of 
> writing "plain old" applications with lots of SQL.  So far the system 
> is zero-configuration,  although I'm sure I'll add features to it 
> someday that require some configuration -- for instance,  I do see an 
> easy way to implement a certain kind of inheritance.
>
>    ORM systems do get interesting,  however,  in architectures that 
> really take advantage of the objects.  For instance,  if you can 
> design your objects so that aspects cut across them,  you can build 
> really powerful systems quick.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>

-- 
Hans C. Kaspersetz
Cyber X Designs

Office: 201-558-7929
Mobile: 201-681-4156
hans at cyberxdesigns.com
http://www.cyberxdesigns.com



From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Jan 24 21:27:08 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:27:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <45B7C4D2.8030107@secdat.com>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
	<p06240801c1dd624b2403@[192.168.1.102]> <45B7C4D2.8030107@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c1ddc4d53c91@[192.168.0.100]>

At 3:42 PM -0500 1/24/07, Kenneth Downs wrote:
>tedd wrote:
>>Interesting characterization -- Obviously, it's not Vietnam, but 
>>instead those who served in Vietnam that are the object of that 
>>characterization.  Are Vietnam Vets commonly thought of as "getting 
>>hooked on it and start dreaming big dreams and nothing gets done"? 
>>Just wondering why Vietnam Vets are thought of in such terms.
>
>No, actually the characterization is generally understood to be 
>aimed at the politicians and policy makers who got into an 
>"unwinnable" situation.   The analogy to ORM is that it is a 
>strategy that cannot achieve its goals because of some fundamental 
>mis-understanding of the reality of the situation.


Ahhh... thanks for the explanation. I agree.

I hope you can understand that the metaphor can be taken more ways that one.

Cheers,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From ken at secdat.com  Wed Jan 24 21:35:52 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:35:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c1ddc4d53c91@[192.168.0.100]>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
	<p06240801c1dd624b2403@[192.168.1.102]>
	<45B7C4D2.8030107@secdat.com>
	<p06240800c1ddc4d53c91@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <45B81788.8080509@secdat.com>

tedd wrote:
> At 3:42 PM -0500 1/24/07, Kenneth Downs wrote:
>> tedd wrote:
>>> Interesting characterization -- Obviously, it's not Vietnam, but 
>>> instead those who served in Vietnam that are the object of that 
>>> characterization.  Are Vietnam Vets commonly thought of as "getting 
>>> hooked on it and start dreaming big dreams and nothing gets done"? 
>>> Just wondering why Vietnam Vets are thought of in such terms.
>>
>> No, actually the characterization is generally understood to be aimed 
>> at the politicians and policy makers who got into an "unwinnable" 
>> situation.   The analogy to ORM is that it is a strategy that cannot 
>> achieve its goals because of some fundamental mis-understanding of 
>> the reality of the situation.
>
>
> Ahhh... thanks for the explanation. I agree.
>
> I hope you can understand that the metaphor can be taken more ways 
> that one.
>

I should have put in a few disclaimers before saying it.  Which I must 
note to Chuck's credit, he was much more careful in his presentation 
than I was in the OP. 

Thanks for the reply, cheers!




-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070124/b5f1cf76/attachment.vcf>

From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Jan 24 21:53:32 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:53:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Never heard that term: Viet Nam of programming
In-Reply-To: <45B812B8.3070701@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45B758B1.4090401@secdat.com>
	<45B78732.80800@cyberxdesigns.com>	<45B80752.9020504@devonianfarm.com>
	<45B812B8.3070701@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45B81BAC.4090501@cyberxdesigns.com>

These are some of my comments based on a quick read of Ted's article. 

Object-to-Table Mapping Problem
We ended up adopting the table per concrete class approach.  We did 
denormalize and we accepted the costs.  We had the data base much more 
normalized but the inheritance issues became too problematic.  In 
selected places the team chose to flatten things to make our life a 
little easier.  After much soul searching and refactoring we have 
settled on a good balance of normalization.  Everything has a cost in life.

Schema-Ownership Conflict
Our database is slated to be used by a group of applications functioning 
on a framework.  We have chosen to write a framework and implement all 
the companies applications on that framework.  The data/object model 
lives in the framework.  It will be interesting to see how thing 
progress as new applications are built on the framework and the data.  I 
can see Ted's point here, I hadn't considered it.  I could see how a dev 
team could have a myopic view of who will use the system and how the 
data should be structured.  We have tried to implement ours in the most 
flexible form we could.  We knew from the start that our applications 
would be replacing a collection of existing applications with quite 
divergent requirements.

Data Retrieval Mechanism
We have elected to use the "Query-By-API" approach.  We can generate 
fairly complex and readable data retrieval requests.  Here is an example:

$Customer = new PreCustomer();
$Customer->GetFilter()->AddCondition('AND UserID = "FOO" ');
$CustomerSet = $Customer->Find(); 
$Customer = $CustomerSet[0];

If we need something truely complex, we define it in the data model and 
make it available to the whole of the framework.  If we need something 
complex and very local we can do the following:

$lookup = new Lookup();
$lookup->DBBroker()->Prepare('Lookup', "SELECT Value as Value, Value AS 
Name from OWLSLookup where LookupType = 'Foo' and Active=1 order by 
Position");
$Foo = $lookup->Lookup();

Hans
http://photos.cyberxdesigns.com



From arzala at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 23:18:52 2007
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:48:52 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Word Doc to PDF?
In-Reply-To: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net>
References: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <200701250948.52718.arzala@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 24 January 2007 19:25, Brian Dailey wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience or information on converting a simple
> Word document to a PDF? I've seen a few utilities that do this, but all
> of them are Word doc to printer to PDF hacks, and most are dependent
> upon an installation of Word or Open Office. There's got to be an easier
> way.

I could not figure out whether you want such utility/software for manual use 
or automatic use (for scripts like PHP).

As far as automatic use is concerned, I recommend an open source software 
called "catdoc" (to be installed on your server) that is able to read xls, 
ppt, doc files and outputs plain text that you can convert into PDF using one 
of the PDF libs available for PHP. All of these reading and writing tasks you 
can do by your PHP script.

* Search google for latest "catdoc" software.
* Search pear.php.net for PDF library for PHP.

Anirudh Zala
(Building standards)

>
> Thanks,
> - Brian
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 00:10:18 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:10:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <20070124235939.M71829@pinestream.com>
References: <20070124235939.M71829@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701242110l3f4720f4u661ec00649329e37@mail.gmail.com>

Super simple install. Works great.  Welcome to Mac land!

http://www.mamp.info/en/index.php

On 1/24/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> I just made the jump from Windows to MAC and am looking for software
> suggestion. Perhaps a suggested software list for the group would be useful.
> My questions for a MAC development environment:
>
> 1. Use OSX Apache or install new one?
> 2. Any gotchas with MySQL?
> 3. I love php/Smarty/MySQL/PEAR chm files of Windows. MAC equivalent?
> 4. Subversion client suggestions?
>
> I'll probably discover a zillion other programs that I use, but that's a start.
>
> Oh yeah, I need PHP! Suggestions for a compiled MAC PHP binary? Any equivalent
> of xampp for the MAC world?
>
> Any other useful MAC software to make a great MAC development platform?
>
> Cliff
>
> --
> Pinestream Communications, Inc.
> Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
> 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
> Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825, www.pinestream.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Thu Jan 25 07:18:00 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:18:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701242110l3f4720f4u661ec00649329e37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070124235939.M71829@pinestream.com>
	<c5949a380701242110l3f4720f4u661ec00649329e37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>

My thoughts below:

On 1/25/07, edward potter <edwardpotter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Super simple install. Works great.  Welcome to Mac land!
>
> http://www.mamp.info/en/index.php
>
> On 1/24/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> > I just made the jump from Windows to MAC and am looking for software
> > suggestion. Perhaps a suggested software list for the group would be
> useful.
> > My questions for a MAC development environment:
> >
> > 1. Use OSX Apache or install new one?


I used the existing Apache install with
http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/php/

> 2. Any gotchas with MySQL?


Downloaded from MySQL, no problem

> 3. I love php/Smarty/MySQL/PEAR chm files of Windows. MAC equivalent?

> 4. Subversion client suggestions?


svnx or BB edit has one...

>
> > I'll probably discover a zillion other programs that I use, but that's a
> start.
> >
> > Oh yeah, I need PHP! Suggestions for a compiled MAC PHP binary? Any
> equivalent
> > of xampp for the MAC world?
> >
> > Any other useful MAC software to make a great MAC development platform?
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > --
> > Pinestream Communications, Inc.
> > Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends
> > 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA
> > Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825, www.pinestream.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
> --
> the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070125/a040dbbf/attachment.html>

From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 07:35:51 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:35:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070124235939.M71829@pinestream.com>
	<c5949a380701242110l3f4720f4u661ec00649329e37@mail.gmail.com>
	<491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250435g1e02cfado10adfa70a6ec2d02@mail.gmail.com>

i use Zend Platform and mysql installed without a problem.

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Jan 25 08:36:36 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:36:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

Thanks to all the responses so far. I am going to try to catalog my
switchover - perhaps it will make a nice phundamental for the group.
 
So far, it has been fairly painless:
 
1. Native OSX Apache
2. http:// <http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/php/>
www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/php/
   This included important extensions I need like GD, mCrypt and mHash -
keep track of your extensions
3. MySQL from MySQL - would be nice to have a start/stop widget like the
one in MAMP
4. phpMyadmin - painless
 
(could have used http://www.mamp.info/en/index.php for a lot of this)
 
5. php Interactive - a great little testing sandbox
   First gotcha - default php install did not support short open names
<?, only <?php. This threw me for a bit. Lovely way to barf all your
code to the browser.
   Second gotcha - what those file/folder permissions
6. Zend Studio - painless so far, have not tried debugging yet.
Find/Replace shortcut keys are different, arggg!
7. Installed svnX for Subversion client
 
Day two.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070125/8b02416b/attachment.html>

From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Thu Jan 25 08:42:11 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:42:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>

Cliff, would be interested to hear your experience with Zend.  I'm running
it on the Windows side right now (via Parallels) - I think I need to upgrade
to the latest version of Zend to get it to run on the Intel/OSX side.

On 1/25/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  Thanks to all the responses so far. I am going to try to catalog my
> switchover ? perhaps it will make a nice phundamental for the group.
>
>
>
> So far, it has been fairly painless:
>
>
>
> 1. Native OSX Apache
>
> 2. http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/php/
>
>    This included important extensions I need like GD, mCrypt and mHash ?
> keep track of your extensions
>
> 3. MySQL from MySQL ? would be nice to have a start/stop widget like the
> one in MAMP
>
> 4. phpMyadmin ? painless
>
>
>
> (could have used http://www.mamp.info/en/index.php for a lot of this)
>
>
>
> 5. php Interactive ? a great little testing sandbox
>
>    First gotcha ? default php install did not support short open names <?,only <?
> php. This threw me for a bit. Lovely way to barf all your code to the
> browser.
>
>    Second gotcha ? what those file/folder permissions
>
> 6. Zend Studio ? painless so far, have not tried debugging yet.
> Find/Replace shortcut keys are different, arggg!
>
> 7. Installed svnX for Subversion client
>
>
>
> Day two?
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070125/53b476f4/attachment.html>

From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 08:42:23 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:42:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250542t47c0b067gbdc9f58c59c55d1b@mail.gmail.com>

Cliff,

I believe i saw a start and stop widget for MySQL, however you can
install the startup item so that MySQL starts on boot.

If you are going to use Zend Studio why did you not just install Zend
Platform?  Don't you need that to do debugging?

Thanks,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 08:46:06 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:46:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>

I am running Zend Studio 5.5 on the mac without any issues.   Well....
 It is a bit slow when using the scroll wheel to scroll through a long
file.

Thanks,
--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From tim at tmcode.com  Thu Jan 25 09:11:03 2007
From: tim at tmcode.com (Tim McEwen)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:11:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>

Slightly off topic but since the subject of Mac software came up,   
has anyone found a better replacement for Terminal?  Being a convert  
from KDE I have yet to find a suitable replacement for its tabbed  
terminal.  I'm using iTerm right now but it crashes way too often and  
has too many annoying glitches.

Also,  in my must have software list for os x I would put QuickSilver  
up there near the top.  Using the mouse wastes time IMHO. :)

-Tim


On Jan 25, 2007, at 8:46 AM, Joseph Crawford wrote:

> I am running Zend Studio 5.5 on the mac without any issues.   Well....
> It is a bit slow when using the scroll wheel to scroll through a long
> file.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 09:15:38 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:15:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250615s3325ff8fh9e828e65f725a1f2@mail.gmail.com>

Tim,

Have you tried Butler, i have found it to be much better than QuickSilver.
DefaultFolderX is also a must have
http://www.stclairsoft.com/DefaultFolderX/

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 09:17:47 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:17:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>

If you find a tabbed replacement for terminal i would love to know,
the only thing i have seen is a Quake version which allows the
Terminal to drop down from the menubar but that is useless to me ;)

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Jan 25 09:18:53 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:18:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701250542t47c0b067gbdc9f58c59c55d1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001801c7408b$be25d250$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

I could have used Zend Platform's or Zend Core for Apache and PHP.
Another option. So far, Zend Studio 5.1 seems pretty fast.

First major gotcha -- that Windows XP disk I though I had...it's an
upgrade version...

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:42 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC

Cliff,

I believe i saw a start and stop widget for MySQL, however you can
install the startup item so that MySQL starts on boot.

If you are going to use Zend Studio why did you not just install Zend
Platform?  Don't you need that to do debugging?

Thanks,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 09:22:43 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:22:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701250622t19a28898k325de4118e402014@mail.gmail.com>

Supported in Leopard.  Soon!  :-)

On 1/25/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you find a tabbed replacement for terminal i would love to know,
> the only thing i have seen is a Quake version which allows the
> Terminal to drop down from the menubar but that is useless to me ;)
>
> --
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 09:24:31 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:24:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701250622t19a28898k325de4118e402014@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<c5949a380701250622t19a28898k325de4118e402014@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250624x792e76aaofe65614acec2db5f@mail.gmail.com>

Ed what is supported in Leopard?

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 09:27:36 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:27:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701250622t19a28898k325de4118e402014@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<c5949a380701250622t19a28898k325de4118e402014@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701250627h6af1e0c6y64fed3c205e2497@mail.gmail.com>

Really give MAMP an install.  In 30 seconds you have a complete
development environment.  No, not a full blown IDE, but really one of
my favorite applications. And the whole thing launches with a Widget.
I can't believe they just give this whole thing away for free.

If not using VIM, TextWrangler works great for editing.





On 1/25/07, edward potter <edwardpotter at gmail.com> wrote:
> Supported in Leopard.  Soon!  :-)
>
> On 1/25/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you find a tabbed replacement for terminal i would love to know,
> > the only thing i have seen is a Quake version which allows the
> > Terminal to drop down from the menubar but that is useless to me ;)
> >
> > --
> > Joseph Crawford Jr.
> > Zend Certified Engineer
> > Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> > http://www.codebowl.com/
> > Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> > 1-802-671-2021
> > codebowl at gmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
> --
> the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From RLandrigan at terexca.com  Thu Jan 25 09:50:58 2007
From: RLandrigan at terexca.com (Robert Landrigan)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:50:58 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
Message-ID: <8E012943FA29204DB40C8DC3446CEF31029EC7D4@exchange.terexca.com>

I believe that he's referring to the long awaited tabbed Terminal, which
will be in Leopard.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:25 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC

 

Ed what is supported in Leopard?

 

 

 

Robert Landrigan

Web Developer, Terex Southaven

Terex Intranet Team

rlandrigan at terexca.com

+1 662.393.1274/www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

********************************************************************** 
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the company. The company does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. 

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. 

********************************************************************** 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070125/72279f5d/attachment.html>

From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 10:30:13 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:30:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <8E012943FA29204DB40C8DC3446CEF31029EC7D4@exchange.terexca.com>
References: <8E012943FA29204DB40C8DC3446CEF31029EC7D4@exchange.terexca.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701250730m461e1449h743cb167e5d4031e@mail.gmail.com>

thats it.  :-)  ed

On 1/25/07, Robert Landrigan <RLandrigan at terexca.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I believe that he's referring to the long awaited tabbed Terminal, which
> will be in Leopard.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
> Behalf Of Joseph Crawford
>  Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:25 AM
>  To: NYPHP Talk
>  Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
>
>
>
> Ed what is supported in Leopard?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert Landrigan
>
> Web Developer, Terex Southaven
>
> Terex Intranet Team
>
> rlandrigan at terexca.com
>
> +1 662.393.1274/www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> **********************************************************************
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the
> author and do not necessarily reflect those of the company. The company does
> not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the
> presence of computer viruses.
>
> **********************************************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 10:52:21 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:52:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701250730m461e1449h743cb167e5d4031e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8E012943FA29204DB40C8DC3446CEF31029EC7D4@exchange.terexca.com>
	<c5949a380701250730m461e1449h743cb167e5d4031e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250752n474fe651v6cf4060782c388f0@mail.gmail.com>

Tim,

Butler is so much more than a launcher, the one thing that i use it
for most is the launcher and it is very easy to use, however i also
use it to set a keystroke for fast user switching.  I press a few keys
and boom i am at the login screen while my apps are still running.

I love that ability especially since i have a 2 year old who loves my
keyboard and mouse :D

Butler also has a drop down menu in the menu bar that allows you to
quickly access your applications, preferences, hard drives, etc.  I do
admit that i do not use that menu much and rather just the launcher.

I have yet had time to actually learn all of Butler but it's amazing
(at least i think so)

I tried QuickSilver, LaunchBar and Butler and settled with Butler.

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 10:53:23 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:53:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701250752n474fe651v6cf4060782c388f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8E012943FA29204DB40C8DC3446CEF31029EC7D4@exchange.terexca.com>
	<c5949a380701250730m461e1449h743cb167e5d4031e@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250752n474fe651v6cf4060782c388f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250753y7eb258bbk899d6972313a5ec4@mail.gmail.com>

I am awaiting FedEx then i have to go through migrating this PowerMac
Quad G5 over to the new Mac Pro and i am hoping all the apps i use run
fine on Mac Pro ;)

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Thu Jan 25 11:18:20 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:18:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701250753y7eb258bbk899d6972313a5ec4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8E012943FA29204DB40C8DC3446CEF31029EC7D4@exchange.terexca.com>	<c5949a380701250730m461e1449h743cb167e5d4031e@mail.gmail.com>	<8d9a42800701250752n474fe651v6cf4060782c388f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250753y7eb258bbk899d6972313a5ec4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45B8D84C.8010404@beaffinitive.com>

I work on Linux all day long but I have Macs at home.  I'm always 
finding myself by habit hitting shift+home or shift+end by accident on 
the Mac, which doesn't select to the beginning/end of the line but to 
the beginning/end of the whole document - which is really annoying.  
Instead, it's something like shift+command+left or shift+command+right 
on Macs (if I can remember right). 

I thought I'd search the web to see if you can map the keys on a Mac to 
work like a PC... and I found something from LifeHacker.  Woohoo!  Can't 
wait to try this out - 
<http://lifehacker.com/software/keyboard/mac-switchers-tip--remap-the-home-and-end-keys-225873.php>

Looks like LifeHacker has another recent article explaining the simple 
things that PC->Mac switchers find themselves beating their heads over 
at first: 
<http://lifehacker.com/software/mac/hack-attack-a-guide-for-switching-to-a-mac-224674.php>

I think you might find those articles useful.
-Rob

Joseph Crawford wrote:
> I am awaiting FedEx then i have to go through migrating this PowerMac
> Quad G5 over to the new Mac Pro and i am hoping all the apps i use run
> fine on Mac Pro ;)
>


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 11:41:49 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:41:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <45B8D84C.8010404@beaffinitive.com>
References: <8E012943FA29204DB40C8DC3446CEF31029EC7D4@exchange.terexca.com>
	<c5949a380701250730m461e1449h743cb167e5d4031e@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250752n474fe651v6cf4060782c388f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250753y7eb258bbk899d6972313a5ec4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45B8D84C.8010404@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250841k6dd6f96g21149c558ebfe469@mail.gmail.com>

Rob,

SWEET I have been looking for something like this ;)  While i am sure
editing the files will work i have opted to use
http://doublecommand.sourceforge.net/

Thanks Again,

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From rsd at electronink.com  Thu Jan 25 12:02:21 2007
From: rsd at electronink.com (Russ Demarest)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:02:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701250730m461e1449h743cb167e5d4031e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8E012943FA29204DB40C8DC3446CEF31029EC7D4@exchange.terexca.com>
	<c5949a380701250730m461e1449h743cb167e5d4031e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45B8E29D.7040208@electronink.com>

A nice terminal for osX until leopard and perhaps after... iterm

http://iterm.sourceforge.net/

edward potter wrote:
> thats it.  :-)  ed
>
> On 1/25/07, Robert Landrigan <RLandrigan at terexca.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe that he's referring to the long awaited tabbed Terminal, which
>> will be in Leopard.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>  From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
>> Behalf Of Joseph Crawford
>>  Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:25 AM
>>  To: NYPHP Talk
>>  Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
>>
>>
>>
>> Ed what is supported in Leopard?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert Landrigan
>>
>> Web Developer, Terex Southaven
>>
>> Terex Intranet Team
>>
>> rlandrigan at terexca.com
>>
>> +1 662.393.1274/www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> **********************************************************************
>> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the
>> author and do not necessarily reflect those of the company. The 
>> company does
>> not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
>>
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
>> intended
>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
>> addressed.
>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system 
>> manager.
>>
>> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept 
>> for the
>> presence of computer viruses.
>>
>> **********************************************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>>
>
>


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 12:07:03 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:07:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <45B8E29D.7040208@electronink.com>
References: <8E012943FA29204DB40C8DC3446CEF31029EC7D4@exchange.terexca.com>
	<c5949a380701250730m461e1449h743cb167e5d4031e@mail.gmail.com>
	<45B8E29D.7040208@electronink.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701250907i769389feh7effdf7b8c6da15b@mail.gmail.com>

I am using Visor with a custom Terminal app for it so that it can
launch on boot etc.  The only issue is that i cannot get the quartz
animations to show ;(  They work in composer but not in Visor.

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From support at dailytechnology.net  Thu Jan 25 14:37:15 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:37:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Word Doc to PDF?
In-Reply-To: <200701250948.52718.arzala@gmail.com>
References: <45B7655E.7040909@dailytechnology.net>
	<200701250948.52718.arzala@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45B906EB.1050906@dailytechnology.net>

Yes, I was looking for something that could do it in a scripting 
environment. I will look into this, thank you.

- Brian

Anirudh Zala wrote:
> On Wednesday 24 January 2007 19:25, Brian Dailey wrote:
>> Does anyone have any experience or information on converting a simple
>> Word document to a PDF? I've seen a few utilities that do this, but all
>> of them are Word doc to printer to PDF hacks, and most are dependent
>> upon an installation of Word or Open Office. There's got to be an easier
>> way.
> 
> I could not figure out whether you want such utility/software for manual use 
> or automatic use (for scripts like PHP).
> 
> As far as automatic use is concerned, I recommend an open source software 
> called "catdoc" (to be installed on your server) that is able to read xls, 
> ppt, doc files and outputs plain text that you can convert into PDF using one 
> of the PDF libs available for PHP. All of these reading and writing tasks you 
> can do by your PHP script.
> 
> * Search google for latest "catdoc" software.
> * Search pear.php.net for PDF library for PHP.
> 
> Anirudh Zala
> (Building standards)
> 
>> Thanks,
>> - Brian
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 


From support at dailytechnology.net  Thu Jan 25 15:20:05 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:20:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Design Patterns
Message-ID: <45B910F5.9020201@dailytechnology.net>

During his most excellent presentation Tuesday night, Chuck mentioned 
design patterns and that if one were looking for a book about PHP design 
patterns, Hans would be able to recommend such a book.

I come from a Java background, and I'm familiar with design patterns in 
general, but not how they apply to PHP specifically (examples are a 
great way for me to learn).

So, Hans, or anyone else: any recommendations on such books?

Thanks!
- Brian


From ferencz.attila at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 15:30:09 2007
From: ferencz.attila at gmail.com (Attila Ferencz-Csibi)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:30:09 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Design Patterns
In-Reply-To: <45B910F5.9020201@dailytechnology.net>
References: <45B910F5.9020201@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <894e56a90701251230m356357c3g5e9afc8210879e1a@mail.gmail.com>

2007/1/25, Brian Dailey <support at dailytechnology.net>:
> During his most excellent presentation Tuesday night, Chuck mentioned
> design patterns and that if one were looking for a book about PHP design
> patterns, Hans would be able to recommend such a book.
>
> I come from a Java background, and I'm familiar with design patterns in
> general, but not how they apply to PHP specifically (examples are a
> great way for me to learn).
>
> So, Hans, or anyone else: any recommendations on such books?

hi,

if you have the related oop background from java just read these:
http://www.phppatterns.com/docs/start
http://www.phppatterns.com/docs/?idx=design

-- 
--------------------
Attila, Ferencz-Csibi


From lk613m at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 15:41:43 2007
From: lk613m at yahoo.com (LK)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:41:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Design Patterns
Message-ID: <20070125204143.40855.qmail@web53314.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm now reading "PHP|Architect's Guide to PHP Design Patterns" by Jason E. Sweat and find it to be very good resource on the subject.

Leo


----- Original Message ----
From: Brian Dailey <support at dailytechnology.net>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:20:05 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Design Patterns


During his most excellent presentation Tuesday night, Chuck mentioned 
design patterns and that if one were looking for a book about PHP design 
patterns, Hans would be able to recommend such a book.

I come from a Java background, and I'm familiar with design patterns in 
general, but not how they apply to PHP specifically (examples are a 
great way for me to learn).

So, Hans, or anyone else: any recommendations on such books?

Thanks!
- Brian
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never Miss an Email
Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile.  Get started!
http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070125/c322fa60/attachment.html>

From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 16:44:21 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:44:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Design Patterns
In-Reply-To: <20070125204143.40855.qmail@web53314.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20070125204143.40855.qmail@web53314.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701251344of9bf478v63d546ccce71995b@mail.gmail.com>

Another great book is

PHP 5 Objects, Patterns, and Practice by Matt Zandstra
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From travis at treevis.com  Thu Jan 25 21:46:22 2007
From: travis at treevis.com (travis forden)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:46:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>

On Jan 25, 2007, at 9:17 AM, Joseph Crawford wrote:

> If you find a tabbed replacement for terminal i would love to know,
> the only thing i have seen is a Quake version which allows the
> Terminal to drop down from the menubar but that is useless to me ;)

Russ already mentioned it, but I'll second it - iTerm. It's really  
what terminal should be.
http://iterm.sourceforge.net/

Cliff, for CHM files, you can copy them over and use the application  
Chmox to view them.
http://chmox.sourceforge.net/


--
travis forden   |   202.577.4403   |   http://treevis.com/




From chuck at horde.org  Thu Jan 25 23:01:28 2007
From: chuck at horde.org (Chuck Hagenbuch)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:01:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Slides from Tuesday's meeting are now online
Message-ID: <20070125230128.1cyjdcztwggowcww@technest.org>

Hi folks-

I've finally gotten a chance to put the slides from Tuesday's talk  
online (after making some changes to avoid assuming demos on  
localhost). They are located here:

http://www.horde.org/papers/nyphp-2007-01/

(http://www.horde.org/papers/ is the general Horde presentations list)

If NYPHP wants to have a copy instead of just a link, feel free to  
grab them from http://cvs.horde.org/hordeweb/papers/nyphp-2007-01 or  
http://cvs.horde.org/presentations/.

ALSO: I talked to a few people about the Property Tracker code (the  
real estate/houses demo). It currently needs a few tweaks because of  
changes to the RDO helpers that it was built on. I'll clean those up  
sometime soon and post a new version; I don't want to spam the list  
with that, but if you are interested in the updated code, please send  
me a private reply and I will make sure to send you an email when the  
fixed code is online.

Thanks for having me down from Boston,
-chuck

-- 
"we are plastered to the windshield of the bus that is time." - Chris


From skyline at publicmine.com  Fri Jan 26 10:49:14 2007
From: skyline at publicmine.com (Ben Sgro (sk))
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:49:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Auction Software
Message-ID: <005c01c74161$87e7b150$6401a8c0@gamebox>

Hello all,

I'm looking for a PHP solution for adding auction functionality to a site.

I DO NOT want to use templates, just interface the auction libraries and 
calls into my site.

I've found a few solutions from google, but wanted to know if anyone has had 
experiance in this area?

Ones I've looked into (But are template driven)
http://www.phpauction.net/xl.php
http://www.phpprobid.com/auction-software-admin.php

This *says* its for custom web-based auction sites...
http://www.phpauction-gpl-2.51.auctioncode.com/index.php

Any help is appreciated!

- Ben 



From anieshjoseph at gmail.com  Fri Jan 26 11:42:14 2007
From: anieshjoseph at gmail.com (Aniesh joseph)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:12:14 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] timezone dropdown help
Message-ID: <1b3d2fde0701260842x14df5f43p95ca97d1f40f54af@mail.gmail.com>

hi

I need to make a drop down in my web site in a registration form. From the
drop down user can select the his desired time zone. My question is, I want
to capture user's timezone using javascript and it will be shown as slected
when at the time of registration. I got a javascript, it will capture only
timezoneoffset.  Is anyrelation between timezone offset and name? Is ie
available as table? Can anyne help me to d this or by suggest another method
?

regards
joseph
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070126/322a53a3/attachment.html>

From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Jan 26 12:29:51 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:29:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>

Thought you guys might want to see this ;)
http://www.josephcrawford.com/2007/01/26/the-new-mac-pro-with-parallels/

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Fri Jan 26 15:25:10 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:25:10 -0800
Subject: [OT]   Re: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21753-31953@sneakemail.com>

Joseph Crawford codebowl-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> Thought you guys might want to see this ;)
> http://www.josephcrawford.com/2007/01/26/the-new-mac-pro-with-parallels/
>
Thanks for marking this discussion OT as we go.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Jan 26 16:12:33 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:12:33 -0500
Subject: [OT] Re: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <21753-31953@sneakemail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
	<21753-31953@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701261312w737641a3pb64df8fa5e8135ce@mail.gmail.com>

do i detect sarcasm ;)

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From ramons at gmx.net  Fri Jan 26 18:16:06 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:16:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] timezone dropdown help
In-Reply-To: <1b3d2fde0701260842x14df5f43p95ca97d1f40f54af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1b3d2fde0701260842x14df5f43p95ca97d1f40f54af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BA8BB6.2010800@gmx.net>

Aniesh joseph wrote:
> hi
> 
> I need to make a drop down in my web site in a registration form. From the
> drop down user can select the his desired time zone. My question is, I want
> to capture user's timezone using javascript and it will be shown as slected
> when at the time of registration. I got a javascript, it will capture 
> only timezoneoffset.  Is anyrelation between timezone offset and name? 
> Is ie available as table? Can anyne help me to d this or by suggest 
> another method ?
> 
> regards
> joseph
> 

Some time ago I asked a similar question and someone on this list was so 
nice to provide me with the ECMAScript for the client side to pull out 
the time zone bias.

The general code is this one

       if(!isset($_COOKIE['GMT_bias'])) {
       ?>
	     <script type="text/javascript">
	     var Cookies = {};
	     /***
	     * @name = string, name of cookie
	     * @value = string, value of cookie
	     * @days = int, number of days before cookie expires
	     ***/
	     Cookies.create = function (name, value, days) {
	          if (days) {
		    var date = new Date();
		    date.setTime(date.getTime() + (days * 24 * 60 * 60 * 1000));
		    var expires = "; expires=" + date.toGMTString();
	     } else {
		    var expires = "";
	     }
	     document.cookie = name + "=" + value + expires + "; path=/";
	     this[name] = value;
	     }
	     var now = new Date();
	     Cookies.create("GMT_bias",now.getTimezoneOffset(),7);
	     window.location = "<?php echo $_SERVER['PHP_SELF'];?>";
	     </script>
       <?php
       } else {
	     echo $_COOKIE['GMT_bias'];
       }

It will simply echo the bias in minutes, which should be good enough to 
find out the client's time zone by name assuming you have some table for 
lookups or can pull that from the server system (no idea how that works, 
but other programming languages can do that. Since PHP can do anything 
including cooking breakfast, there should be some way).


At least it gets you started.

	David


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Fri Jan 26 18:21:39 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:21:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
Message-ID: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>

I can't believe that my group is the only group on this list that has 
implemented ORM.  If you have implemented ORM, what challenges did you 
face?  And how did you solve them?  What compromises did you choose?  
Were they conscious or unconscious compromises?

Hans


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Jan 26 18:52:12 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:52:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
In-Reply-To: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701261552x48de98fcv6e1f4daf47292ad8@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/26/07, Hans C. Kaspersetz <hans at cyberxdesigns.com> wrote:
> I can't believe that my group is the only group on this list that has
> implemented ORM.  If you have implemented ORM, what challenges did you
> face?  And how did you solve them?  What compromises did you choose?
> Were they conscious or unconscious compromises?

The (now sadly defunct) NYPHP Clew project implemented an extremely
limited sort of O/RM. It was really more of a persistent object store,
because everything was stored in one table. Nevertheless, you could
load collections of php objects based on SQL queries, so it was
relational in the sense of "one record to another" rather than
"records in one table to records in another."

The main compromise was that most object properties weren't indexed,
and (worse) had to be looked up using a LIKE comparison, because they
were stored in the database as a serialized, generic php object. On
the other hand, you had complete freedom, as a developer, to create
and use different types of objects without ever changing the database
schema.

That kind of O/RM works great in situations like content management,
where you have a bunch of different kinds of objects which all have
roughly the same basic properties (database schema, things like title
and mimetype) but where you need freedom to add custom properties at
will (like link_color or rsvp_email). Since you generally don't need
to do lookups on those custom properties, the database doesn't need to
know about them.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From urb at e-government.com  Fri Jan 26 19:07:34 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:07:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Subject
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>

Hi People,

	I hope I'm not out of order with this request.

	Would it be possible for people to change the subject line when
starting a new thread?

	Somethimes there is a thread that is of no interest to me but I still
have to at least scan the message because sometimes the thread had
changed several and still has the same subject. It also makes it difficult
when searching the archives.

Urb




From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Jan 26 19:20:15 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:20:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Subject
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701261620j32f38bb9qf40fd761314050ab@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/26/07, Urb LeJeune <urb at e-government.com> wrote:
> Would it be possible for people to change the subject line when
> starting a new thread?

And while we're on the topic of netiquette, please be aware that not
everyone uses fancy web-based mailers that hide quoted text.

Please take a moment to trim the fat (and sigs) from long quotes, and
place your reply below quoted text instead of above it. Top-posting[1]
isn't evil, but it *is* generally considered uncouth, as is sending
86KB of quoted history with your one word reply.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_posting

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From ken at secdat.com  Fri Jan 26 20:54:42 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 20:54:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Subject
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <45BAB0E2.7070507@secdat.com>

That reminds me, that great movie "the Seven Samurai" is a lot longer 
than I remember, and my wife doesn't want to sit through the whole thing.

Urb LeJeune wrote:
> Hi People,
>
>     I hope I'm not out of order with this request.
>
>     Would it be possible for people to change the subject line when
> starting a new thread?
>
>     Somethimes there is a thread that is of no interest to me but I still
> have to at least scan the message because sometimes the thread had
> changed several and still has the same subject. It also makes it 
> difficult
> when searching the archives.
>
> Urb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070126/5848d3e7/attachment.vcf>

From ken at secdat.com  Fri Jan 26 21:15:13 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 21:15:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
In-Reply-To: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45BAB5B1.30805@secdat.com>

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
> I can't believe that my group is the only group on this list that has 
> implemented ORM.

One reason it is not that common is that it is a response based on 
experience with lots of biz apps.  A great many PHP programmers have 
never seen a biz app and never will.  There is a large group of 
programmers whose radar will never show any significant RM strategy.

Next is

>   If you have implemented ORM, what challenges did you face?

All of the challenges we faced stemmed from  the fact that all apparent 
parallels between classes and tables were illusory, misleading, and 
ultimately counter-productive.   Some colorful analogies that come to 
mind are: "Tables fit to classes like  fingers in light sockets." 

To swallow the red pill on this, all you have to do is inquire into the 
basic purpose of the various layers in a web app.  The DB layer is all 
about faithfully storing structured data.  Its interface is a simple, 
set-oriented declarative language called SQL.  The code layer is all 
about picking data up from one place and sending it to another, either 
from the browser (or other imput) to the db or vice-versa.  Most 
languages in this layer cannot efficiently do set-based operations.

The key here is to realize that the specs for these two layers are 
entirely different.  A database specification is an unordered list of 
definitions, while a program specification is an ordered list of 
actions.  The first mistake of ORM is to try to make a system where we 
can safely ignore these distinctions, forgetting of course that the 
distinctions are very useful and necessary.

Once you've decided to try to treat these two as if they were the same, 
it becomes impossible to get the interface right between them.  Consider 
the simple fact that it follows from their natures that the job of the 
interface is to arrive at set-based SQL commands in the one direction 
and to serve up the results of set-based SQL commands in the other.  But 
in the ORM mind you can never arrive at this simple truth because you 
are busy trying to figure out how to implement the declarative concept 
of a foreign-key in the step-by-step world of code.  

Now here OO theory comes to our aid.  OOP theory loves a cleanly 
encapsulated object with a useful interface.  The PHP/Apache layer is 
just such a thing, and the database another such thing.  They are very 
different kinds of things, and our OOP theory tells us they will fail to 
behave efficiently if we try to wrap a single interface around them, as 
ORM tries to do.

Another big example of this kind of thinking is ASP.Net, which tries to 
convince the programmer that he does not have to worry about the 
browser-server interface, he can safely ignore it. 

> And how did you solve them?  

I abandoned ORM completely and without regret and adopted an 
architecture that relegates jobs to the 5 elements of a web app 
(browser, server, db, browser-server interface, server-db interface) as 
is appropriate to each element, with no attempt to make any of them go 
away or act like one of the others.

> What compromises did you choose?

None.

>   Were they conscious or unconscious compromises?

I can't tell you about the unconscious ones :)


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070126/211b2c68/attachment.vcf>

From jbaer at VillageVoice.com  Fri Jan 26 21:16:13 2007
From: jbaer at VillageVoice.com (Baer, Jon)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 21:16:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com><000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop><491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com><8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com><365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com><8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
Message-ID: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939651@mail>

Another cross-platform tabbed terminal:

http://software.jessies.org/terminator/

Personally use iTerm on OSX and Poderosa on Windows (http://en.poderosa.org/)

For IDE on Mac, TextMate hands down is a beautiful thing.

- Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org on behalf of travis forden
Sent: Thu 1/25/2007 9:46 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
 
On Jan 25, 2007, at 9:17 AM, Joseph Crawford wrote:

> If you find a tabbed replacement for terminal i would love to know,
> the only thing i have seen is a Quake version which allows the
> Terminal to drop down from the menubar but that is useless to me ;)

Russ already mentioned it, but I'll second it - iTerm. It's really  
what terminal should be.
http://iterm.sourceforge.net/

Cliff, for CHM files, you can copy them over and use the application  
Chmox to view them.
http://chmox.sourceforge.net/


--
travis forden   |   202.577.4403   |   http://treevis.com/


_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 3548 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070126/4ea8b15f/attachment.bin>

From jbaer at VillageVoice.com  Fri Jan 26 21:19:42 2007
From: jbaer at VillageVoice.com (Baer, Jon)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 21:19:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
References: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939652@mail>

For those not understanding the term or issues, Wikipedia has a great resource on it ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relational_mapping

- Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org on behalf of Hans C. Kaspersetz
Sent: Fri 1/26/2007 6:21 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
 
I can't believe that my group is the only group on this list that has 
implemented ORM.  If you have implemented ORM, what challenges did you 
face?  And how did you solve them?  What compromises did you choose?  
Were they conscious or unconscious compromises?

Hans
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2701 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070126/5b8bc1db/attachment.bin>

From codebowl at gmail.com  Sat Jan 27 08:07:26 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:07:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939651@mail>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939651@mail>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701270507h1a3d1b67o3172f8659f691f61@mail.gmail.com>

OH YAY for all of those who are using BootCamp on the new intel mac
and have the bluetooth keyboard and mouse, you have to read this ;)

Everyone said it was not possible to use the bluetooth keyboard and
mouse, they are wrong.

http://www.josephcrawford.com/2007/01/27/bootcamp-on-the-mac-pro/
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From ken at secdat.com  Sat Jan 27 09:28:07 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 09:28:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
In-Reply-To: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939652@mail>
References: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939652@mail>
Message-ID: <45BB6177.2040902@secdat.com>

I'm not usually one to complain about wikipedia, but I wouldn't put too 
much faith in that particular article, the author's knowledge of RDBMS 
is extremely weak. 

 Examples of fundamental misunderstanding include:

"For example, relational databases make complicated associations 
difficult," 

...which indicates no understanding of use of primary and foreign keys.  
It is the simplicity of these two building blocks that makes complicated 
relationships so easy to build.  Double-shame go to the author for 
failing to recognize the use of *composition*, a key OO technique, in 
the construction of complicated relationships.

We also have to hope this is just a typo:

"they [RDBMS] tend to "map" poorly into the OO world because they fail 
to implement the relational model 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_model>'s (did he mean 
Object-oriented models?) user-defined types."

Does my toaster "fail to implement" automobile brakes?  Might it be 
because you don't need brakes on a toaster? 

This one I can't ignore:

"In the object world there is a clear sense of "ownership 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership>", where a particular person 
object owns a particular phone number. This is not the case in 
relational databases"

As my daughter would say, OMG!!!  This guy needs to dig through 
wikipedia for something called 'row-level-security'.  In my databases a 
user can only see their own information, because they "own" it.  An 
admin is the guy that can see it all.  Not to mention that the table 
itself is the *fundamental* *mechanism* for associating attributes to a 
particular entity.

my last stab, from the very same sentence:

"...the tables have no idea how they relate to other tables at a 
fundamental level"

Foreign key anybody?  Look up the term "natural join" as well.

Oh, well, enough of this ranting, I'm putting some intro material on the 
Andromeda website today, and getting a new domain name, its only fun for 
so long to beat up on somebody's work, much more fun to perfect your own....



Baer, Jon wrote:
> For those not understanding the term or issues, Wikipedia has a great resource on it ...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relational_mapping
>
> - Jon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org on behalf of Hans C. Kaspersetz
> Sent: Fri 1/26/2007 6:21 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
>  
> I can't believe that my group is the only group on this list that has 
> implemented ORM.  If you have implemented ORM, what challenges did you 
> face?  And how did you solve them?  What compromises did you choose?  
> Were they conscious or unconscious compromises?
>
> Hans
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070127/90ba5459/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070127/90ba5459/attachment.vcf>

From greg.rundlett at gmail.com  Sat Jan 27 10:00:51 2007
From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:00:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
In-Reply-To: <45BB6177.2040902@secdat.com>
References: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939652@mail>
	<45BB6177.2040902@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <5e2aaca40701270700n277c9951y36fe4b7631e269b@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/27/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>
>  I'm not usually one to complain about wikipedia, but I wouldn't put too
> much faith in that particular article, the author's knowledge of RDBMS is
> extremely weak.
>
>   Examples of fundamental misunderstanding include:
>

[snip]

>
>  Oh, well, enough of this ranting, I'm putting some intro material on the
> Andromeda website today, and getting a new domain name, its only fun for so
> long to beat up on somebody's work, much more fun to perfect your own....
>

Ken, you obviously have good RDBMS knowledge, I hope that the next
time you discover such mistakes in wikipedia that you might just hit
the 'edit' link and add your contributions for everyone's benefit.
Then you could post a link to the NYPHP group about how the article on
wikipedia *is* accurate and well-informed -- thanks to you.

-- 
A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?


From ken at secdat.com  Sat Jan 27 10:27:41 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:27:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
In-Reply-To: <5e2aaca40701270700n277c9951y36fe4b7631e269b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>	<4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939652@mail>	<45BB6177.2040902@secdat.com>
	<5e2aaca40701270700n277c9951y36fe4b7631e269b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BB6F6D.6020800@secdat.com>

Greg Rundlett wrote:
>
> Ken, you obviously have good RDBMS knowledge, I hope that the next
> time you discover such mistakes in wikipedia that you might just hit
> the 'edit' link and add your contributions for everyone's benefit.
> Then you could post a link to the NYPHP group about how the article on
> wikipedia *is* accurate and well-informed -- thanks to you.
>

Thanks, I did immediately consider this.   However, as the task is 
daunting, I have asked myself how it might be accomplished over time, as 
just about the entire article has to be re-considered.  My understanding 
is you start out by 'flagging' the article as biased, and then in some 
cases you have to work out the changes on the 'talk' page.

However, there is some legitimate reverse sentiment here.  One idea is 
simply this, that the true information you might get if I edited that 
page is all already there -- you just have to look for RDBMS.  I have to 
wonder a little bit why the author feels no need to educate himself 
before writing the article, or how it suddenly becomes my responsibility 
to do so.

The second idea is that there is some responsibility in the reader to 
pursue that information.  Each of knows what we know because we went out 
of our way to learn.  In a 3-tier world it is hard to justify ignorance 
of one of the tiers when so much information is available.  Is it my job 
to re-write on that page what is so well written elsewhere?  If I can do 
a service by pointing out that the page is wrong and why, then those who 
wish to get the good info know a little more about what they are looking 
for.  





-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 273 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070127/226a1ddc/attachment.vcf>

From jeff.knight at gmail.com  Sat Jan 27 14:17:07 2007
From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:17:07 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Subject
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701261620j32f38bb9qf40fd761314050ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>
	<b76252690701261620j32f38bb9qf40fd761314050ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2ca9ba910701271117h3cd5ec94i36326f80848a4f69@mail.gmail.com>

fat chance, nancy boy

On 1/26/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/26/07, Urb LeJeune <urb at e-government.com> wrote:
> > Would it be possible for people to change the subject line when
> > starting a new thread?
>
> And while we're on the topic of netiquette, please be aware that not
> everyone uses fancy web-based mailers that hide quoted text.
>
> Please take a moment to trim the fat (and sigs) from long quotes, and
> place your reply below quoted text instead of above it. Top-posting[1]
> isn't evil, but it *is* generally considered uncouth, as is sending
> 86KB of quoted history with your one word reply.
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_posting
>
> --
> Chris Snyder
> http://chxo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Sat Jan 27 18:06:34 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:06:34 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ORM
In-Reply-To: <5e2aaca40701270700n277c9951y36fe4b7631e269b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45BA8D03.5050408@cyberxdesigns.com>	<4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939652@mail>	<45BB6177.2040902@secdat.com>
	<5e2aaca40701270700n277c9951y36fe4b7631e269b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <13427-29393@sneakemail.com>

Greg Rundlett greg.rundlett-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| 
wrote:

> On 1/27/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>  Oh, well, enough of this ranting, I'm putting some intro material on 
>> the
>> Andromeda website today, and getting a new domain name, its only fun 
>> for so
>> long to beat up on somebody's work, much more fun to perfect your 
>> own....
>>
>
> Ken, you obviously have good RDBMS knowledge, I hope that the next
> time you discover such mistakes in wikipedia that you might just hit
> the 'edit' link and add your contributions for everyone's benefit.
> Then you could post a link to the NYPHP group about how the article on
> wikipedia *is* accurate and well-informed -- thanks to you.
>
I totaly support the concept of contributing to open source projects. 
But it is not equivalent to suggest someone take time to update wikipedia.

Wikipedia is a private venture no matter how you might convince yourself 
otherwise. It may not have monetized yet (neither has Craig's list, 
really) but it can and a number of recent actions by wikipedia's 
founders show that they are trying (wikisaria or whatever it is called, 
and more).

Wikipedia does not link out to the web as it could and IMHO should, and 
uses self-serving tactics behind the scenes (like nofollow attributes on 
links). Wikipedia is not run democratically as it has promoted in the 
past. Wikipedia has publicly expressed a desire to re-write web pages it 
finds so as to make them redundant, with the resulting wiki page set to 
assume authority on the topic. In my view that's neither benevolent nor 
fair. Just because it's technicaly not copying, the intent is clearly to 
copy and eliminate non-wiki informational pages relevance on the web.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but when you make that "so do 
something about it" response and also suggest you contribute freely to 
someone else's self-serving project, I need to speak up.

-=john andrews



From support at dailytechnology.net  Sat Jan 27 20:12:49 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:12:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] timezone dropdown help
In-Reply-To: <45BA8BB6.2010800@gmx.net>
References: <1b3d2fde0701260842x14df5f43p95ca97d1f40f54af@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BA8BB6.2010800@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <45BBF891.4000203@dailytechnology.net>

Check out timezone_abbreviations_list

http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.timezone-abbreviations-list.php

It basically prints an array that contains each time zone and the offset 
for that time zone. Maybe you can use that to get what you need.

- Brian

David Krings wrote:
> Aniesh joseph wrote:
>> hi
>>
>> I need to make a drop down in my web site in a registration form. From 
>> the
>> drop down user can select the his desired time zone. My question is, I 
>> want
>> to capture user's timezone using javascript and it will be shown as 
>> slected
>> when at the time of registration. I got a javascript, it will capture 
>> only timezoneoffset.  Is anyrelation between timezone offset and name? 
>> Is ie available as table? Can anyne help me to d this or by suggest 
>> another method ?
>>
>> regards
>> joseph
>>
> 
> Some time ago I asked a similar question and someone on this list was so 
> nice to provide me with the ECMAScript for the client side to pull out 
> the time zone bias.
> 
> The general code is this one
> 
>       if(!isset($_COOKIE['GMT_bias'])) {
>       ?>
>          <script type="text/javascript">
>          var Cookies = {};
>          /***
>          * @name = string, name of cookie
>          * @value = string, value of cookie
>          * @days = int, number of days before cookie expires
>          ***/
>          Cookies.create = function (name, value, days) {
>               if (days) {
>             var date = new Date();
>             date.setTime(date.getTime() + (days * 24 * 60 * 60 * 1000));
>             var expires = "; expires=" + date.toGMTString();
>          } else {
>             var expires = "";
>          }
>          document.cookie = name + "=" + value + expires + "; path=/";
>          this[name] = value;
>          }
>          var now = new Date();
>          Cookies.create("GMT_bias",now.getTimezoneOffset(),7);
>          window.location = "<?php echo $_SERVER['PHP_SELF'];?>";
>          </script>
>       <?php
>       } else {
>          echo $_COOKIE['GMT_bias'];
>       }
> 
> It will simply echo the bias in minutes, which should be good enough to 
> find out the client's time zone by name assuming you have some table for 
> lookups or can pull that from the server system (no idea how that works, 
> but other programming languages can do that. Since PHP can do anything 
> including cooking breakfast, there should be some way).
> 
> 
> At least it gets you started.
> 
>     David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 


From support at dailytechnology.net  Sat Jan 27 20:13:02 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:13:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] timezone dropdown help
In-Reply-To: <45BA8BB6.2010800@gmx.net>
References: <1b3d2fde0701260842x14df5f43p95ca97d1f40f54af@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BA8BB6.2010800@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <45BBF89E.1050607@dailytechnology.net>

Check out timezone_abbreviations_list

http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.timezone-abbreviations-list.php

It basically prints an array that contains each time zone and the offset
for that time zone. Maybe you can use that to get what you need.

- Brian

David Krings wrote:
> Aniesh joseph wrote:
>> hi
>>
>> I need to make a drop down in my web site in a registration form. From 
>> the
>> drop down user can select the his desired time zone. My question is, I 
>> want
>> to capture user's timezone using javascript and it will be shown as 
>> slected
>> when at the time of registration. I got a javascript, it will capture 
>> only timezoneoffset.  Is anyrelation between timezone offset and name? 
>> Is ie available as table? Can anyne help me to d this or by suggest 
>> another method ?
>>
>> regards
>> joseph
>>
> 
> Some time ago I asked a similar question and someone on this list was so 
> nice to provide me with the ECMAScript for the client side to pull out 
> the time zone bias.
> 
> The general code is this one
> 
>       if(!isset($_COOKIE['GMT_bias'])) {
>       ?>
>          <script type="text/javascript">
>          var Cookies = {};
>          /***
>          * @name = string, name of cookie
>          * @value = string, value of cookie
>          * @days = int, number of days before cookie expires
>          ***/
>          Cookies.create = function (name, value, days) {
>               if (days) {
>             var date = new Date();
>             date.setTime(date.getTime() + (days * 24 * 60 * 60 * 1000));
>             var expires = "; expires=" + date.toGMTString();
>          } else {
>             var expires = "";
>          }
>          document.cookie = name + "=" + value + expires + "; path=/";
>          this[name] = value;
>          }
>          var now = new Date();
>          Cookies.create("GMT_bias",now.getTimezoneOffset(),7);
>          window.location = "<?php echo $_SERVER['PHP_SELF'];?>";
>          </script>
>       <?php
>       } else {
>          echo $_COOKIE['GMT_bias'];
>       }
> 
> It will simply echo the bias in minutes, which should be good enough to 
> find out the client's time zone by name assuming you have some table for 
> lookups or can pull that from the server system (no idea how that works, 
> but other programming languages can do that. Since PHP can do anything 
> including cooking breakfast, there should be some way).
> 
> 
> At least it gets you started.
> 
>     David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 



From support at dailytechnology.net  Sat Jan 27 20:19:44 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:19:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Design Patterns
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701251344of9bf478v63d546ccce71995b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070125204143.40855.qmail@web53314.mail.yahoo.com>
	<8d9a42800701251344of9bf478v63d546ccce71995b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BBFA30.5000402@dailytechnology.net>

I actually just ordered that book last week, so that's quite convenient.

Thanks for the recommendations, guys.

- Brian

Joseph Crawford wrote:
> Another great book is
> 
> PHP 5 Objects, Patterns, and Practice by Matt Zandstra


From harita_hadraw at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 21:07:33 2007
From: harita_hadraw at yahoo.com (harita_hadraw)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:07:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] advise needed
Message-ID: <993653.71291.qm@web50606.mail.yahoo.com>

hi..
   
  I am doing a research (search engine) about how to retrieve documents from other search engine such as citeseer, google or else..The retrieved document should be saved into my own database and im using PHP.
   
  Right now, im having difficulties to proceed with my research.Please advise me on the coding or programming to do so.
   
  All the helps given is very much appreciated.
   
  Thank you.

 
---------------------------------
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070127/598445bc/attachment.html>

From codebowl at gmail.com  Sat Jan 27 21:50:28 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:50:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Subject
In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910701271117h3cd5ec94i36326f80848a4f69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>
	<b76252690701261620j32f38bb9qf40fd761314050ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ca9ba910701271117h3cd5ec94i36326f80848a4f69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701271850r4790a2a2g1fbd7d949d53c3ca@mail.gmail.com>

So how would one change the subject in Gmail?  Just compose a new message?
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From rolan at omnistep.com  Sat Jan 27 22:29:06 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:29:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Subject
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701271850r4790a2a2g1fbd7d949d53c3ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>	<b76252690701261620j32f38bb9qf40fd761314050ab@mail.gmail.com>	<2ca9ba910701271117h3cd5ec94i36326f80848a4f69@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701271850r4790a2a2g1fbd7d949d53c3ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BC1882.50309@omnistep.com>

Joseph Crawford wrote:
> So how would one change the subject in Gmail?  Just compose a new 
> message?
By clicking the "Edit Subject" link.

~Rolan


From support at dailytechnology.net  Sat Jan 27 20:24:42 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:24:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Tabbed Terminal
In-Reply-To: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939651@mail>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com><000001c74085$d6364f60$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop><491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com><8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com><365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com><8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24502939651@mail>
Message-ID: <45BBFB5A.3020303@dailytechnology.net>

You got my hopes up with this one, Jon, but I was sad to see that 
"Terminator" requires a bulky install of cygwin and ruby (on Windows).

I'm constantly jumping between Windows and Ubuntu. Gnome has a great 
tabbed terminal, but I have yet to find a good one for Windows. If any 
of you run across a great lightweight tabbed terminal for Windows, 
please let me know.

- Brian

Baer, Jon wrote:
> Another cross-platform tabbed terminal:
> 
> http://software.jessies.org/terminator/
> 
> Personally use iTerm on OSX and Poderosa on Windows (http://en.poderosa.org/)
> 
> For IDE on Mac, TextMate hands down is a beautiful thing.
> 
> - Jon
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org on behalf of travis forden
> Sent: Thu 1/25/2007 9:46 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
>  
> On Jan 25, 2007, at 9:17 AM, Joseph Crawford wrote:
> 
>> If you find a tabbed replacement for terminal i would love to know,
>> the only thing i have seen is a Quake version which allows the
>> Terminal to drop down from the menubar but that is useless to me ;)
> 
> Russ already mentioned it, but I'll second it - iTerm. It's really  
> what terminal should be.
> http://iterm.sourceforge.net/
> 
> Cliff, for CHM files, you can copy them over and use the application  
> Chmox to view them.
> http://chmox.sourceforge.net/
> 
> 
> --
> travis forden   |   202.577.4403   |   http://treevis.com/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From codebowl at gmail.com  Sun Jan 28 01:39:53 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 01:39:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Subject
In-Reply-To: <45BC1882.50309@omnistep.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>
	<b76252690701261620j32f38bb9qf40fd761314050ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ca9ba910701271117h3cd5ec94i36326f80848a4f69@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701271850r4790a2a2g1fbd7d949d53c3ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BC1882.50309@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701272239l3f5fc267r5647729961c67124@mail.gmail.com>

Oh thanks i never saw that link ;D  I will do that from now on :)
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Sun Jan 28 10:23:41 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:23:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Subject
In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910701271117h3cd5ec94i36326f80848a4f69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<491198290701250542h58b9b30dt31d9e1f2c3754b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>
	<b76252690701261620j32f38bb9qf40fd761314050ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ca9ba910701271117h3cd5ec94i36326f80848a4f69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701280723n46e8c647mf7eeab2d8e99b4d7@mail.gmail.com>

Well, duh. I didn't mean *you*.

On 1/27/07, Jeff Knight <jeff.knight at gmail.com> wrote:
> fat chance, nancy boy
>
> On 1/26/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Top-posting[1]
> > isn't evil, but it *is* generally considered uncouth.


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Sun Jan 28 10:33:51 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:33:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Subject
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701280723n46e8c647mf7eeab2d8e99b4d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290701250418y5dc082efyd012468a94ee5e49@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701250546n48e16fd3i65718441201d3f8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<365E2FC7-7CAC-4774-9FF5-2F304F6C8A1C@tmcode.com>
	<8d9a42800701250617y5b42a9f9qed59dc2115e6d8c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<E8C79368-7E92-4A3F-8FFA-D29A0065642B@treevis.com>
	<8d9a42800701260929i449a7a4ewe17309cc55569ae5@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070126190526.026f8ea0@e-government.com>
	<b76252690701261620j32f38bb9qf40fd761314050ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ca9ba910701271117h3cd5ec94i36326f80848a4f69@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690701280723n46e8c647mf7eeab2d8e99b4d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701280733lfedc10bud2848b96bf02995c@mail.gmail.com>

actually it shows how the brain works in a linear way.

You look at the topic thread in gmail, and there is no link to edit
the subject, however it you reply to the email (which means that you
think you at this point you have passed your chance to edit the
subject) then you see an edit subject link.  It's like a chicken and
egg thing or maybe in programmers terms "a CALLBACK?".

:-)  ed



On 1/28/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, duh. I didn't mean *you*.
>
> On 1/27/07, Jeff Knight <jeff.knight at gmail.com> wrote:
> > fat chance, nancy boy
> >
> > On 1/26/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Top-posting[1]
> > > isn't evil, but it *is* generally considered uncouth.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From randalrust at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 08:21:28 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:21:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
Message-ID: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>

I need to find out if I can resample an image and also resample it
using the GD Library. I don't seem to find anything that does it
without creating and storing a thumbnail from the original image.

Right now, I get an image and use getimagesize() to create new values
for the height and width attributes. But that leaves an image that is
less than perfect.

I'd rather not store thumbnails of the images if I can avoid it, but
maybe I can't.

TIA.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Jan 29 09:34:25 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:34:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>

Randal Rust wrote:
> I need to find out if I can resample an image and also resample it
> using the GD Library. I don't seem to find anything that does it
> without creating and storing a thumbnail from the original image.
> 
> Right now, I get an image and use getimagesize() to create new values
> for the height and width attributes. But that leaves an image that is
> less than perfect.
> 
> I'd rather not store thumbnails of the images if I can avoid it, but
> maybe I can't.

Randal,

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking...can you give us a general
idea of what you're trying to achieve?

Dan


From randalrust at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 09:52:28 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:52:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/29/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:

> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking...can you give us a general
> idea of what you're trying to achieve?

Sure. Take a look here:

http://r2test3.com/project_detail.php?rec=3

What I have done is used getimagesize(0 to get the original width and
height of the image. Then I modify those values proportionally with a
script I wrote and do this:

<img src="'.$url.'" width="'.$newW.'" height="'.$newH.'" />

The issue is that the images don't look as clear as I'd like them to
after resizing. I think they just need to be resampled.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From ken at secdat.com  Mon Jan 29 09:55:35 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:55:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>	<45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
	<a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BE0AE7.2090807@secdat.com>

Randal Rust wrote:
> On 1/29/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking...can you give us a general
>> idea of what you're trying to achieve?
>
> Sure. Take a look here:
>
> http://r2test3.com/project_detail.php?rec=3

If you are on a *nix machine, take a look at the 'convert' tool, it is a 
CLI tool that will do nigh-well anything to an image.

Convert has always given resizing results completely satisfactory to me, 
though I am not a graphics pro.

>
> What I have done is used getimagesize(0 to get the original width and
> height of the image. Then I modify those values proportionally with a
> script I wrote and do this:
>
> <img src="'.$url.'" width="'.$newW.'" height="'.$newH.'" />
>
> The issue is that the images don't look as clear as I'd like them to
> after resizing. I think they just need to be resampled.
>

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070129/f5d36dc0/attachment.vcf>

From support at dailytechnology.net  Mon Jan 29 10:03:39 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:03:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] advise needed
In-Reply-To: <993653.71291.qm@web50606.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <993653.71291.qm@web50606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45BE0CCB.1090207@dailytechnology.net>

Harita,

If you have no PHP experience and you're looking for someone to actually 
write this project for you, I suggest you hire a freelancer. You may 
find one on this list, or you can place an ad in Craigslist to find 
someone that is willing to write the code for you.

A freelancer would be able to meet with you, determine your 
specifications, and give you an idea of how much a project like this 
would cost.

Otherwise, such a general question is hardly answerable within the scope 
of this list. If you have a more specific question, we may be able to 
assist you more.

- Brian D.

harita_hadraw wrote:
> hi..
>  
> I am doing a research (search engine) about how to retrieve documents 
> from other search engine such as citeseer, google or else..The retrieved 
> document should be saved into my own database and im using PHP.
>  
> Right now, im having difficulties to proceed with my research.Please 
> advise me on the coding or programming to do so.
>  
> All the helps given is very much appreciated.
>  
> Thank you.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites 
> <http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097;_ylc=X3oDMTFtNW45amVpBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw-- 
>  > to find flight and hotel bargains.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From dorgan at optonline.net  Mon Jan 29 10:03:27 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J. Organ IV)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:03:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
	<a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BE0CBF.4050205@optonline.net>

Using the img tag does not resize the image, it just forces it to 
display at the specified width and height.

You may want to look into imagemagick or the GD library for something 
like this.

Randal Rust wrote:
> On 1/29/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking...can you give us a general
>> idea of what you're trying to achieve?
>
> Sure. Take a look here:
>
> http://r2test3.com/project_detail.php?rec=3
>
> What I have done is used getimagesize(0 to get the original width and
> height of the image. Then I modify those values proportionally with a
> script I wrote and do this:
>
> <img src="'.$url.'" width="'.$newW.'" height="'.$newH.'" />
>
> The issue is that the images don't look as clear as I'd like them to
> after resizing. I think they just need to be resampled.
>


From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Mon Jan 29 10:14:54 2007
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:14:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.6.1363003651.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 08:21 AM 1/29/2007, Randal Rust wrote:
>I need to find out if I can resample an image and also resample it
>using the GD Library. I don't seem to find anything that does it
>without creating and storing a thumbnail from the original image.
>
>Right now, I get an image and use getimagesize() to create new values
>for the height and width attributes. But that leaves an image that is
>less than perfect.
>
>I'd rather not store thumbnails of the images if I can avoid it, but
>maybe I can't.

If the images originated from a recent digital camera, a thumbnail 
image might be stored in the original image. Take a look at the 
exig_thumbnail() function <http://www.php.net/exit_thumbnail>.

If that is not the case, there are image resampling functions in the 
GD package. Take a look at the imagecopyresampled() function 
<http://www.php.net/imagecopyresampled>.

Ken 



From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Jan 29 10:21:26 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:21:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>	<45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
	<a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BE10F6.9010206@phpwerx.net>

Randal Rust wrote:
> On 1/29/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
> 
>> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking...can you give us a general
>> idea of what you're trying to achieve?
> 
> Sure. Take a look here:
> 
> http://r2test3.com/project_detail.php?rec=3
> 
> What I have done is used getimagesize(0 to get the original width and
> height of the image. Then I modify those values proportionally with a
> script I wrote and do this:
> 
> <img src="'.$url.'" width="'.$newW.'" height="'.$newH.'" />
> 
> The issue is that the images don't look as clear as I'd like them to
> after resizing. I think they just need to be resampled.

Randal,

You can easily use GD to resample images on the fly, but it will be slow
and take a heavy toll on the webserver if you're getting any kind of
traffic.

The trick is to write a php script which accepts an image name as a
parameter, loads the image into GD and outputs the resampled version
directly to the browser.

The more efficient way to do this is to cache the generated image on
disk, and only regenerate it when the source image changes (I do this by
comparing the last modified timestamps of the source image and the
resampled version in the cache).

Here is a function to get you started, which takes an image file,
resamples it to the specified height and width, and then either writes
it to the named file or outputs it to the browser.

Dan

function _resize_image_gd2($imgfile,$w = NULL,$h = NULL,$format =
'png',$destfile = NULL)
{
  $size = getimagesize($imgfile);
  $s_w = $size[0];
  $s_h = $size[1];

  switch ($size[2]) {
    case 1: // GIF
      $src = imagecreatefromgif($imgfile);
      break;
    case 2: // JPEG
      check_jpeg($imgfile);
      $src = imagecreatefromjpeg($imgfile);
      break;
    case 3: // PNG
      $src = imagecreatefrompng($imgfile);
      break;
    default:
      $src = imagecreatefromstring(file_get_contents($imgfile));
  }

  if (!is_resource($src)) {
    return false;
  }

  $dest = imagecreatetruecolor($w,$h);
  if (!is_resource($dest)) {
    return false;
  }

  imageantialias($dest,TRUE);

  imagecopyresampled($dest,$src,0,0,0,0,$w,$h,$s_w,$s_h);

  if (isset($destfile)) {
    switch (strtolower($format)) {
      case 'jpg':
      case 'jpeg':
        imagejpeg($dest,$destfile);
        break;
      case 'png':
        imagepng($dest,$destfile);
        break;
      default:
        return false;
    }
  } else {
    switch (strtolower($format)) {
      case 'jpg':
      case 'jpeg':
        imagejpeg($dest);
        break;
      case 'png':
        imagepng($dest);
        break;
      default:
        return false;
    }
  }

  return true;
}


From randalrust at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 10:22:56 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:22:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <45be0fba.27c719e9.3011.ffffe7fcSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
	<45be0fba.27c719e9.3011.ffffe7fcSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50701290722i3145e6fqd63d6f541e847560@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/29/07, Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com> wrote:

> If that is not the case, there are image resampling functions in the
> GD package. Take a look at the imagecopyresampled() function
> <http://www.php.net/imagecopyresampled>.

That is what I was hoping to avoid.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From randalrust at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 10:24:07 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:24:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <45BE10F6.9010206@phpwerx.net>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
	<a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BE10F6.9010206@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50701290724r1ddb61f8m891780f3e8dd9499@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/29/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:

> The trick is to write a php script which accepts an image name as a
> parameter, loads the image into GD and outputs the resampled version
> directly to the browser.

Yeah, that's what I was looking for. Thanks for the script. I'll see
what I can come up with.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From urb at e-government.com  Mon Jan 29 10:58:44 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:58:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
	<a9caffe50701290652r55299b46q6bb953fca2fc2d92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070129104617.00eaede8@e-government.com>


>What I have done is used getimagesize(0 to get the original width and
>height of the image. Then I modify those values proportionally with a
>script I wrote and do this:
>
><img src="'.$url.'" width="'.$newW.'" height="'.$newH.'" />

         There is a downside to this technique. If you are display the image
smaller than the original the full sized image is downloaded. If you are
displaying it larger than the original the quality is reduced.

         Take a look at an application I'm currently developing. It is a
magizine/newsletter publishing system. It's not quite ready for prime
time but you're get the idea of what I'm doing.

http://ncvoa.e-government.com/magazine/index.php

notice the different sized images even though there is only one saved image.

         The administrator can set the maximum image size for:

         Uploaded images, issue, cover article, feature article, 
author, and album.

         If an uploaded image is larger than the maximum size it 
reduced to that
size before saving. Only one image is saved.

         If an image is to be used for a cover article (150 pixels 
max) it is first
resized on the server and display at that size without being saved to disk.

         Is that what you had in mind?

Urb




From devlin.matt at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 11:52:08 2007
From: devlin.matt at gmail.com (MJD MJD)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:52:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <68df55d70701290852g60ffdb1ap193ec6259673e2a2@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone is looking for this type of role in NYC please get in touch
Regards
Matt
  *Job description:* Our client, an online publisher of financial
publications, has an immediate permanent opening for a PHP Expert.
Ideal candidates should meet the following requirements:

Required skills and experience:

Minimum 3-years of experience
Expert knowledge of PHP (4 or 5) and MySQL database applications
Expert knowledge of hand-coding HTML, JavaScript, and other web technologies

Stong understanding of OO principles
Experience building web applications from scratch
Excellent organizational skills and strong attention to detail

Desired skills and experience:

Experience administering Apache web servers
Experience writing SQL stored procedures
Web interface design
Strong attention to detail
An excellent work ethic
Excellent written and oral communication skills
Ability to work effectively independently
Effective troubleshooting skills
Capable of meeting tight deadlines

If qualified, please e-mail your resume in confidence (Word format
preferred) to: matt at aclion.com




On 1/29/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
>
> Randal Rust wrote:
> > I need to find out if I can resample an image and also resample it
> > using the GD Library. I don't seem to find anything that does it
> > without creating and storing a thumbnail from the original image.
> >
> > Right now, I get an image and use getimagesize() to create new values
> > for the height and width attributes. But that leaves an image that is
> > less than perfect.
> >
> > I'd rather not store thumbnails of the images if I can avoid it, but
> > maybe I can't.
>
> Randal,
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking...can you give us a general
> idea of what you're trying to achieve?
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070129/278a2e68/attachment.html>

From urb at e-government.com  Mon Jan 29 12:06:24 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:06:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <68df55d70701290852g60ffdb1ap193ec6259673e2a2@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BE05F1.10603@phpwerx.net>
	<68df55d70701290852g60ffdb1ap193ec6259673e2a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070129120537.025b4a38@e-government.com>


>If anyone is looking for this type of role in NYC please get in touch
>Regards
>Matt

         Doesn't sound like resample Image on the Fly to me :-)

Urb




From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 12:49:31 2007
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:49:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CakePHP & Oracle
Message-ID: <4b1887110701290949i575904bk6d84148993df4e6@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings!

I'm putting out a call for Oracle developers to try out the new
CakePHP Oracle driver. The newest version can be found here:
https://svn.cakephp.org/repo/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/datasources/dbo/dbo_oracle.php

I'm currently developing on PHP5 and Oracle 10g Enterprise Edition. So
anyone using PHP4 or a lesser Oracle version would be just kickass in
my book.

---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer
The Broad Institute of MIT & Harvard
Cambridge, MA


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Mon Jan 29 13:10:00 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:10:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50701290722i3145e6fqd63d6f541e847560@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>	<45be0fba.27c719e9.3011.ffffe7fcSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
	<a9caffe50701290722i3145e6fqd63d6f541e847560@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BE3878.1070107@beaffinitive.com>

Why do you want to avoid storing the thumbnails on the disk?  Resampling 
the image usually involves uncompressing it into an image resource which 
can be pretty memory intensive if you have to do it for multiple images 
on every page request.

-Rob

Randal Rust wrote:
> On 1/29/07, Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com> wrote:
>
>> If that is not the case, there are image resampling functions in the
>> GD package. Take a look at the imagecopyresampled() function
>> <http://www.php.net/imagecopyresampled>.
>
> That is what I was hoping to avoid.
>


From randalrust at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 14:25:41 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:25:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <45BE3878.1070107@beaffinitive.com>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>
	<45be0fba.27c719e9.3011.ffffe7fcSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
	<a9caffe50701290722i3145e6fqd63d6f541e847560@mail.gmail.com>
	<45BE3878.1070107@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50701291125s2b265a0fo17a6da4bf66c59bf@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/29/07, Rob Marscher <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:

> Why do you want to avoid storing the thumbnails on the disk?

I would just rather deal with one copy of the image if possible.

> Resampling
> the image usually involves uncompressing it into an image resource which
> can be pretty memory intensive

But, if that's the best way to do it, then that is probably what I should do.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Mon Jan 29 14:48:12 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:48:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Resample Image on the Fly
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50701291125s2b265a0fo17a6da4bf66c59bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50701290521t51d223f5q58d216702ef7617f@mail.gmail.com>	<45be0fba.27c719e9.3011.ffffe7fcSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>	<a9caffe50701290722i3145e6fqd63d6f541e847560@mail.gmail.com>	<45BE3878.1070107@beaffinitive.com>
	<a9caffe50701291125s2b265a0fo17a6da4bf66c59bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45BE4F7C.4020102@beaffinitive.com>

Randal Rust wrote:
> But, if that's the best way to do it, then that is probably what I 
> should do.
Yeah... I think that GD's imagecopyresampled is the way to go.  You 
could create a thumbnail subdirectory and put the thumbnails in there 
with the sample filename as the original to make them easy to keep track of.

-Rob


From tim_lists at o2group.com  Mon Jan 29 18:39:33 2007
From: tim_lists at o2group.com (Tim Lieberman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:39:33 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IDE help switching from Windows to MAC
In-Reply-To: <20070124235939.M71829@pinestream.com>
References: <20070124235939.M71829@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <D6DC2305-F55C-46FC-9465-33E27DF7DC58@o2group.com>

entropy.ch - lots of nice apache/php pre-built binaries in handy  
MacOS-friendly installers.

Other than that, I do very little development directly on my mac, so  
I don't have much to suggest in the way of editors, etc.  Aquamacs is  
a decent emacs environment, but it tends to spawn too many windows  
(i'm sure I could fix that, but my development environment really  
lives on a fedora box, and my tools are bash, emacs, mysql, and gnu  
screen)




On Jan 24, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:

> Oh yeah, I need PHP! Suggestions for a compiled MAC PHP binary? Any  
> equivalent
> of xampp for the MAC world?
>
> Any other useful MAC software to make a great MAC development  
> platform?

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070129/ada647f5/attachment.html>

From codebowl at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 19:18:38 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:18:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Safest and best way to get the referer
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701291618r2f4caf65pbd4f4196fbea0579@mail.gmail.com>

Guys,

I know that HTTP_REFERER is not always accurate or even set.  There
are also ways for people to fake that value.  I tend not to rely on
that much however what i need to do is this.

We have a file called spy.php that will return data to the browser if
the sitekey is found in our database.  This data is to be used by
members so they can show statistics on their site.  However to be sure
that it was the correct sitekey i was also checking the referer domain
against the domain stored in the database.  Is there a better way to
do this?  I do not want someone to be able to display the stats for
another site on theirs.

Is there a way to do this or should i just base it on the sitekey and
if it is valid return the stats for that particular site.  The sitekey
is an md5 hash.

Thanks,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From lists at genoverly.net  Tue Jan 30 18:50:55 2007
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:49:55 -0501
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
Message-ID: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>


	http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sad/270790501.html

	Candidates must have strong knowledge of Perl, PHP, HTML, XML,
	JavaScript, CGI, Apache, MySQL, using standard, team-based web
	development practices.

	Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour


They forgot to mention that you do not get all the fries you can
eat, have to wear a paper hat, or repeat "Do you want to super-size
that" all day.

-- 

michael


(this address does not accept public email)



From jay at wnymusic.com  Tue Jan 30 18:55:17 2007
From: jay at wnymusic.com (Jay)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:55:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <f0ddf1540701301555x7f9d633ckc00804bc950a4148@mail.gmail.com>

Wow. Wonder what qualifications you need to hit the high end of that payscale...

On 1/30/07, michael <lists at genoverly.net> wrote:
>
>         http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sad/270790501.html
>
>         Candidates must have strong knowledge of Perl, PHP, HTML, XML,
>         JavaScript, CGI, Apache, MySQL, using standard, team-based web
>         development practices.
>
>         Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour
>
>
> They forgot to mention that you do not get all the fries you can
> eat, have to wear a paper hat, or repeat "Do you want to super-size
> that" all day.
>
> --
>
> michael
>
>
> (this address does not accept public email)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From codebowl at gmail.com  Tue Jan 30 18:58:25 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:58:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <f0ddf1540701301555x7f9d633ckc00804bc950a4148@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<f0ddf1540701301555x7f9d633ckc00804bc950a4148@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701301558s7d49d5b6y78713b1b76ba9efb@mail.gmail.com>

Wow that is just amazing pretty funny that they would request that lol
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From paul at gubavision.com  Tue Jan 30 19:28:49 2007
From: paul at gubavision.com (Paul)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:28:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701301558s7d49d5b6y78713b1b76ba9efb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<f0ddf1540701301555x7f9d633ckc00804bc950a4148@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701301558s7d49d5b6y78713b1b76ba9efb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D95EF492-3108-4442-B75B-5C2227A3CBC5@gubavision.com>

Right now there are 20 plus applicants from 3rd world nations with  
experience applying.   Welcome to the new world order.  Do you here  
the sucking sound Ross.



On Jan 30, 2007, at 6:58 PM, Joseph Crawford wrote:

> Wow that is just amazing pretty funny that they would request that lol
> -- 
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From tboyden at supercoups.com  Tue Jan 30 21:02:44 2007
From: tboyden at supercoups.com (Timothy Boyden)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:02:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701301558s7d49d5b6y78713b1b76ba9efb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A001DD9B@greenmonster.supercoups.local>

Yeah this is exactly what I was talking about a couple months back when
there was a discussion on the going rate for PHP programmers.

I mean obviously they're not looking for an experienced PHP programmer
(at least they shouldn't be at that rate, especially in New York City)
they're just looking for a marketing intern that has some PHP and web
design experience, but I'm finding it to be extremely hard to do PHP
consulting work because there is people that will actually do it at that
kind of hourly rate and potential employers hear this and refuse to pay
more to the point that it is insulting to hear their low-ball number. At
$7 - $10 an hour, what's the incentive to work hard at learning and
staying up to date on programming languages or other IT skills?

It's part of the reason why I won't do just programming and do mostly
hardware IT consulting.

-Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:58 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable

Wow that is just amazing pretty funny that they would request that lol
--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Tue Jan 30 21:05:43 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:05:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com><f0ddf1540701301555x7f9d633ckc00804bc950a4148@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701301558s7d49d5b6y78713b1b76ba9efb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c744dc$52595ab0$07d6f4a7@ced>

"Wow", is an understatement. Look at the tech outsourcing to Bombay and the
salaries there sometime. Eventually US coders/Designers will be obsolete...
sadly.

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joseph Crawford" <codebowl at gmail.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable


> Wow that is just amazing pretty funny that they would request that lol
> -- 
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>




From joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com  Tue Jan 30 21:11:17 2007
From: joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com (Josh McCormack)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:11:17 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A001DD9B@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
References: <8d9a42800701301558s7d49d5b6y78713b1b76ba9efb@mail.gmail.com>
	<C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A001DD9B@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
Message-ID: <e22ad7830701301811o48484d18y75c1a5d68fd9ba62@mail.gmail.com>

I think there's quite a bit of variety in the work you could expect from a
PHP programmer. While I think $10/hour is really, really low, there are some
positions that are just heads down, follow the instructions, who cares what
the code looks like type. For these, I don't think pay in the $35k-55 is
completey unreasonable. Once you move into more complex code, making readale
code that's efficient and according to accepted design patterns, connecting
to APIs and what not, or you bring more thought into how the code should be
written or how the program should work, then I think you should definitely
be getting more.

I have seen ads for PHP programming jobs that are a smidge over $100k, but
that seems like the glass ceiling for being a PHP progammer working for
someone else.

Josh


On 1/30/07, Timothy Boyden <tboyden at supercoups.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah this is exactly what I was talking about a couple months back when
> there was a discussion on the going rate for PHP programmers.
>
> I mean obviously they're not looking for an experienced PHP programmer
> (at least they shouldn't be at that rate, especially in New York City)
> they're just looking for a marketing intern that has some PHP and web
> design experience, but I'm finding it to be extremely hard to do PHP
> consulting work because there is people that will actually do it at that
> kind of hourly rate and potential employers hear this and refuse to pay
> more to the point that it is insulting to hear their low-ball number. At
> $7 - $10 an hour, what's the incentive to work hard at learning and
> staying up to date on programming languages or other IT skills?
>
> It's part of the reason why I won't do just programming and do mostly
> hardware IT consulting.
>
> -Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:58 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
>
> Wow that is just amazing pretty funny that they would request that lol
> --
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070130/e16e5714/attachment.html>

From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 30 21:45:53 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:45:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>

To all my php buds.  I hate to say this, but I have seen some recent
CL posts for USA based, Graduate students with (as they quote) a
number of years of php experience, that are billing at $10 an hour.

What was the straw that broke the camels back?  The DIGG guys saying
they built their ZILLION dollar site with an overseas php programmer,
for $10/HR.  That was the final nail in the coffin.

So what am I doing?  I am diving FULL blast into Python, and the
Django frame work. Major Python shops?  Google, yahoo, and youtube.
Yes, I'll still use php, in fact it's Wordpress, MediaWiki, and just
about any ecommerce application out there, In fact, every project I'm
working on now is php based - BUT I'M AM SORRY to say, with at least
6+ years with php under my belt, I think it's time to move on.   Yes,
I know cake is cool, and 5.0 rocks, but the writing is on the wall for
a freelancer.  If you have a 9-5, as a php developer,  sit tight, SAVE
your bucks, sink it into Google options, BUT don' t think of living
your day job (unless you are very brave!!  The market is brutal right
now.

I lived in India for .65 cents a day, there is no way to compete with
those costs in the USA.

http://www.djangoproject.com/

And some comments here:
"Last week, I wrote about my discontent with PHP and why I chose to
give Python a shot at becoming my new tool of choice."
http://blog.rightbrainnetworks.com/category/development/php/

- ed  YIPES!  :-)

On 1/30/07, michael <lists at genoverly.net> wrote:
>
>         http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sad/270790501.html
>
>         Candidates must have strong knowledge of Perl, PHP, HTML, XML,
>         JavaScript, CGI, Apache, MySQL, using standard, team-based web
>         development practices.
>
>         Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour
>
>
> They forgot to mention that you do not get all the fries you can
> eat, have to wear a paper hat, or repeat "Do you want to super-size
> that" all day.
>
> --
>
> michael
>
>
> (this address does not accept public email)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Tue Jan 30 21:57:18 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:57:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A03C3304-4050-43C2-BAD8-30F3FEC43E6A@email.smith.edu>

I'm taking an artificial intelligence class and we can do the  
assignments in Python, Java, or C++.  I was leaning toward Java but  
your post makes me want to lean toward Python.  Hmmm...

-Aaron

On Jan 30, 2007, at 9:45 PM, edward potter wrote:

> So what am I doing?  I am diving FULL blast into Python, and the
> Django frame work. Major Python shops?  Google, yahoo, and youtube.
> Yes, I'll still use php, in fact it's Wordpress, MediaWiki, and just
> about any ecommerce application out there, In fact, every project I'm
> working on now is php based - BUT I'M AM SORRY to say, with at least
> 6+ years with php under my belt, I think it's time to move on.


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 30 22:03:03 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:03:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <A03C3304-4050-43C2-BAD8-30F3FEC43E6A@email.smith.edu>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
	<A03C3304-4050-43C2-BAD8-30F3FEC43E6A@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701301903g7d7a1f6bh4dd03c5a4300e4b4@mail.gmail.com>

Python rocks, but for sure get some Java experience under your belt too.

Good luck!  :-) ed

On 1/30/07, Aaron Fischer <agfische at email.smith.edu> wrote:
> I'm taking an artificial intelligence class and we can do the
> assignments in Python, Java, or C++.  I was leaning toward Java but
> your post makes me want to lean toward Python.  Hmmm...
>
> -Aaron
>
> On Jan 30, 2007, at 9:45 PM, edward potter wrote:
>
> > So what am I doing?  I am diving FULL blast into Python, and the
> > Django frame work. Major Python shops?  Google, yahoo, and youtube.
> > Yes, I'll still use php, in fact it's Wordpress, MediaWiki, and just
> > about any ecommerce application out there, In fact, every project I'm
> > working on now is php based - BUT I'M AM SORRY to say, with at least
> > 6+ years with php under my belt, I think it's time to move on.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Tue Jan 30 22:10:47 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:10:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701301903g7d7a1f6bh4dd03c5a4300e4b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
	<A03C3304-4050-43C2-BAD8-30F3FEC43E6A@email.smith.edu>
	<c5949a380701301903g7d7a1f6bh4dd03c5a4300e4b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B72A11B8-6633-4D70-8626-C125A17B0407@email.smith.edu>

I've had an intro procedural programming course that used Python and  
an object-oriented programming course that used Java.  I've been  
using PHP at work for about four years.

It seemed to me that Python was more similar to PHP than Java.  Java  
seemed liked a different animal.  That's sort of why I was leaning  
toward Java since I thought it might be helpful to broaden my  
programming horizons.

Would you agree with that, or am I off-base with my understanding of  
the languages?

Thanks for the good luck wish, I'll probably need it.  =)

-Aaron


On Jan 30, 2007, at 10:03 PM, edward potter wrote:

> Python rocks, but for sure get some Java experience under your belt  
> too.
>
> Good luck!  :-) ed
>
> On 1/30/07, Aaron Fischer <agfische at email.smith.edu> wrote:
>> I'm taking an artificial intelligence class and we can do the
>> assignments in Python, Java, or C++.  I was leaning toward Java but
>> your post makes me want to lean toward Python.  Hmmm...
>>
>> -Aaron
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2007, at 9:45 PM, edward potter wrote:
>>
>> > So what am I doing?  I am diving FULL blast into Python, and the
>> > Django frame work. Major Python shops?  Google, yahoo, and youtube.
>> > Yes, I'll still use php, in fact it's Wordpress, MediaWiki, and  
>> just
>> > about any ecommerce application out there, In fact, every  
>> project I'm
>> > working on now is php based - BUT I'M AM SORRY to say, with at  
>> least
>> > 6+ years with php under my belt, I think it's time to move on.
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>
>
> -- 
> the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From randalrust at gmail.com  Tue Jan 30 22:15:44 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:15:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50701301915o17b66ddu37f9d31aca9b9e36@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/30/07, edward potter <edwardpotter at gmail.com> wrote:

> To all my php buds.  I hate to say this, but I have seen some recent
> CL posts for USA based, Graduate students with (as they quote) a
> number of years of php experience, that are billing at $10 an hour.

The company that I work for, I think we pay $7-$12 an hour for our
developers in India. They are strictly Java, JSP, Struts, Maverick and
the like.

Don't be fooled though. You get what you pay for.

I've seen in so many times where it takes 3-4 times as long to *get it
right* than it should. It all adds up. It just looks good when you are
doing estimates for multi-million dollar jobs, because you can
estimate thousands of hours of development time at ridiculously low
prices. But when it comes down to delivery, and things start to fail
and take longer than they should -- well, that's when reality hits the
client.

-- 
Randal Rust


From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 30 22:19:14 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:19:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <B72A11B8-6633-4D70-8626-C125A17B0407@email.smith.edu>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
	<A03C3304-4050-43C2-BAD8-30F3FEC43E6A@email.smith.edu>
	<c5949a380701301903g7d7a1f6bh4dd03c5a4300e4b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<B72A11B8-6633-4D70-8626-C125A17B0407@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701301919p15991ab9t96c4b72e103b9214@mail.gmail.com>

Java seems to have a number of fits and starts over the  last 10
years, but hanging on. Python can of course be used for all things web
based, and can also create full blown applications too.  (bittorrent
for one), I'm still just a beginner.

I have a friend that has been doing Java (and hating it) for almost 10
years, he said the other day, he finally "got it!"  now he's madly in
love with it.

:-) ed

On 1/30/07, Aaron Fischer <agfische at email.smith.edu> wrote:
> I've had an intro procedural programming course that used Python and
> an object-oriented programming course that used Java.  I've been
> using PHP at work for about four years.
>
> It seemed to me that Python was more similar to PHP than Java.  Java
> seemed liked a different animal.  That's sort of why I was leaning
> toward Java since I thought it might be helpful to broaden my
> programming horizons.
>
> Would you agree with that, or am I off-base with my understanding of
> the languages?
>
> Thanks for the good luck wish, I'll probably need it.  =)
>
> -Aaron
>
>
> On Jan 30, 2007, at 10:03 PM, edward potter wrote:
>
> > Python rocks, but for sure get some Java experience under your belt
> > too.
> >
> > Good luck!  :-) ed
> >
> > On 1/30/07, Aaron Fischer <agfische at email.smith.edu> wrote:
> >> I'm taking an artificial intelligence class and we can do the
> >> assignments in Python, Java, or C++.  I was leaning toward Java but
> >> your post makes me want to lean toward Python.  Hmmm...
> >>
> >> -Aaron
> >>
> >> On Jan 30, 2007, at 9:45 PM, edward potter wrote:
> >>
> >> > So what am I doing?  I am diving FULL blast into Python, and the
> >> > Django frame work. Major Python shops?  Google, yahoo, and youtube.
> >> > Yes, I'll still use php, in fact it's Wordpress, MediaWiki, and
> >> just
> >> > about any ecommerce application out there, In fact, every
> >> project I'm
> >> > working on now is php based - BUT I'M AM SORRY to say, with at
> >> least
> >> > 6+ years with php under my belt, I think it's time to move on.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >>
> >> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> >> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >>
> >> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> > the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> > the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> > the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Tue Jan 30 23:12:26 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:12:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c744ee$060b2f50$07d6f4a7@ced>

Interesting that you'd go with Python. I've focused on Java, only by cause
of bias. (My Own that is. =D) Any other reasons you think Python should be
taking up my loverly reading time?

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "edward potter" <edwardpotter at gmail.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable


> To all my php buds.  I hate to say this, but I have seen some recent
> CL posts for USA based, Graduate students with (as they quote) a
> number of years of php experience, that are billing at $10 an hour.
>
> What was the straw that broke the camels back?  The DIGG guys saying
> they built their ZILLION dollar site with an overseas php programmer,
> for $10/HR.  That was the final nail in the coffin.
>
> So what am I doing?  I am diving FULL blast into Python, and the
> Django frame work. Major Python shops?  Google, yahoo, and youtube.
> Yes, I'll still use php, in fact it's Wordpress, MediaWiki, and just
> about any ecommerce application out there, In fact, every project I'm
> working on now is php based - BUT I'M AM SORRY to say, with at least
> 6+ years with php under my belt, I think it's time to move on.   Yes,
> I know cake is cool, and 5.0 rocks, but the writing is on the wall for
> a freelancer.  If you have a 9-5, as a php developer,  sit tight, SAVE
> your bucks, sink it into Google options, BUT don' t think of living
> your day job (unless you are very brave!!  The market is brutal right
> now.
>
> I lived in India for .65 cents a day, there is no way to compete with
> those costs in the USA.
>
> http://www.djangoproject.com/
>
> And some comments here:
> "Last week, I wrote about my discontent with PHP and why I chose to
> give Python a shot at becoming my new tool of choice."
> http://blog.rightbrainnetworks.com/category/development/php/
>
> - ed  YIPES!  :-)
>
> On 1/30/07, michael <lists at genoverly.net> wrote:
> >
> >         http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sad/270790501.html
> >
> >         Candidates must have strong knowledge of Perl, PHP, HTML, XML,
> >         JavaScript, CGI, Apache, MySQL, using standard, team-based web
> >         development practices.
> >
> >         Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour
> >
> >
> > They forgot to mention that you do not get all the fries you can
> > eat, have to wear a paper hat, or repeat "Do you want to super-size
> > that" all day.
> >
> > --
> >
> > michael
> >
> >
> > (this address does not accept public email)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
> -- 
> the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>




From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Tue Jan 30 23:15:19 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:15:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com><c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
	<000c01c744ee$060b2f50$07d6f4a7@ced>
Message-ID: <002a01c744ee$6b31cec0$07d6f4a7@ced>

lol, sorry scratch my last post, my spam bot ate the other corres. ;)

I highly recommend getting your SCJP ASAP. I believe JAva and .NET are the
waves of the future, so-to-say. I prefer Java because I believe it to be
more likely to be on EVERY platform. And I know it, so, heh.

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "CED" <Consult at CovenantEDesign.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable


> Interesting that you'd go with Python. I've focused on Java, only by cause
> of bias. (My Own that is. =D) Any other reasons you think Python should be
> taking up my loverly reading time?
>
> Edward JS Prevost II
> Me at EdwardPrevost.info
> www.EdwardPrevost.info
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "edward potter" <edwardpotter at gmail.com>
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
>
>
> > To all my php buds.  I hate to say this, but I have seen some recent
> > CL posts for USA based, Graduate students with (as they quote) a
> > number of years of php experience, that are billing at $10 an hour.
> >
> > What was the straw that broke the camels back?  The DIGG guys saying
> > they built their ZILLION dollar site with an overseas php programmer,
> > for $10/HR.  That was the final nail in the coffin.
> >
> > So what am I doing?  I am diving FULL blast into Python, and the
> > Django frame work. Major Python shops?  Google, yahoo, and youtube.
> > Yes, I'll still use php, in fact it's Wordpress, MediaWiki, and just
> > about any ecommerce application out there, In fact, every project I'm
> > working on now is php based - BUT I'M AM SORRY to say, with at least
> > 6+ years with php under my belt, I think it's time to move on.   Yes,
> > I know cake is cool, and 5.0 rocks, but the writing is on the wall for
> > a freelancer.  If you have a 9-5, as a php developer,  sit tight, SAVE
> > your bucks, sink it into Google options, BUT don' t think of living
> > your day job (unless you are very brave!!  The market is brutal right
> > now.
> >
> > I lived in India for .65 cents a day, there is no way to compete with
> > those costs in the USA.
> >
> > http://www.djangoproject.com/
> >
> > And some comments here:
> > "Last week, I wrote about my discontent with PHP and why I chose to
> > give Python a shot at becoming my new tool of choice."
> > http://blog.rightbrainnetworks.com/category/development/php/
> >
> > - ed  YIPES!  :-)
> >
> > On 1/30/07, michael <lists at genoverly.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >         http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sad/270790501.html
> > >
> > >         Candidates must have strong knowledge of Perl, PHP, HTML, XML,
> > >         JavaScript, CGI, Apache, MySQL, using standard, team-based web
> > >         development practices.
> > >
> > >         Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour
> > >
> > >
> > > They forgot to mention that you do not get all the fries you can
> > > eat, have to wear a paper hat, or repeat "Do you want to super-size
> > > that" all day.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > michael
> > >
> > >
> > > (this address does not accept public email)
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> > the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> > the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> > the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>




From agfische at email.smith.edu  Tue Jan 30 23:23:37 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:23:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP addition and leading zeros
Message-ID: <F3514DA8-2825-458E-961A-C0D7A8CBDED7@email.smith.edu>

I am retrieving a four digit value from a mysql db.  It is an  
unsigned zerofill field so there are leading zeros.

I add 0001 to the value.  However, I find that I lose my leading  
zeros, which I want to keep.  I also tried incrementing the value but  
that produces the same result.

Any suggestions for how to keep the leading zeros?

Thanks,

-Aaron



From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Tue Jan 30 23:32:20 2007
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:32:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP addition and leading zeros
In-Reply-To: <F3514DA8-2825-458E-961A-C0D7A8CBDED7@email.smith.edu>
References: <F3514DA8-2825-458E-961A-C0D7A8CBDED7@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <mailman.7.1363003651.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 11:23 PM 1/30/2007, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>I am retrieving a four digit value from a mysql db.  It is an
>unsigned zerofill field so there are leading zeros.
>
>I add 0001 to the value.  However, I find that I lose my leading
>zeros, which I want to keep.  I also tried incrementing the value but
>that produces the same result.

Use the sprintf() function, <http://www.php.net/sprintf>, to put the 
leading zeros back into the string:

$num = 1;
$num_leading_zeros = sprintf("%04d",$num);
echo $num . ' ----- ' . $num_leading_zeros;

Ken 



From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 30 23:36:52 2007
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:36:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <000c01c744ee$060b2f50$07d6f4a7@ced>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>
	<000c01c744ee$060b2f50$07d6f4a7@ced>
Message-ID: <c5949a380701302036y33d1e52aldcd156a6c9e19ec7@mail.gmail.com>

I think the Google juggernaut seems to be a compelling factor.

They're investing very heavy in the whole python craze - I figure they
know what's hot or not, they have a zillion PhD's in CompSci roaming
the halls there, and it's kinda of a fun language to play with too.

I pretty much have php under control at this point, ready to dive into
something new and exercise the brain a bit.  ouch!

:-) ed

On 1/30/07, CED <Consult at covenantedesign.com> wrote:
> Interesting that you'd go with Python. I've focused on Java, only by cause
> of bias. (My Own that is. =D) Any other reasons you think Python should be
> taking up my loverly reading time?
>
> Edward JS Prevost II
> Me at EdwardPrevost.info
> www.EdwardPrevost.info
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "edward potter" <edwardpotter at gmail.com>
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
>
>
> > To all my php buds.  I hate to say this, but I have seen some recent
> > CL posts for USA based, Graduate students with (as they quote) a
> > number of years of php experience, that are billing at $10 an hour.
> >
> > What was the straw that broke the camels back?  The DIGG guys saying
> > they built their ZILLION dollar site with an overseas php programmer,
> > for $10/HR.  That was the final nail in the coffin.
> >
> > So what am I doing?  I am diving FULL blast into Python, and the
> > Django frame work. Major Python shops?  Google, yahoo, and youtube.
> > Yes, I'll still use php, in fact it's Wordpress, MediaWiki, and just
> > about any ecommerce application out there, In fact, every project I'm
> > working on now is php based - BUT I'M AM SORRY to say, with at least
> > 6+ years with php under my belt, I think it's time to move on.   Yes,
> > I know cake is cool, and 5.0 rocks, but the writing is on the wall for
> > a freelancer.  If you have a 9-5, as a php developer,  sit tight, SAVE
> > your bucks, sink it into Google options, BUT don' t think of living
> > your day job (unless you are very brave!!  The market is brutal right
> > now.
> >
> > I lived in India for .65 cents a day, there is no way to compete with
> > those costs in the USA.
> >
> > http://www.djangoproject.com/
> >
> > And some comments here:
> > "Last week, I wrote about my discontent with PHP and why I chose to
> > give Python a shot at becoming my new tool of choice."
> > http://blog.rightbrainnetworks.com/category/development/php/
> >
> > - ed  YIPES!  :-)
> >
> > On 1/30/07, michael <lists at genoverly.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >         http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sad/270790501.html
> > >
> > >         Candidates must have strong knowledge of Perl, PHP, HTML, XML,
> > >         JavaScript, CGI, Apache, MySQL, using standard, team-based web
> > >         development practices.
> > >
> > >         Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour
> > >
> > >
> > > They forgot to mention that you do not get all the fries you can
> > > eat, have to wear a paper hat, or repeat "Do you want to super-size
> > > that" all day.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > michael
> > >
> > >
> > > (this address does not accept public email)
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
> > the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
> > the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
> > the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com
the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com
the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/86842405 at N00/
the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20


From arzala at gmail.com  Wed Jan 31 00:09:09 2007
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:39:09 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <200701311039.09633.arzala@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 31 January 2007 05:20, michael wrote:
> 	http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sad/270790501.html
>
> 	Candidates must have strong knowledge of Perl, PHP, HTML, XML,
> 	JavaScript, CGI, Apache, MySQL, using standard, team-based web
> 	development practices.
>
> 	Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour

They have used words "strong knowledge" in their requirements. Hence for this 
kind of requirements, 7$ to 10$ is low even for outsourcing of work to Indian 
sub-continent. Typical outsourcing rates for PHP starts from 10$ and 
generally ends around 20$ to 25$ depending upon expertise in number of  
areas.

-- 
Anirudh Zala
(Building standards)

>
>
> They forgot to mention that you do not get all the fries you can
> eat, have to wear a paper hat, or repeat "Do you want to super-size
> that" all day.


From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Jan 31 00:19:56 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:19:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <D95EF492-3108-4442-B75B-5C2227A3CBC5@gubavision.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<f0ddf1540701301555x7f9d633ckc00804bc950a4148@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800701301558s7d49d5b6y78713b1b76ba9efb@mail.gmail.com>
	<D95EF492-3108-4442-B75B-5C2227A3CBC5@gubavision.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c1e5d5a635fb@[192.168.1.102]>

At 7:28 PM -0500 1/30/07, Paul wrote:
>Right now there are 20 plus applicants from 3rd world nations with 
>experience applying.   Welcome to the new world order.  Do you here 
>the sucking sound Ross.

I think most here would be surprised at what some programmers will 
work for. As for myself, there's been more than a few times I wish I 
could have made $10 per hour on a project.

Certainly, I've made better wages, but from my perspective things are 
getting pretty brutal.

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From anthony at adcl.biz  Wed Jan 31 03:12:19 2007
From: anthony at adcl.biz (Anthony Papillion)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 02:12:19 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <001001c7450f$87f67350$6501a8c0@ISIS>

<snip>
>http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sad/270790501.html
>
>Candidates must have strong knowledge of Perl, PHP, HTML, XML,
>JavaScript, CGI, Apache, MySQL, using standard, team-based web
>development practices.
>
>Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour

Wow! I'm all the way out in the boonies of Oklahoma and this would be chickenfeed here. This has to be a typo.

Anthony

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070131/8be55f0a/attachment.html>

From ken at secdat.com  Wed Jan 31 07:09:14 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 07:09:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A001DD9B@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
References: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A001DD9B@greenmonster.supercoups.local>
Message-ID: <45C086EA.3000303@secdat.com>

Timothy Boyden wrote:
> Yeah this is exactly what I was talking about a couple months back when
> there was a discussion on the going rate for PHP programmers.
>
> I mean obviously they're not looking for an experienced PHP programmer
> (at least they shouldn't be at that rate, especially in New York City)
> they're just looking for a marketing intern that has some PHP and web
> design experience, but I'm finding it to be extremely hard to do PHP
> consulting work because there is people that will actually do it at that
> kind of hourly rate and potential employers hear this and refuse to pay
> more to the point that it is insulting to hear their low-ball number. At
> $7 - $10 an hour, what's the incentive to work hard at learning and
> staying up to date on programming languages or other IT skills?
>   

It comes back to the fact that you are much better off selling results 
than skills.

> It's part of the reason why I won't do just programming and do mostly
> hardware IT consulting.
>
> -Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:58 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
>
> Wow that is just amazing pretty funny that they would request that lol
> --
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>   

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070131/92243f2c/attachment.vcf>

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Jan 31 07:51:27 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 07:51:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701310451v117c350epd8087ce9f8b12b8b@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/30/07, michael <lists at genoverly.net> wrote:
>
>         Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour
>
>

Forget Python, go take acting lessons. At least then you could get a
job as a waiter and earn tips.


From ken at secdat.com  Wed Jan 31 08:06:46 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:06:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701310451v117c350epd8087ce9f8b12b8b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>
	<b76252690701310451v117c350epd8087ce9f8b12b8b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45C09466.3010107@secdat.com>

csnyder wrote:
> On 1/30/07, michael <lists at genoverly.net> wrote:
>>
>>         Salary: $7.00 to $10.00 per hour
>>
>>
>
> Forget Python, go take acting lessons. At least then you could get a
> job as a waiter and earn tips.

LOL!

> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ken.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 273 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070131/d66b4709/attachment.vcf>

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Jan 31 08:19:48 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:19:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Safest and best way to get the referer
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701291618r2f4caf65pbd4f4196fbea0579@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800701291618r2f4caf65pbd4f4196fbea0579@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701310519q270c1439of2376567e22b1559@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/29/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I know that HTTP_REFERER is not always accurate or even set.  There
> are also ways for people to fake that value.  I tend not to rely on
> that much however what i need to do is this.
>
> We have a file called spy.php that will return data to the browser if
> the sitekey is found in our database.  This data is to be used by
> members so they can show statistics on their site.  However to be sure
> that it was the correct sitekey i was also checking the referer domain
> against the domain stored in the database.  Is there a better way to
> do this?  I do not want someone to be able to display the stats for
> another site on theirs.
>
> Is there a way to do this or should i just base it on the sitekey and
> if it is valid return the stats for that particular site.  The sitekey
> is an md5 hash.
>

It's rare for a browser to send broken referers, but yeah, there's
nothing to stop another server from calling spy.php with a spoofed
referer and then doing whatever with the result. You might try to
notice if the same client IP makes a number of requests using
different sitekeys...

There probably isn't much you can do that would be worth the time it
took to implement. After all, even with perfect security on the
script, the numbers are still out there in public, ready to be
copy-and-pasted into a spreadsheet every morning.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From pyurt at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 31 09:01:45 2007
From: pyurt at yahoo.com (P Yurt)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:01:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Safest and best way to get the referer
Message-ID: <252845.39579.qm@web52209.mail.yahoo.com>

What is spy.php? 

Explore the Evolving Web 
www.2.0websites.com  
Paul Yurt, Publisher 
paul(@)2.0websites.com 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of csnyder
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:20 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Safest and best way to get the referer

On 1/29/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I know that HTTP_REFERER is not always accurate or even set. 
There
> are also ways for people to fake that value.  I tend not to
rely on
> that much however what i need to do is this.
>
> We have a file called spy.php that will return data to the
browser if
> the sitekey is found in our database.  This data is to be used
by
> members so they can show statistics on their site.  However to
be sure
> that it was the correct sitekey i was also checking the
referer domain
> against the domain stored in the database.  Is there a better
way to
> do this?  I do not want someone to be able to display the
stats for
> another site on theirs.
>
> Is there a way to do this or should i just base it on the
sitekey and
> if it is valid return the stats for that particular site.  The
sitekey
> is an md5 hash.
>

It's rare for a browser to send broken referers, but yeah,
there's
nothing to stop another server from calling spy.php with a
spoofed
referer and then doing whatever with the result. You might try
to
notice if the same client IP makes a number of requests using
different sitekeys...

There probably isn't much you can do that would be worth the
time it
took to implement. After all, even with perfect security on the
script, the numbers are still out there in public, ready to be
copy-and-pasted into a spreadsheet every morning.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From agfische at email.smith.edu  Wed Jan 31 09:04:40 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:04:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP addition and leading zeros
In-Reply-To: <1170217957.684911@mscreen3.smith.edu>
References: <F3514DA8-2825-458E-961A-C0D7A8CBDED7@email.smith.edu>
	<1170217957.684911@mscreen3.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <47DC1E53-A293-4540-9157-6B67D95F7285@email.smith.edu>

sprintf() did the trick nicely, thanks Ken.

-Aaron

On Jan 30, 2007, at 11:32 PM, Ken Robinson wrote:

> At 11:23 PM 1/30/2007, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>> I am retrieving a four digit value from a mysql db.  It is an
>> unsigned zerofill field so there are leading zeros.
>>
>> I add 0001 to the value.  However, I find that I lose my leading
>> zeros, which I want to keep.  I also tried incrementing the value but
>> that produces the same result.
>
> Use the sprintf() function, <http://www.php.net/sprintf>, to put  
> the leading zeros back into the string:
>
> $num = 1;
> $num_leading_zeros = sprintf("%04d",$num);
> echo $num . ' ----- ' . $num_leading_zeros;
>



From agfische at email.smith.edu  Wed Jan 31 09:37:20 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:37:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] GD and image resizing
Message-ID: <092EF1F7-4AE3-4F8A-B30B-9A0D5F69113C@email.smith.edu>

I'm working with GD for the first time and need to receive uploaded  
images (that part is done), determine if they are vertical or  
horizontal orientation and then resize them appropriately given a max  
length or width.

I'm listening to Jeff's GD presentation now and searching the  
archives.   I remember one or two scripts that were posted a while  
back that do roughly what I am describing.

I'm under severe time constraints to have a project completed so if  
someone has some GD resize stuff to help me get going I would be most  
appreciative.  Tips/pointers are also helpful.

Thanks!

-Aaron



From agfische at email.smith.edu  Wed Jan 31 10:03:11 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:03:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] GD and image resizing
In-Reply-To: <092EF1F7-4AE3-4F8A-B30B-9A0D5F69113C@email.smith.edu>
References: <092EF1F7-4AE3-4F8A-B30B-9A0D5F69113C@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <5878A6FE-907D-4965-9C25-269C0940390D@email.smith.edu>

What I meant to say is that I've been searching the archives but  
haven't had success in finding the scripts that were posted a while ago.

On Jan 31, 2007, at 9:37 AM, Aaron Fischer wrote:

> I'm working with GD for the first time and need to receive uploaded  
> images (that part is done), determine if they are vertical or  
> horizontal orientation and then resize them appropriately given a  
> max length or width.
>
> I'm listening to Jeff's GD presentation now and searching the  
> archives.   I remember one or two scripts that were posted a while  
> back that do roughly what I am describing.
>
> I'm under severe time constraints to have a project completed so if  
> someone has some GD resize stuff to help me get going I would be  
> most appreciative.  Tips/pointers are also helpful.
>



From dcech at phpwerx.net  Wed Jan 31 10:28:13 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:28:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] GD and image resizing
In-Reply-To: <5878A6FE-907D-4965-9C25-269C0940390D@email.smith.edu>
References: <092EF1F7-4AE3-4F8A-B30B-9A0D5F69113C@email.smith.edu>
	<5878A6FE-907D-4965-9C25-269C0940390D@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <45C0B58D.7010504@phpwerx.net>

Aaron Fischer wrote:
> What I meant to say is that I've been searching the archives but haven't
> had success in finding the scripts that were posted a while ago.

Guess you didn't try that hard ;)

Try this to get you started:

http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2007-January/020795.html

Dan

> On Jan 31, 2007, at 9:37 AM, Aaron Fischer wrote:
> 
>> I'm working with GD for the first time and need to receive uploaded
>> images (that part is done), determine if they are vertical or
>> horizontal orientation and then resize them appropriately given a max
>> length or width.
>>
>> I'm listening to Jeff's GD presentation now and searching the
>> archives.   I remember one or two scripts that were posted a while
>> back that do roughly what I am describing.
>>
>> I'm under severe time constraints to have a project completed so if
>> someone has some GD resize stuff to help me get going I would be most
>> appreciative.  Tips/pointers are also helpful.


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Wed Jan 31 10:31:47 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:31:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] GD and image resizing
In-Reply-To: <45C0B58D.7010504@phpwerx.net>
References: <092EF1F7-4AE3-4F8A-B30B-9A0D5F69113C@email.smith.edu>
	<5878A6FE-907D-4965-9C25-269C0940390D@email.smith.edu>
	<45C0B58D.7010504@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <EEF269B8-D76A-4807-9DF0-F0AC4C2431D9@email.smith.edu>

I think the stress of my scary supervisor is clouding my thinking.   
=)  Thanks Dan.

-Aaron

On Jan 31, 2007, at 10:28 AM, Dan Cech wrote:

> Aaron Fischer wrote:
>> What I meant to say is that I've been searching the archives but  
>> haven't
>> had success in finding the scripts that were posted a while ago.
>
> Guess you didn't try that hard ;)
>
> Try this to get you started:
>
> http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2007-January/020795.html
>
> Dan
>
>> On Jan 31, 2007, at 9:37 AM, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>>
>>> I'm working with GD for the first time and need to receive uploaded
>>> images (that part is done), determine if they are vertical or
>>> horizontal orientation and then resize them appropriately given a  
>>> max
>>> length or width.
>>>
>>> I'm listening to Jeff's GD presentation now and searching the
>>> archives.   I remember one or two scripts that were posted a while
>>> back that do roughly what I am describing.
>>>
>>> I'm under severe time constraints to have a project completed so if
>>> someone has some GD resize stuff to help me get going I would be  
>>> most
>>> appreciative.  Tips/pointers are also helpful.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Jan 31 11:01:59 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:01:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Safest and best way to get the referer
In-Reply-To: <252845.39579.qm@web52209.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <252845.39579.qm@web52209.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690701310801t59a97ce3y600f3d98907c1a7d@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/31/07, P Yurt <pyurt at yahoo.com> wrote:
> What is spy.php?

The script in question, according to the original post.


From codebowl at gmail.com  Wed Jan 31 11:32:38 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:32:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Safest and best way to get the referer
In-Reply-To: <b76252690701310801t59a97ce3y600f3d98907c1a7d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <252845.39579.qm@web52209.mail.yahoo.com>
	<b76252690701310801t59a97ce3y600f3d98907c1a7d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701310832q12ccfbd0h68f13ccf638d4d03@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks guys,

I figured as much ;)

Currently i have it so that every site has a site key, when they pass
that into the spy.php it will get the stored domain from the db and
return results only for that domain.

I was trying to take it a step furthur and make sure the request was
coming from the stored domain so that i couldnt call spy.php with say
microsoft's key and get their results.

I figure though we are talking about browser stats who would want to
put another sites stats on their site :D

Thanks Again,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From rolan at omnistep.com  Wed Jan 31 11:39:48 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:39:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Safest and best way to get the referer
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800701291618r2f4caf65pbd4f4196fbea0579@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800701291618r2f4caf65pbd4f4196fbea0579@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45C0C654.4000808@omnistep.com>

Relying on the integrity of HTTP_REFERER is simply a bad idea.
End user tools such as the RefControl plugin for Firefox make it easy 
for anyone to spoof the referer.

I am aware of a handful of news subscription websites (which shall not 
be listed here) that restrict their content to paying customers. 
However, to boost rankings in the search engines, the websites make a 
page of premium content available through news aggregators like 
news.google.com. As a result, the websites gain free publicity and allow 
users to sample one article. Clicking any deeper results in redirection 
to a subscription page. How is this done? HTTP_REFERER based 
authentication. Set one's referer to "news.google.com"  and voila... 
free premium access to the entire website. If anyone asks, you didn't 
hear this from me :)

The HTTP_REFERER is a poor source for authentication and should not be 
used for such purposes.

~Rolan

Joseph Crawford wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I know that HTTP_REFERER is not always accurate or even set.  There
> are also ways for people to fake that value.  I tend not to rely on
> that much however what i need to do is this.
>
> We have a file called spy.php that will return data to the browser if
> the sitekey is found in our database.  This data is to be used by
> members so they can show statistics on their site.  However to be sure
> that it was the correct sitekey i was also checking the referer domain
> against the domain stored in the database.  Is there a better way to
> do this?  I do not want someone to be able to display the stats for
> another site on theirs.
>
> Is there a way to do this or should i just base it on the sitekey and
> if it is valid return the stats for that particular site.  The sitekey
> is an md5 hash.
>
> Thanks,


From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Jan 31 12:24:36 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:24:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] GD and image resizing
In-Reply-To: <092EF1F7-4AE3-4F8A-B30B-9A0D5F69113C@email.smith.edu>
References: <092EF1F7-4AE3-4F8A-B30B-9A0D5F69113C@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <p0624080fc1e680998cca@[192.168.1.102]>

At 9:37 AM -0500 1/31/07, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>I'm working with GD for the first time and need to receive uploaded 
>images (that part is done), determine if they are vertical or 
>horizontal orientation and then resize them appropriately given a 
>max length or width.
>
>I'm listening to Jeff's GD presentation now and searching the 
>archives.   I remember one or two scripts that were posted a while 
>back that do roughly what I am describing.
>
>I'm under severe time constraints to have a project completed so if 
>someone has some GD resize stuff to help me get going I would be 
>most appreciative.  Tips/pointers are also helpful.
>
>Thanks!
>
>-Aaron

-Aaron:

If you already know the picture name and type, this will work.

<?php
// The file
$filename = 'test.jpg';
$outfilename = "/path/picture.jpg";

// Set a maximum height and width
$width = 200;
$height = 200;

// Get new dimensions
list($width_orig, $height_orig) = getimagesize($filename);

if ($width && ($width_orig < $height_orig))
   {
    $width = ($height / $height_orig) * $width_orig;
   }
else
   {
    $height = ($width / $width_orig) * $height_orig;
   }

// Resample
$image_p = imagecreatetruecolor($width, $height);
$image = imagecreatefromjpeg($filename);
imagecopyresampled($image_p, $image, 0, 0, 0, 0, $width, $height,
$width_orig, $height_orig);

// Output
imagejpeg($image_p, $outfilename, 100);
?>

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jan 31 15:52:01 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:52:01 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Safest and best way to get the referer
In-Reply-To: <45C0C654.4000808@omnistep.com>
References: <8d9a42800701291618r2f4caf65pbd4f4196fbea0579@mail.gmail.com>
	<45C0C654.4000808@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <8821-42437@sneakemail.com>

Rolan Yang rolan-at-omnistep.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> Relying on the integrity of HTTP_REFERER is simply a bad idea.
> End user tools such as the RefControl plugin for Firefox make it easy 
> for anyone to spoof the referer.
>
> I am aware of a handful of news subscription websites (which shall not 
> be listed here) that restrict their content to paying customers. 
> However, to boost rankings in the search engines, the websites make a 
> page of premium content available through news aggregators like 
> news.google.com. As a result, the websites gain free publicity and 
> allow users to sample one article. Clicking any deeper results in 
> redirection to a subscription page. How is this done? HTTP_REFERER 
> based authentication. Set one's referer to "news.google.com"  and 
> voila... free premium access to the entire website. If anyone asks, 
> you didn't hear this from me :)
>
> The HTTP_REFERER is a poor source for authentication and should not be 
> used for such purposes.
>
> ~Rolan
>
> Joseph Crawford wrote:
>
>> Guys,
>>
>> I know that HTTP_REFERER is not always accurate or even set.  There
>> are also ways for people to fake that value.  I tend not to rely on
>> that much however what i need to do is this.
>>
>> We have a file called spy.php that will return data to the browser if
>> the sitekey is found in our database.  This data is to be used by
>> members so they can show statistics on their site.  However to be sure
>> that it was the correct sitekey i was also checking the referer domain
>> against the domain stored in the database.  Is there a better way to
>> do this?  I do not want someone to be able to display the stats for
>> another site on theirs.
>>
>> Is there a way to do this or should i just base it on the sitekey and
>> if it is valid return the stats for that particular site.  The sitekey
>> is an md5 hash.
>>
>> Thanks,
>

I don't know, Rolan. If they desire to block people who haven't been 
referred by news.google.com and who don't know how to spoof the 
referrer,  then they have a pretty good solution in place. Everything's 
relative?

(I overheard a conversation in a restaurant about the Theory of 
Relativity. Grandma was with the grown up kids and overhears a mention 
of Einstein. So she says "I never knew what the big deal was with 
Einstein and relativity. It seems pretty basic to me. If you look at 
something, it might seem small. But if you compare it to a pea it's big. 
So it's relative. I could have told you that. What makes Einstein so 
special?"




From codebowl at gmail.com  Wed Jan 31 16:21:48 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:21:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache Headers and PHP
Message-ID: <8d9a42800701311321k7c2dc2c5tfd93ee00bc093267@mail.gmail.com>

Guys,

Is there an alternative to apache_request_headers().  I need to get
the Authorization and X-WSSE headers and they are not in any of the
global variables.  I believe my host has disabled this function for
some reason.

Thanks,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From robwilkens at gmail.com  Wed Jan 31 16:47:39 2007
From: robwilkens at gmail.com (Rob Wilkens)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:47:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] "Appropriate use of list" - link broken
Message-ID: <ead24f050701311347s4c545473rd91d2232c0af5428@mail.gmail.com>

Hi .

I'm new here (though I recognize one or two familiar names from
another list i'm on - LIPHP) --

When I subscribed to the list, there was a link to the
Charter/Appropriate Use Policy for the list, but the link was broken.
I thought someone who manages the list server might want to know.
>From memory, I think the link was http://www.nyphp.org/charter - I
received back a 404 Not found error.

A little about me as long as i'm writing (relating to PHP):  I learned
PHP because I was home sick from work (for 5 years and counting) and
when Tom Melendez started the LIPHP group on Long Island, after seeing
repeated announcements for his group on another server i'm subscribed
to (LILUG), I finally decided to see what it was about and was excited
to see the language was just like C in many ways, except it was being
used for the web (primarily).  C was a language I liked because when I
graduated in 1996 I had taken a few classes in C(including one on
Linux Kernel Hacking, which landed me a job doing UNIX kernel hacking
for a few years).  Anyway, I've put it off for a long time, and
finally decided to formalize my knowledge of PHP by taking a college
class on it at Farmingdale State (on Long Island), which Tom was
supposed to be teaching, but his section of the class had little
interest and was cancelled.  My professor is on this mailing list too.

In addition to the class, I currently have a paying PHP project (and
C#, I'll explain in a second), which i'm doing with my one and only
customer : Anritsu Company.  My project is a C# client (Windows Forms)
which talks to a PHP-script on the linux server, and manages contacts
in a heirarchy (read: tree structure) -- i.e. so my customer knows who
works for who within their customer's companies (i.e. So they can
follow the "food chain" of their customers.)  I talk to my server in a
pseudo-xml structure.  Requests from client to server come in
$_POST["variable"], and responses are loosely xml (may not have
propper xml headers, etc. and no documented stylesheets or data
definitions and the like.)  I've been thinking of making a public demo
of the project, but I've been having difficulty finding the time to
set up a test database on an isolated server on the net.

I'm also participating in the Zend Certification study group by LIPHP
and am hoping to have a Zend Certification by the end of February or
March (I'm passing the practice tests now.)

Well, I've been talking about myself here wayyyy to long, at least now
it's out of my system.  In short: I'm still learning PHP and hope I
can continue to learn from you all too.  I'm not hoping to be (at this
time) an ace web developer, I'm more of a hobbyist who is actually
getting paid to do some PHP.  I'll try to stay out of the way when I
realize I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm not here looking for
trouble.

-Rob
p.s. I attended (paid my own way) the NYPHP Conference last year, but
I walked out after the first talk (Rasmus Lerdorf?).  Had nothing to
do with the quality of the conference, I was just in a different place
in life then and it wasn't right for me.  Were the same conference
held today, trust me, I'd stay -- I actually stayed through the whole
Microsoft Windows Vista Launch celebration at the Nokia Theater this
past Monday, not quite the same thing but I handled myself well and
lasted a few hours.


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Wed Jan 31 16:52:32 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:52:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] "Appropriate use of list" - link broken
In-Reply-To: <ead24f050701311347s4c545473rd91d2232c0af5428@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ead24f050701311347s4c545473rd91d2232c0af5428@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4329FD38-C9C6-443A-82EC-63693D6D1A49@email.smith.edu>

Thanks for the thoughtful intro Rob, welcome to the list.

-Aaron


On Jan 31, 2007, at 4:47 PM, Rob Wilkens wrote:

> Hi .
>
> I'm new here (though I recognize one or two familiar names from
> another list i'm on - LIPHP) --
>
> A little about me as long as i'm writing (relating to PHP):  I learned
> PHP because I was home sick from work (for 5 years and counting) and
> when Tom Melendez started the LIPHP group on Long Island, after seeing
> repeated announcements for his group on another server i'm subscribed
> to (LILUG), I finally decided to see what it was about and was excited
> to see the language was just like C in many ways, except it was being
> used for the web (primarily).  C was a language I liked because when I
> graduated in 1996 I had taken a few classes in C(including one on
> Linux Kernel Hacking, which landed me a job doing UNIX kernel hacking
> for a few years).  Anyway, I've put it off for a long time, and
> finally decided to formalize my knowledge of PHP


From ben at projectskyline.com  Wed Jan 31 17:01:07 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:01:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] "Appropriate use of list" - link broken
References: <ead24f050701311347s4c545473rd91d2232c0af5428@mail.gmail.com>
	<4329FD38-C9C6-443A-82EC-63693D6D1A49@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <00a001c74583$4f632b40$6401a8c0@gamebox>

Welcome to the list ... I'm also a freelancer, ... best of luck with the 
project!

- Ben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Fischer" <agfische at email.smith.edu>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] [OT] "Appropriate use of list" - link broken


> Thanks for the thoughtful intro Rob, welcome to the list.
>
> -Aaron
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2007, at 4:47 PM, Rob Wilkens wrote:
>
>> Hi .
>>
>> I'm new here (though I recognize one or two familiar names from
>> another list i'm on - LIPHP) --
>>
>> A little about me as long as i'm writing (relating to PHP):  I learned
>> PHP because I was home sick from work (for 5 years and counting) and
>> when Tom Melendez started the LIPHP group on Long Island, after seeing
>> repeated announcements for his group on another server i'm subscribed
>> to (LILUG), I finally decided to see what it was about and was excited
>> to see the language was just like C in many ways, except it was being
>> used for the web (primarily).  C was a language I liked because when I
>> graduated in 1996 I had taken a few classes in C(including one on
>> Linux Kernel Hacking, which landed me a job doing UNIX kernel hacking
>> for a few years).  Anyway, I've put it off for a long time, and
>> finally decided to formalize my knowledge of PHP
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 



From agfische at email.smith.edu  Wed Jan 31 17:48:52 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:48:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] GD and image resizing
In-Reply-To: <p0624080fc1e680998cca@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <092EF1F7-4AE3-4F8A-B30B-9A0D5F69113C@email.smith.edu>
	<p0624080fc1e680998cca@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <98F6E865-8428-4C3B-88AC-51A6FB367376@email.smith.edu>

Thanks Tedd and Dan.  This code and the archives link helped me  
understand what I needed to do.  I'm off and running and everything  
is working great.  Much appreciated!!

-Aaron	

On Jan 31, 2007, at 12:24 PM, tedd wrote:

> At 9:37 AM -0500 1/31/07, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>>
>> I'm under severe time constraints to have a project completed so  
>> if someone has some GD resize stuff to help me get going I would  
>> be most appreciative.  Tips/pointers are also helpful.
>

> If you already know the picture name and type, this will work.
>
> <?php
> // The file
> $filename = 'test.jpg';
> $outfilename = "/path/picture.jpg";
>
> // Set a maximum height and width
> $width = 200;
> $height = 200;
>
> // Get new dimensions
> list($width_orig, $height_orig) = getimagesize($filename);
>
> if ($width && ($width_orig < $height_orig))
>   {
>    $width = ($height / $height_orig) * $width_orig;
>   }
> else
>   {
>    $height = ($width / $width_orig) * $height_orig;
>   }
>
> // Resample
> $image_p = imagecreatetruecolor($width, $height);
> $image = imagecreatefromjpeg($filename);
> imagecopyresampled($image_p, $image, 0, 0, 0, 0, $width, $height,
> $width_orig, $height_orig);
>
> // Output
> imagejpeg($image_p, $outfilename, 100);
> ?>
>



From paul at devonianfarm.com  Wed Jan 31 18:50:45 2007
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul Houle)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:50:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] unbelievable
In-Reply-To: <c5949a380701301919p15991ab9t96c4b72e103b9214@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070130184955.408444d5@dt.genoverly.com>	<c5949a380701301845l2344971dv5d19c0cc042f3024@mail.gmail.com>	<A03C3304-4050-43C2-BAD8-30F3FEC43E6A@email.smith.edu>	<c5949a380701301903g7d7a1f6bh4dd03c5a4300e4b4@mail.gmail.com>	<B72A11B8-6633-4D70-8626-C125A17B0407@email.smith.edu>
	<c5949a380701301919p15991ab9t96c4b72e103b9214@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45C12B55.6070500@devonianfarm.com>

edward potter wrote:
> Java seems to have a number of fits and starts over the  last 10
> years, but hanging on. Python can of course be used for all things web
> based, and can also create full blown applications too.  (bittorrent
> for one), I'm still just a beginner.
    Java is my language of choice for jobs that aren't a good fit for 
PHP.  Java is fast for numeric and symbol processing work -- better than 
half the speed of FORTRAN or C,  with the software engineering 
advantages of objects,  garbage collection and all that.

    Last summer I wrote a sudoku solver in Java -- the program can end 
up trying a large number of combinations if the puzzle is difficult,  so 
I wanted it to be in a language faster than PHP.

    My son got two copies of "Chutes and Ladders" for Christmas,  so 
I've been interested in writing a Java program that plays a few billion 
games and reports on the statistics.

    I'm not a big fan of Python.  I really got into JPython around 
1999,  but after wasting half a day tracking down a program that didn't 
work right because of an invisible change in whitespace in a source file 
I got back from someone who used a different text editor,  I decided I'd 
had enough.